How long until Mcdavid takes over league lead in points?

[Nadal On Clay]

Crosby's peak was more hampered by injuries, that's a well known fact to any pens fan. Twice he was lapping the field at the half way mark. Cannot say the same for Malkin who actually had some very mediocre full seasons saved by injuries.

Your claim is simply baseless speculation. Both their career regular season PPGs and playoff PPGs, where Crosby has a similar gap, is representative of their abilities.

This all started when someone commented that they Malkin was the clear best offensive player of his era. I was saying that, unlike Crosby, Malkin had mediocre partial seasons that are ignored because he got injured.

The whole point was that their numbers speak for themselves which shows Crosby as having the superior offensive numbers. Trying to spin those numbers with talk of injuries is comical. Crosby arguably lost out more on his legacy than Malkin due to injuries.

You're contradicting yourself. Your point still doesn't stand no matter how you're moving the goal posts. Malkin never had a mediocre full season and had only one mediocre partial season, not some like you said in the quoted post.

 

[daver]

You're contradicting yourself. Your point still doesn't stand no matter how you're moving the goal posts. Malkin never had a mediocre full season and had only one mediocre partial season, not some like you said in the quoted post.

I originally said that Malkin was saved from having potentially mediocre full seasons due to his injuries.


In 2009/10, he was 23rd in PPG when he missed his first games. Came back and played thru til Feb 14 where he was T8 in PPG which is where he finished the season, in 8th. There is nothing about that season that indicates he would have been fighting for the scoring lead and he actually got better after being injured.

In 2010, 11, he was 40th in PPG after 25 games before he got injured and finished 37th. He got better after being injured.

In 2013, he was 11th in PPG after 18 games before he got injured and finished at 15th in PPG. He got worse after being injured.

In 2013/14, he was T3rd in PPG after 31 games before he got injured and finished T2. He got better after being injured.

in 2014/15 he was 3rd in PPG before he got injured and finished 7th in PPG. He got worse after being injured.

In 2015/16, he was 8th in PPG before getting injured and finished 5th in PPG. He got better after being injured.

In 2016/17, he was 2nd in PPG before getting injured and finished 4th in PPG. He got worse after being injured.


So out of seven partial seasons, four times he got better after coming back and was supposedly playing thru injuries. He was never leading the league in PPG before an injury, was only Top 5 in three of those seasons and his average PPG placing before inury was 13th, he post injury PPG placement was 11th.

 

[BruinsBtn]

We're talking about a guy who played a full 82 games last year and outscored Claude Giroux by 6 points. Let's stop acting like he's lapping the field. And with 24 minutes of playing time a night, he should be lapping the field. He's definitely crushing the eye test but you gotta do it on the scoreboard.

 

[daver]

Malkin has been more hampered by injuries than Sid, that's a fact well known to any pens fan and backed up by the average number of games missed per season.
Too much is made about Sid's concussion: while it was obviously a serious injury, it was mostly a precaution which made him not play for a long time but once he came back, you can't say he played being diminished physically because of that.
While it's well known geno has played numerous times being truly injured physically in a pure mechanic way so it was generally more impactful on his performances.

In 2009/10, Malkin was 23rd in PPG when he missed his first games. Came back and played thru til Feb 14 where he was T8 in PPG which is where he finished the season, in 8th. There is nothing about that season that indicates he would have been fighting for the scoring lead and he actually got better after being injured.

In 2010, 11, he was 40th in PPG after 25 games before he got injured and finished 37th. He got better after being injured.

In 2013, he was 11th in PPG after 18 games before he got injured and finished at 15th in PPG. He got worse after being injured.

In 2013/14, he was T3rd in PPG after 31 games before he got injured and finished 2nd. He got better after being injured.

in 2014/15 he was 3rd in PPG before he got injured and finished 7th in PPG. He got worse after being injured.

In 2015/16, he was 8th in PPG before getting injured and finished 5th in PPG. He got better after being injured.

In 2016/17, he was 2nd in PPG before getting injured and finished 4th in PPG. He got worse after being injured.


So out of seven partial seasons, four times he got better after coming back and was supposedly playing thru injuries. He was never leading the league in PPG before an injury, was only Top 5 in three of those seasons and his average PPG placing before inury was 13th, he post injury PPG placement was 11th.



In 2007/08, Crosby was 1st in PPG when he got injured and finished 2nd.

In 2010/11, Crosby was 1st (by far) in PPG when he got injured.

In 2013, Crosby was 1st in PPG (by far) when got injured.

in 2014/15, Crosby was 1st in PPG before missing time to illness and finished 1st in PPG.


Is there even a need to summarize these numbers? It is a hell of a lot more reasonable to believe that Crosby has a much more significant gap in career PPG over Malkin if not for injuries.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

I originally said that Malkin was saved from having potentially mediocre full seasons due to his injuries.


In 2009/10, he was 23rd in PPG when he missed his first games. Came back and played thru til Feb 14 where he was T8 in PPG which is where he finished the season, in 8th. There is nothing about that season that indicates he would have been fighting for the scoring lead and he actually got better after being injured.

In 2010, 11, he was 40th in PPG after 25 games before he got injured and finished 37th. He got better after being injured.

In 2013, he was 11th in PPG after 18 games before he got injured and finished at 15th in PPG. He got worse after being injured.

In 2013/14, he was T3rd in PPG after 31 games before he got injured and finished T2. He got better after being injured.

in 2014/15 he was 3rd in PPG before he got injured and finished 7th in PPG. He got worse after being injured.

In 2015/16, he was 8th in PPG before getting injured and finished 5th in PPG. He got better after being injured.

In 2016/17, he was 2nd in PPG before getting injured and finished 4th in PPG. He got worse after being injured.


So out of seven partial seasons, four times he got better after coming back and was supposedly playing thru injuries. He was never leading the league in PPG before an injury, was only Top 5 in three of those seasons and his average PPG placing before inury was 13th, he post injury PPG placement was 11th.

Exactly, there are no other seasons outside of 2010-2011 that could have been a potentially mediocre season for him.

 

[Yuri35]

Im not a Pro Malkin, Crosby hater type of guy. I never argued that fact that Crosby has been better than Malkin throughout their career. I just find it pathetic when Crosby fanboys need to downplay Malkin to prop up their boy. Saying Malkin has had very mediocre full seasons is downplaying him badly. Thinking he had more than one mediocre season is also downplaying him.

Can't agree more with you.

 

[daver]

Exactly, there are no other seasons outside of 2010-2011 that could have been a potentially mediocre season for him.

Anything outside of the Top 10, even Top 5 should be considered mediocre for him and/or in comparison to Crosby and especially for a player who is proclaimed to be the best offensive player of his era.

The injury excuse for Malkin can now be considered a myth.

 

[daver]

Can't agree more with you.

Do you also agree that there is zero reason to believe that injuries held him back from proving he was the best offensive player of his era? He actually played better when he was playing "through injuries".

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Anything outside of the Top 10, even Top 5 should be considered mediocre for him and/or in comparison to Crosby and especially for a player who is proclaimed to be the best offensive player of his era.

The injury excuse for Malkin can now be considered a myth.

You realize he was also playing injured before missing games right? Or you don’t? So no, it’s not really a myth. Also, having a better PPG after his injury don’t necessarily mean he was playing at a higher level. You could clearly see when watching him that year that something was off.

Anyways, it doesn’t really matter since I already stated that his was a mediocre season by his standards. The only season where he wasn’t top 10 in PPG was the shortened season where he played 31 games which is a pretty small sample size to claim that injuries prevented him from having a mediocre season, which was also right after his monterous 2012 season and his short but dominant stay with Magnitogorsk during the lockout. He also had a pretty decent playoff showing in 2013 before getting shutdown by Boston.

So, again, you’re claim still doesn’t stand. Malkin didn’t have “some” mediocre seasons, he had one.

 

[daver]

You realize he was also playing injured before missing games right? Or you don’t? So no, it’s not really a myth. Also, having a better PPG after his injury don’t necessarily mean he was playing at a higher level. You could clearly see when watching him that year that something was off.

So any partial season that did not match his 08/09 or his 11/12 seasons was completely influenced by injuries? He started those seasons playing injured? And to the contrary, Crosby never played any games at less than 100%?

If that's the case, then that completely establishes he is a player who is fundamentally injury-prone. A healthy Malkin is now the myth.

 

[daver]

So, again, you’re claim still doesn’t stand. Malkin didn’t have “some” mediocre seasons, he had one.

If we are judging him against Crosby, whether you want to define a season as being mediocre or not, he was clearly inferior to Crosby hence a claim of being the best offensive player of his era is simply not the case.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

So any partial season that did not match his 08/09 or his 11/12 seasons was completely influenced by injuries? He started those seasons playing injured? And to the contrary, Crosby never played any games at less than 100%?

If that's the case, then that completely establishes he is a player who is fundamentally injury-prone. A healthy Malkin is now the myth.

Nope, only his 2010-2011 season...

EDIT: I’m not saying he would’ve reached his 2009 level but injuries certainly didn’t help that year.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

the Oilers should just play McDavid for the entire game so he can score 400 points

it really doesn't make any sense why they aren't doing that think of how many wins that would be

They should play him 1 minute per game. It won't affect his point production, and it would help him stay rested. Hell he might even get more points if he's not fatigued

 

[Nadal On Clay]

If we are judging him against Crosby, whether you want to define a season as being mediocre or not, he was clearly inferior to Crosby hence a claim of being the best offensive player of his era is simply not the case.

You weren’t comparing him to Crosby in the original post. I’ll show it again

”Crosby's peak was more hampered by injuries, that's a well known fact to any pens fan. Twice he was lapping the field at the half way mark. Cannot say the same for Malkin who actually had some very mediocre full seasons saved by injuries.

Your claim is simply baseless speculation. Both their career regular season PPGs and playoff PPGs, where Crosby has a similar gap, is representative of their abilities.”

Stop moving goalposts, your claim was just wrong. Every Pens fans in here know that Crosby has been the better player throughout their careers. You don’t have to downplay Malkin to prove it.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Yeah, I think this went a little off track...

 

[filinski77]

Yeah, I think this went a little off track...

Yeah, things get scary when it's 2 penguins fans arguing with each other

 

[daver]

You weren’t comparing him to Crosby in the original post. I’ll show it again

”Crosby's peak was more hampered by injuries, that's a well known fact to any pens fan. Twice he was lapping the field at the half way mark. Cannot say the same for Malkin who actually had some very mediocre full seasons saved by injuries.

Your claim is simply baseless speculation. Both their career regular season PPGs and playoff PPGs, where Crosby has a similar gap, is representative of their abilities.”

Stop moving goalposts, your claim was just wrong. Every Pens fans in here know that Crosby has been the better player throughout their careers. You don’t have to downplay Malkin to prove it.

We are arguing over the what "mediocre" means.

Malkin has been closer to a Top 3 PPG player than just a Top Ten PPG player in most of seasons and especially his full ones. He has at least two partial seasons where he was outside the Top Ten and one more outside the Top 5. Those were mediocre for him compared to his other seasons, and especially in the context of a claim of being the best offensive player of his era.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

We are arguing over the what "mediocre" means.

Malkin has been closer to a Top 3 PPG player than just a Top Ten PPG player in most of seasons and especially his full ones. He has at least two partial seasons where he was outside the Top Ten and one more outside the Top 5. Those were mediocre for him compared to his other seasons, and especially in the context of a claim of being the best offensive player of his era.

To be fair, at first you said “very mediocre”, so that’s even less true.

Also, How was a 33 pts in 31 GP season mediocre? Mediocre because he was injured? It’s a 87 pts pace over a 82 game season. There is a difference between projecting a mediocre season and actually having a mediocre season. 31 games is not a big enough sample size to call it a mediocre season. Just for fun, Malkin had 31 pts in first 31 games last year and he finished with 98 in 78.

 

[Yuri35]

Do you also agree that there is zero reason to believe that injuries held him back from proving he was the best offensive player of his era? He actually played better when he was playing "through injuries".

Thé thing is that I NEVER said it was a sure thing he was the best offensive player of his era, I just believe that injuries (+TOI) played a big part for him not having closer offensive stats to Sid's (if they are not close enough).

 

[daver]

Thé thing is that I NEVER said it was a sure thing he was the best offensive player of his era, I just believe that injuries (+TOI) played a big part for him not having closer offensive stats to Sid's (if they are not close one).

Crosby missed more time at his peak and missed time when he was leading the league in PPG a lot more than Malkin. There is a much better argument that Crosby would have a better PPG if not for injuries than Malkin.

Any difference in TOI can be attributed to Crosby being the much more reliable faceoff guy. Yes, Crosby has gotten more ES time but that means a lot more defensive zone starts too and more time SH. Malkin has slightly more PP time. Crosby has earned the extra ES time by being a better 2-way player.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

McDavid is only 2 points away from over taking the season lead.

Just a reminder that 57 people are going to look ridiculously bad.

 

[StoneHands]

McDavid is only 2 points away from over taking the season lead.

Just a reminder that 57 people are going to look ridiculously bad.

To be fair, 56 people already look pretty dumb.

 

[talitintti]

#97 on a 132 point pace with a below career average oish%.

It's just really dumb to think that he's not going to win it.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

He's due for a 3-5 pt game.

 

[authentic]

#97 on a 132 point pace with a below career average oish%.

It's just really dumb to think that he's not going to win it.

Wow, I hope he gets that then.