McKenzie: Holland Listening to Offers on Andreas Athanasiou

[Redder Winger]

Reportedly Pittsburgh isn't the only team interested in Sheahan there's about 4 to 5 more teams that're interested in him. Plus we don't know Kronwalls health issues i see him on LTIR sooner rather then later that alone would clear close to $5 million as well. Bottom line it was widely reported by Detroit's beat writers that have contacts with Holland that he would match any thing less then $4 million and no GM is going to surrender a 1st+3rd for him.

Good Lord. If Holland is willing to match anything up to $4M for him, then why in God's name is Athanasiou sitting in Europe?

 

[mouser]

Good Lord. If Holland is willing to match anything up to $4M for him, then why in God's name is Athanasiou sitting in Europe?

Because they're two different equations.

A) Right now: The question is how much is AA worth given the team projections and situation.

B) If an offersheet is signed: The question becomes would you rather have AA at <Insert undesirable salary> or a 2nd round compensation pick?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Good Lord. If Holland is willing to match anything up to $4M for him, then why in God's name is Athanasiou sitting in Europe?

Wouldn't shock me if Holland told every GM out there, That if you offer sheet AA be prepared to pay a high price for him.

 

[varano]

[QUOTE="I have an issue with all these GMs refusing to step on each other's toes by using the offer sheet system, so they can continue to focus on forcing their own RFAs to sign cheaper deals. Without use of the offer sheet system AA has no leverage. [/QUOTE]


Its bad business and this kid isn't worth damaging potential future trade partners for. It would make more sense to try and trade the pick you would give up in compensation rather than force a team with an offer sheet. If this was a major player, like shea weber was... Then thats a different story and might be worth burning a bridge over. But nowadays... They've become a thing of the past.

 

[Redder Winger]

Its bad business and this kid isn't worth damaging potential future trade partners for. It would make more sense to try and trade the pick you would give up in compensation rather than force a team with an offer sheet. If this was a major player, like shea weber was... Then thats a different story and might be worth burning a bridge over. But nowadays... They've become a thing of the past.

To me cases like this scream collusion.
If you can get a couple of good sources showing a team offered Detroit more than a 2nd in value, but then refuses to make an offer sheet, how is that not collusion?

 

[Redder Winger]

Because they're two different equations.

A) Right now: The question is how much is AA worth given the team projections and situation.

B) If an offersheet is signed: The question becomes would you rather have AA at or a 2nd round compensation pick?

But at the end of the day, you have hockey player or you don't.

So you'd pay $4M for a hockey player to keep someone else in the NHL from taking him for a 2nd round pick.
But you won't pay over $1.9M to keep him from spending the year in Europe - a scenario that gets you nothing.

That's a massive failure in logic.

At some point, if you're managing a roster, you have a price that works for you.
And if it's $1.9M - fine. That's your price.

How in the world do you justify $4M?
I'm a huge Athanasiou fan and I believe I'd walk away from that.

The point is moot - because nobody in the NHL would offer that much.
Hell. Nobody is offering $2.5M - which would be a good contract for the production he'll provide.

And at the end of the day - if I'm a GM - I'm looking for value for production.
Leverage? I'll use my leverage on grinders. You want to stay in Detroit? Don't want to sell your house? No raise for you.

 

[benjiv1]

What about Dzingle + Harpur?

Dzingle makes 1.8M which is less than what Detroit offered Athanasiou. Dzingle has 43 pts in 116 games, Athanasious has the same in 101 games.

Dzingle is a little older, so Ottawa throws in Harpur to even it out.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Detroit has no cap space to match an offer looking at cap friendly. So if I were a GM looking to add a speedy middle 6 forward, I'd offer sheet a 2 year 2.3M contract and lose my 2nd.

Steal AA out for a 2nd, meeting his request partway between his requested 2.5M and the offered 1.9M. And if Detroit matches, then Holland is forced to move other assets in a hurry to remain cap compliant.

That's still not enough to really put the Wings cap in a bind to accept a 2nd. Sheahan can be easily moved, and they can also demote (waivers first if needed again) Booth opening up another $700k on top of Sheahans $2.075M. They'd have to roll with 12 forwards when everyone is healthy, but the emergency recall exception would allow them to recall Booth or bring up Bertuzzi, Lorito or a handful of other forwards without any cap implications if needed. They also have something like $20Xk tied up in SOIR that will give them some wiggle room. If they got really desperate to make room, they could also waive and bury Mrazek and roll with Coreau at #2 to save another $400k...

So depending on how far into the season it is, the offer sheet would need to be in the $2.5M+ range to really get the Wings not to match. IMO, a risky amount to give to Onetrickponisiou...

 

[IranCondraAffair]

What about Dzingle + Harpur?

Dzingle makes 1.8M which is less than what Detroit offered Athanasiou. Dzingle has 43 pts in 116 games, Athanasious has the same in 101 games.

Dzingle is a little older, so Ottawa throws in Harpur to even it out.

The difference between AA and Dzingel isn't Harpur.

 

[Henkka]

Had.
That deal is history. Pittsburgh has traded the asset involved in that deal.

If Holland doesn't think Athanasiou should sit in Europe for $400,000, then why would he suddenly agree to the price?

Anything over Sheahan's salary isn't easily matched. The Red Wings have no cap space.
So they'd have to trade away Sheahan and then dump a player in the AHL with no replacement - playing with a short roster all year.

They can always just take a draft pick instead of Pouliot. Making cap space is the target, not taking 800k (what Pouliot caphit was) on our direction.

Short roster yeah but we can use emergency callups outside from the cap.

There's many loopholes yet to be used.

 

[Redder Winger]

I miss the old days when the Red Wings used loopholes to try and keep cup contending teams together.
Now it's about using loopholes to keep this rickety pile of junk together.


Word today is Athanasiou is 24-48 hours away from a decision. So sometime Thursday we should have an answer - though it might just be signing in Switzerland with an out clause.

 

[5cotland]

Friedman just tweeted:

‘Signs the DET/Athanasiou stalemate is coming to an end. 1 year deal most likely‘

On phone so cant embed tweet

 

[Redder Winger]

Friedman just tweeted:

‘Signs the DET/Athanasiou stalemate is coming to an end. 1 year deal most likely‘

On phone so cant embed tweet

Expecting around $1.6M for one year.
Which will still require the Red Wings to trade someone.

 

[crashnburnluder]

AA will end up back in Detroit, and for the people saying that it's better to just collect a 2nd for him via offersheet instead just letting him play a year in another league are crazy lol. Even if AA played over seas for a season we still completely own his rights and he is still an RFA, he would just be a year older with even less leverage. There were only ever 3 options in this scenario.

1)Sign in Detroit

2) Sign over seas and return next season in the exact same pos.

3) Traded for a vast overpayment

Offer sheets at the 2.5 mark wouldn't get it done, if they would have they would have been offered. Teams also wouldn't do it to hurt Detroit cap situation because you make a lot of enemies in the league doing that for a measly 500k on a team's cap. Just isn't worth burning all the bridges for.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Expecting around $1.6M for one year.
Which will still require the Red Wings to trade someone.

Probably Sheahan will be the one out the door then, Sheahan $2.075 million AA somehere around $1.6M for one year.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Friedman just tweeted:

‘Signs the DET/Athanasiou stalemate is coming to an end. 1 year deal most likely‘

On phone so cant embed tweet

I can live with a one year $1.6M or so deal for AA and then trade Sheahan to any team for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

 

[Redder Winger]

I really hate the idea of trading Sheahan. He's nothing special, but I think he's better than he's been and he's a center who has shown he can handle offensive and defensive assignments in the past.
I wish we were moving Helm or Nielsen or Howard. (not going to bother wishing we moved Abdelkader, much as I like the idea)

 

[Empoleon8771]

Random question, would Detroit be able to retain any money on Sheahan to be able to move him? I have no idea how much cap space they have, so I'm not sure if they could sign AA at $1.6 million and then retain $500k on Sheahan to trade him.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

I actually don't mind Helm's contract (unpopular I know) and Nielsen is okay for the next 2 years.

Will AA still be an RFA next year?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Mantha/Larkin/AA all ending in the same year... Yikes.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I actually don't mind Helm's contract (unpopular I know) and Nielsen is okay for the next 2 years.

Will AA still be an RFA next year?

I don't mind Helm either. Ya i wish his contract was cheaper but he brings more to the table than Sheahan or Abby.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I actually don't mind Helm's contract (unpopular I know) and Nielsen is okay for the next 2 years.

Will AA still be an RFA next year?

You might mind both of them next summer...

 

[Go Wings]

Mantha/Larkin/AA all ending in the same year... Yikes.

If Detroit lets Green and Mrazek go they will have another 10 millon to sign them.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

If Detroit lets Green and Mrazek go they will have another 10 millon to sign them.

If Larkin and Mantha continue to play this way all season I get the feeling they'll be taking up most, if not all, of that $10M.

 

[Sparty]