Post-Game Talk: I hate the Sharks goal horn

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

By the numbers: Game 62 vs. Detroit

Two huge quotes stand out to me:

"-Detroit's zone exit success didn't come because of their D-men, as only DeKeyser managed more than one successful breakout.

-Their success came at the hands of guys like Datsyuk and Helm, as Datsyuk managed three successful breakouts and turned the puck over zero times."

This is why we need a puck moving defenseman.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Very telling:





Defense, as most of us suspected, is having a lot of trouble moving the puck out of our zone. It's our exceptional forward group coming back deep and moving it out themselves.

Didn't see that you already addressed it, my mistake.

 

[Electric Eric]

Very telling:





Defense, as most of us suspected, is having a lot of trouble moving the puck out of our zone. It's our exceptional forward group coming back deep and moving it out themselves.

Just imagine, if we could get a true PMD we could really utilize our forwards speed. That's the direction I see this team headed quick and defensively responsible.

 

[InjuredChoker]

WOW

amazing that fans can do something like that in a day, whereas an entire coaching staff might have had a lot of difficulty doing it a few decades ago.

yeah, i wish wings had guy(s) doing stuff like that.

though in this game, they pretty much matched with the eye-test. among those mentioned, this stood-out for me

-Though Detroit's line of Pulkkinen-Andersson-Weiss played less at evens than their line of Miller-Glendenning-Jurco, the Andersson line was clearly better in this game, as they didn't allow a single scoring chance against, while the Glendenning line somehow finished the game with a negative scoring chance differential.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Very telling:





Defense, as most of us suspected, is having a lot of trouble moving the puck out of our zone. It's our exceptional forward group coming back deep and moving it out themselves.

How is he defining zone exit? Does he mean a defensemen passing the puck over the blue line to a forward? Skating the puck out of the zone on their own?

 

[8snake]

Just imagine, if we could get a true PMD we could really utilize our forwards speed. That's the direction I see this team headed quick and defensively responsible.

It really is the key IMO. We have a forward group built for transition hockey and we have no transition game...unless our forwards are doing the heavy lifting. I like what Marchenko is bringing yhough...I think his outlet passing is impressive and might be the most consistent on the team. If we had a couple proven bona-fide puck movers this team would be absolutely LETHAL offensively and much more dangerous 5 on 5.

 

[InjuredChoker]

How is he defining zone exit? Does he mean a defensemen passing the puck over the blue line to a forward? Skating the puck out of the zone on their own?

both.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

both.

So if a defensemen makes a good pass in the defensive zone to a forward who skates the puck out of the zone, he gets no credit for an exit even though he was the one who pulled the puck out of the corner or off of the boards, identified the open man and got the puck to him? If so, I am not sure how useful his metric is in evaluating the contributions of defensemen.

 

[Hendricks433]

So if a defensemen makes a good pass in the defensive zone to a forward who skates the puck out of the zone, he gets no credit for an exit even though he was the one who pulled the puck out of the corner or off of the boards, identified the open man and got the puck to him? If so, I am not sure how useful his metric is in evaluating the contributions of defensemen.

A few times last night Datsyuk or Helm would come back and take the puck and just skate out of the zone and dump it in or make a pass to enter the zone.

Our D have a ton of trouble doing this. It's extremely apparent watching some games.

 

[BinCookin]

So if a defensemen makes a good pass in the defensive zone to a forward who skates the puck out of the zone, he gets no credit for an exit even though he was the one who pulled the puck out of the corner or off of the boards, identified the open man and got the puck to him? If so, I am not sure how useful his metric is in evaluating the contributions of defensemen.

Our style of zone break outs are sort of based off of this strategy. So I agree, our style is to have forwards enter the defensive zone to "break out".

I did notice when scoring our D men, that very rarely did the D-man from behind the net, pass the puck well to someone infront of the blue line. These attempts usually result in a tip, bank along the boards or icing. We are not good at the stretch pass. Its usually why we dont try it. I am sure Babcock has us working on what we do well.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

So if a defensemen makes a good pass in the defensive zone to a forward who skates the puck out of the zone, he gets no credit for an exit even though he was the one who pulled the puck out of the corner or off of the boards, identified the open man and got the puck to him? If so, I am not sure how useful his metric is in evaluating the contributions of defensemen.

If we can compare it with other teams then the metric has context and gives us a better picture.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Our style of zone break outs are sort of based off of this strategy. So I agree, our style is to have forwards enter the defensive zone to "break out".

I did notice when scoring our D men, that very rarely did the D-man from behind the net, pass the puck well to someone infront of the blue line. These attempts usually result in a tip, bank along the boards or icing. We are not good at the stretch pass. Its usually why we dont try it. I am sure Babcock has us working on what we do well.

I know the exact play of which you speak. I think of it as Smith's check-down option (the guy planted along the boards at the redline trying to tip the puck into the offensive zone without generating an icing call). Babcock loves planting a guy out there and I absolutely hate it.

In my opinion, the stretch pass is more of a re-group option as opposed to a break-out option. If the puck is deep in our defensive zone under five-man pressure, I do not expect our defensemen to pass the puck from deep in our end out over the blue line. That is not a high percentage play even for the best NHL defensemen.

I think the neutral zone, re-groups and line changes is where we would really notice the benefits of a good PMD.

 

[BinCookin]

I know the exact play of which you speak. I think of it as Smith's check-down option (the guy planted along the boards at the redline trying to tip the puck into the offensive zone without generating an icing call). Babcock loves planting a guy out there and I absolutely hate it.

In my opinion, the stretch pass is more of a re-group option as opposed to a break-out option. If the puck is deep in our defensive zone under five-man pressure, I do not expect our defensemen to pass the puck from deep in our end out over the blue line. That is not a high percentage play even for the best NHL defensemen.

I think the neutral zone, re-groups and line changes is where we would really notice the benefits of a good PMD.

I agree. I should have pointed out that stretch pass expert I can think of is Victor Hedman. There are very few. And I like the current system Detroit uses. I think the short passes with support lower turnovers, and allow for a very solid defensive game. It can make transition harder on our forwards. But I do not see the same kind of support for SJ last game as an example.

Overall I am pretty happy with our defensive play. But inaccurate passing (to skate instead of tape etc) is also a key trait that I notice Kronwall is much better than many of our other D-men at pulling off.

PS sounds like you might want to do a SBDSS score on Sat at 3pm LOL (see the other thread)

 

[redwingsphan]

I know the exact play of which you speak. I think of it as Smith's check-down option (the guy planted along the boards at the redline trying to tip the puck into the offensive zone without generating an icing call). Babcock loves planting a guy out there and I absolutely hate it.

In my opinion, the stretch pass is more of a re-group option as opposed to a break-out option. If the puck is deep in our defensive zone under five-man pressure, I do not expect our defensemen to pass the puck from deep in our end out over the blue line. That is not a high percentage play even for the best NHL defensemen.

I think the neutral zone, re-groups and line changes is where we would really notice the benefits of a good PMD.

I also hate that play. The only time it is a benefit is if they need a change.

I also agree with you on the breakout philosophy as a whole. It isn't very good to try to pass from below the dots into the neutral zone. Those passes are intercepted often and then there are guys going the wrong way.

How a pmd would help IMO is by helping to relieve pressure when the puck gets behind the d on dumps and moving it d to d in all zones, as BC said. And example is on the Sharks 1st goal. Ericcson had an open forward at the bottom of the circle to the left of howie. Instead he rimmed a backhand the other way that was eventually possessed by the Sharks.

 

[8snake]

The stretch pass is a non-issue because even when Detroit was full of puck moving d-men it was never a huge part of the Wings philosophy. Even going back to the mid-90's Detroit has never been overly reliant on long bombs coming out of their own zone...mostly because the system is structured so the forwards aren't flying the zone or cheating way up ice. The value of a puck mover to this current team is relieving pressure, limiting the effectiveness of an aggressive forecheck and maintaining possession with the ability to counter a forecheck and create outnumbered chances going the other way.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The stretch pass is a non-issue because even when Detroit was full of puck moving d-men it was never a huge part of the Wings philosophy. Even going back to the mid-90's Detroit has never been overly reliant on long bombs coming out of their own zone...mostly because the system is structured so the forwards aren't flying the zone or cheating way up ice. The value of a puck mover to this current team is relieving pressure, limiting the effectiveness of an aggressive forecheck and maintaining possession with the ability to counter a forecheck and create outnumbered chances going the other way.

While this is true they did use the stretch a couple times a game almost like football teams taking a shot whether they care if it only works a 1/3 of the time or less because it moves the safeties around. Keep in mind the two line pass also was still around back then. But they did use it if only to keep the D-man honest in terms of their aggressiveness and make sure other teams gave them their middle out.

Yes it was never a staple, but it wasn't completely gone either. I like the structure, but there is something to be said about occasionally backing the other team off, it might not work at a high percentage but we need to do it enough to make them think about it and we really don't anymore.

 

[Dynheart]

Honestly, this was the road trip (Feb in general) that was going to make of break the Wings' chance at first in the division. The Habs during this stretch have a pretty easy schedule. Tampa's is somewhere in the middle. The Wings' schedule, however, was just one playoff team after playoff team. And if it wasn't a playoff team? It was a bubble team playing desperate hockey!

This was the chance for Tampa and the Habs, especially the Habs, to separate themselves from the Wings. I'm honestly pleasantly surprised that they are still keeping it close, despite the gauntlet of games this month. Just a few more tough games, and the schedule will let up a bit.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

You will only see what it's worth next week when Montreal go on their West Coast road trip. If they do well on this trip, I would say the division is gone.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Honestly, this was the road trip (Feb in general) that was going to make of break the Wings' chance at first in the division. The Habs during this stretch have a pretty easy schedule. Tampa's is somewhere in the middle. The Wings' schedule, however, was just one playoff team after playoff team. And if it wasn't a playoff team? It was a bubble team playing desperate hockey!

This was the chance for Tampa and the Habs, especially the Habs, to separate themselves from the Wings. I'm honestly pleasantly surprised that they are still keeping it close, despite the gauntlet of games this month. Just a few more tough games, and the schedule will let up a bit.

Habs have some seperation now. Of course it can disappear quickly, but it's looking more and more like it's a battle for 2nd between us and Tampa.

 

[Dynheart]

Habs have some seperation now. Of course it can disappear quickly, but it's looking more and more like it's a battle for 2nd between us and Tampa.

Yea. A win tonight only puts the Habs up by 4 points. They have been there before, however. Tampa have been there before...Detroit has been there before, all too see it taken away by a few bad games.

 

[odin1981]

Yea. A win tonight only puts the Habs up by 4 points. They have been there before, however. Tampa have been there before...Detroit has been there before, all too see it taken away by a few bad games.

Habs play a game at 7 pm tonight on HNIC. Probably gonna tune in to it though it is them vs Tor so they will probably get a W.