Seravalli: Horvat Contract Discussion

[Killer Orcas]

Give him 6.5 times 8 and call it a day. He's not a top line centre but a very good 2C that brings more than just numbers. A team guy does the little things and pretty sure well liked in room. What they really need to do is move Boeser though.

 

[rypper]

There's no drama. The NHL insiders are throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. They haven't got a single canucks thing right since the new group took over.

 

[BCNate]

Give him 6.5 times 8 and call it a day. He's not a top line centre but a very good 2C that brings more than just numbers. A team guy does the little things and pretty sure well liked in room. What they really need to do is move Boeser though.

I'd give Boeser this season. He is just entering his prime, and is hopefully past his injuries/family challenges. He could be primed for a breakout season. I agree 100% that he has been pretty underwhelming so far in his career, like a 40 goal scorer who never hits 30. If he can't put it together this year, I would move him for sure.

 

[Bankerguy]

Horvat is the kind of guy u need in the playoffs.
Winning teams have guys like this.
Two way guys who play hard and clean and elevate when its clutch time.
some examples off the top of my head
Avs- Kadri
Canes - Brind-amour
Blues - O'reilly
Bolts - Point
Stars - Lehinen
Wings - Hossa in 08/09

i see Horvat like that.. not the best offensive producer but does eveeything else well. Not to discount his recent 30 goals mind u.

Hes prob worth 7-7.5 on the open market... lock him up with a Team Captain discount over 7 years at a cal hit in the 6's

 

[UrbanImpact]

Seravelli has quite 'Frankly' been right about nothing regarding the Canucks. He also had no idea that Miller was re-signing.


Horvat's contract will be total value around 47 million.

6x7.5
7x7

Something like that.

 

[Killer Orcas]

I'd give Boeser this season. He is just entering his prime, and is hopefully past his injuries/family challenges. He could be primed for a breakout season. I agree 100% that he has been pretty underwhelming so far in his career, like a 40 goal scorer who never hits 30. If he can't put it together this year, I would move him for sure.

I like the player and the person seems great. However, he's just too slow and his scoring has always been potential not actual results. If his salary was under 6, I'd keep him, but he just makes too much for what he brings. We need to allocate those cap dollars elsewhere. This team has just too much money tied up on the wing really. I mean Boeser could breakout and actually pot 40 plus and make me look silly, but we need to move one of him or Garland and I really like Garland.

 

[deckercky]

Horvat is the kind of guy u need in the playoffs.
Winning teams have guys like this.
Two way guys who play hard and clean and elevate when its clutch time.
some examples off the top of my head
Avs- Kadri
Canes - Brind-amour
Blues - O'reilly
Bolts - Point
Stars - Lehinen
Wings - Hossa in 08/09

i see Horvat like that.. not the best offensive producer but does eveeything else well. Not to discount his recent 30 goals mind u.

Hes prob worth 7-7.5 on the open market... lock him up with a Team Captain discount over 7 years at a cal hit in the 6's

That's just the thing.....Horvat isn't actually that guy. He seems like he should be. Sure, he takes a ton of faceoffs (with good numbers) and he takes hard defensive assignments, but he isn't really successful in those assignments.

Horvat's reputation exceeds his play, which is why Canucks fans aren't really comfortable paying him as that guy.

 

[BCNate]

I like the player and the person seems great. However, he's just too slow and his scoring has always been potential not actual results. If his salary was under 6, I'd keep him, but he just makes too much for what he brings. We need to allocate those cap dollars elsewhere. This team has just too much money tied up on the wing really. I mean Boeser could breakout and actually pot 40 plus and make me look silly, but we need to move one of him or Garland and I really like Garland.

I agree with all your points, I'm just willing to give him this year to breakout. I do think he is a pretty good candidate to.

 

[Breakers]

Maybe JR and Alvin shouldn’t have talked such a big game about valuing cap space

 

[Luck 6]

I don't think it's crazy, but it's risky to piss off one of your good player. It's one of the things I don't understand with some GM, they'll give big contracts to UFA and play hardball with 'star' players who bled for the team. Realistically there's no way he's going at 5. something even 5.99 on the market, why bother?


8 years at 7M, same dollar amount to Miller, but an extra year would make sense.

Yup that seems pretty reasonable to me too. If he managed to make it a 6.9mil, optically it would look a lot better to the fan base, and perhaps be more of a clear discount, which can be used to better negotiate future contracts with other key players.

If Boeser got $6.65mm, Horvat is going to get quite a bit more. He can also bounce as a UFA and find plenty of suitors as a top six C. He’d do better than Kadri did given the age difference. He’ll start with an $8 on the market.

But that’s a 3 year deal. I’d be fine with paying him 8mil for 3 years, but I wouldn’t pay him 8mil for 8 years.

 

[Rynewed]

Contract negotiation is contract negotiation. We'll keep hearing how far apart the two sides are until one random day something gets done.

Negotiations arent in good faith if you're starting at a number that is comical

Parameters can be wide but feeling disrespected is not good for getting things done

 

[BoHorvat 53]

I just doubt any leaks/rumours regarding the Canucks - it’s abundantly clear that they’re tight lipped. I don’t think anyone’s gotten anything right about the Canucks plans ever since the new regime took over.

 

[Luck 6]

I just doubt any leaks/rumours regarding the Canucks - it’s abundantly clear that they’re tight lipped. I don’t think anyone’s gotten anything right about the Canucks plans ever since the new regime took over.

While true, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t leaked from Horvat’s camp. Either just through conversation, or for some sort of strategic means.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

While true, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t leaked from Horvat’s camp. Either just through conversation, or for some sort of strategic means.

Strategic means of drawing more clicks? Sure. It feels like clickbait to me though, but I guess it's more of a we'll have to wait and see.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Oh look, the same website that doesn't understand how good Toews was has zero understanding of Horvat.

Deployment matters, fit matters, role matters, and (XD muh intajibles) identity matters.

Horvat is an identity player, he has been stuck with absolute scrubs most of his career from Ronalds Kenins, to Loui Eriksson, to Markus Granlund, and he is regularly tasked with shutting down the top lines in the league when he's not actually a natural shutdown guy. Just a big, incredibly athletic and tenacious forward who finds a way to be effective in that role.

At some point, and I hope it's this year, he's going to get some freedom at 5-on-5 like Kesler did when we got Malhotra (Kesler got 41 goals that year and suddenly the league realized he was good).

Horvat is a really good player and a lot of teams would give their eye-teeth to get him, even if many of their fans (and many Canucks fans on here) don't have a grasp on why.

I expect a deal between 6.75 and 7.5 million for 7 or 8 years. I will be thrilled with anything below 7, content with anything up to 7.5, and concerned with anything that approaches 8.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Oh look, the same website that doesn't understand how good Toews was has zero understanding of Horvat.

Deployment matters, fit matters, role matters, and (XD muh intajibles) identity matters.

Horvat is an identity player, he has been stuck with absolute scrubs most of his career from Ronalds Kenins, to Loui Eriksson, to Markus Granlund, and he is regularly tasked with shutting down the top lines in the league when he's not actually a natural shutdown guy. Just a big, incredibly athletic and tenacious forward who finds a way to be effective in that role.

At some point, and I hope it's this year, he's going to get some freedom at 5-on-5 like Kesler did when we got Malhotra (Kesler got 41 goals that year and suddenly the league realized he was good).

Horvat is a really good player and a lot of teams would give their eye-teeth to get him, even if many of their fans (and many Canucks fans on here) don't have a grasp on why.

I expect a deal between 6.75 and 7.5 million for 7 or 8 years. I will be thrilled with anything below 7, content with anything up to 7.5, and concerned with anything that approaches 8.

Why would Vanvouver want eye-teeth for Horvat? What would they do with eye-teeth?

 

[Peen]

muh intanjibles

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

He totally gets traded.

I think Vancouver could get a lot for him. But I also think the Canucks want to make it EP40's team.

 

[Scintillating10]

I think Canucks get him signed but probably have to trade Garland to get caproom long term

 

[Siludin]

He'll get a deal but letting him play hard in a contract year isn't a bad move by the team.
This will linger and get done by the trade deadline if the Canucks are competing. If the team isn't competing, it would be a strategem to keep the prospect of moving him in your back pocket as a shake-up move.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

If you can parlay him into a young RHD and some other assets you do it. If you are saying it’s a country club atmosphere in the room that is on your Captain. No matter what this new regime will have to shakeup the Roster at some point and if Horvat won’t sign for a number that is a team friendly deal, he should go. It would also be nice to see some guys traded at peak value and get the pieces needed in return.

JT Miller and OEL along with Pettersson would make a fine leadership group going forward and hold other players accountable.
We desperately need to fix the backend and through free agency it’s not going to happen for long term success, you end up overpaying and settling on what’s available. I like Bo but it’s unfortunate you need to give to get quality, or you trade Miller before his NTC kicks in at the end of this year.

 

[McJedi]

Boeser's deal, and Horvat's are not really comparable assuming Horvat's is long term.

Boeser got 6.7 for 25,26,27 YO seasons. I think its fair to expect that he is the same or better throughout.

If the Canucks are looking at Horvat on an 8 year deal, that take him to 36 YO.

Horvat on an 8ry/56(ish) million deal probably makes a lot of sense.

I don't think Horvat's ceiling is anywhere near what Kadri just put up last year.

I agree that someone would pay 7 yrs 8 mill for Horvat as a UFA, he is a good 1B/2C.

Boeser is an RFA. Horvat a UFA. Horvat has way more leverage. He can leave to any other team. He’ll definitely make more than $7mm in Vancouver because he’d make at least $8mm elsewhere.

He’s a better and more consistent player than Kadri. Kadri was terrible for the Avs the year before his explosive contract season.

 

[rypper]

But I also think the Canucks want to make it EP40's team.

If they wanted to do that they wouldn't have re-signed JT Miller.

 

[BCNate]

Boeser is an RFA. Horvat a UFA. Horvat has way more leverage. He can leave to any other team. He’ll definitely make more than $7mm in Vancouver because he’d make at least $8mm elsewhere.

He’s a better and more consistent player than Kadri. Kadri was terrible for the Avs the year before his explosive contract season.

Boeser could have decided to take QO's at $7.5 to get to UFA, again, not really comparable deals at all.

JT Miller is a better comparison with his new 7x$8mil deal. I think most people agree that Horvat get the max term at about a Million less.

There would absolutely be a few rebuilding teams looking to add a good all around C and would pay a huge number to do it, but I genuinely don't believe that Horvat has any interest in that scenario, especially given the lack of team success he has seen early in his career,

My comment was that I don't think Horvat's ceiling is anywhere near what Kadri did last year. He does not have 90-100 point potential. Horvat is not a consistent producer, at all. He is very streaky, and went on absolute tear down the stretch to salvage a pretty dismal season. He was also a beast in the bubble playoffs.

 

[McJedi]

Boeser could have decided to take QO's at $7.5 to get to UFA, again, not really comparable deals at all.

JT Miller is a better comparison with his new 7x$8mil deal. I think most people agree that Horvat get the max term at about a Million less.

There would absolutely be a few rebuilding teams looking to add a good all around C and would pay a huge number to do it, but I genuinely don't believe that Horvat has any interest in that scenario, especially given the lack of team success he has seen early in his career,

My comment was that I don't think Horvat's ceiling is anywhere near what Kadri did last year. He does not have 90-100 point potential. Horvat is not a consistent producer, at all. He is very streaky, and went on absolute tear down the stretch to salvage a pretty dismal season. He was also a beast in the bubble playoffs.

I bet it looks more like this. 8 x $7.75mm per.

I’m all for Vancouver having no cap space. You’re the only team I worry about doing an offer sheet on Byram. But y’all ain’t going to have the cap space for it. And we can bridge him.