McKenzie: Holland Listening to Offers on Andreas Athanasiou

[mouser]

It's actually less..

2.5 x 2 = 5
2.1 x 3 = 6.3

Obviously there's the argument about the difference in term, but I think these two contracts are more similar than the previous 1.9 x 2 offer.

Typically with young players the longer the contract the higher the AAV. After all, the expectation is that the player is going to improve and progress in coming seasons. It's with older players you often see teams tacking on extra years to lower the AAV.

I think 2x$1.9m and 3x$2.1m would reflect RFA players with similar valuations--add on the 3rd year, increase the AAV a bit.

 

[Ezekial]

Typically with young players the longer the contract the higher the AAV. After all, the expectation is that the player is going to improve and progress in coming seasons. It's with older players you often see teams tacking on extra years to lower the AAV.

I think 2x$1.9m and 3x$2.1m would reflect RFA players with similar valuations--add on the 3rd year, increase the AAV a bit.

So much correctness in this post. If KH signed AA at 2.2x3 I wouldn't bat an eye, but I'd view 2.2x2 as a slight overpayment.
In no world in my mind AA deserves both more term and AAV than Brown.

A third non-arbitrated year added to a contract is obviously worth more than the first two.

 

[RalphyDanger]

Typically with young players the longer the contract the higher the AAV. After all, the expectation is that the player is going to improve and progress in coming seasons. It's with older players you often see teams tacking on extra years to lower the AAV.

I think 2x$1.9m and 3x$2.1m would reflect RFA players with similar valuations--add on the 3rd year, increase the AAV a bit.

I suppose this could make sense. In my opinion, the AAV should start to rise once the team starts to buy out UFA years. Not really for more RFA years.

For instance, maybe AA wants the Connor brown deal, but Holland doesn't want to give it to him because that would put him one year away from UFA.

As opposed to a two year deal, in which he would still have 2 RFA years left with the Wings. So AA wants Holland to pay more for the 2 year deal.

If AA gets a 3 year deal, than the wings would need to buy out more UFA years on his next contract, making it more expensive.

Just my opinion though. I'm no expert.

 

[Shaffer]

The reason Holland isn’t giving in to AA demands is that he will look weak for RFA’s later in his career. RFA’s will realize he caved for AA’s deal so they will wait for what they want.

 

[SEALBound]

The reason Holland isn’t giving in to AA demands is that he will look weak for RFA’s later in his career. RFA’s will realize he caved for AA’s deal so they will wait for what they want.

Not sure how much "later" there may be for Holland. I mean looking at the roster/cap situation...yikes. Shelled out some major bucks for a whole lotta nothingness.

 

[Shaffer]

Not sure how much "later" there may be for Holland. I mean looking at the roster/cap situation...yikes. Shelled out some major bucks for a whole lotta nothingness.

Honestly, I would give AA the 2.5m if I was Holland because he seems worth it.

 

[LMFAO]

Step the f*** up Chiarelli

 

[Ezekial]

I suppose this could make sense. In my opinion, the AAV should start to rise once the team starts to buy out UFA years. Not really for more RFA years.

For instance, maybe AA wants the Connor brown deal, but Holland doesn't want to give it to him because that would put him one year away from UFA.

As opposed to a two year deal, in which he would still have 2 RFA years left with the Wings. So AA wants Holland to pay more for the 2 year deal.

If AA gets a 3 year deal, than the wings would need to buy out more UFA years on his next contract, making it more expensive.

Just my opinion though. I'm no expert.

The way I see it AA wants to get to arbitration as soon as possible so he wouldn't want 3 years unless he could finagle like ~3x3, which he can't. But he knows the one year deal he could sign wouldn't be lucrative and he risks setting his QFO low in a down year gong into arb.

Both sides aren't budging to set a precedent, and I think both parties are stubborn enough to let the year go by.

 

[Shaffer]

Is AA even a center?

 

[Redder Winger]

Is AA even a center?

Not really.
He's played there a little bit.
He could be a center with some dedication to it.
But his game is creating chances with speed and he seems best suited for the wing.

 

[Liver King]

Chlapik for AA

 

[Brockon]

i dont think there is an offer sheet that makes sense for another team. if you offer him over 4 mil, you lose your 1st and 3rd and he's not worth that but if you offer below, detroit probably matches.

Detroit has no cap space to match an offer looking at cap friendly. So if I were a GM looking to add a speedy middle 6 forward, I'd offer sheet a 2 year 2.3M contract and lose my 2nd.

Steal AA out for a 2nd, meeting his request partway between his requested 2.5M and the offered 1.9M. And if Detroit matches, then Holland is forced to move other assets in a hurry to remain cap compliant.

 

[Claypool]

Detroit has no cap space to match an offer looking at cap friendly. So if I were a GM looking to add a speedy middle 6 forward, I'd offer sheet a 2 year 2.3M contract and lose my 2nd.

Steal AA out for a 2nd, meeting his request partway between his requested 2.5M and the offered 1.9M. And if Detroit matches, then Holland is forced to move other assets in a hurry to remain cap compliant.

Detroit has seven days to decide to match, giving them plenty of time to make room. They could always throw Kronwall on LTIR in the short term, too, if a trade doesn't materialize immedietly.

 

[Oddbob]

Detroit has no cap space to match an offer looking at cap friendly. So if I were a GM looking to add a speedy middle 6 forward, I'd offer sheet a 2 year 2.3M contract and lose my 2nd.

Steal AA out for a 2nd, meeting his request partway between his requested 2.5M and the offered 1.9M. And if Detroit matches, then Holland is forced to move other assets in a hurry to remain cap compliant.

You think Detroit doesn't match a deal that is only 400,000 per year more than their current offer? They match this easily! Not only that, no GM would waste his own time with this low of an offersheet. Any offersheet has to be be something the Wings wouldn't match, which would be in the cost of 1st and 3rd round picks territory. No GM is dumb enough to make that offer, and AA is nowhere near worth that yet.

As for cap trouble, their is none, if they were forced to match AA's offer, they move out Sheahan in a heartbeat. There are at least 3-5 teams including the Pens who would take him for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Edit in: The obvious that offersheets don't happen in the NHL anymore. Last one, was in the last CBA and it got matched. Also, if Leon Draisaitl and David Pastrnak didn't get offersheeted, so why on earth would anyone offersheet a much much lesser player?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Chlapik for AA

No thanks.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Detroit has no cap space to match an offer looking at cap friendly. So if I were a GM looking to add a speedy middle 6 forward, I'd offer sheet a 2 year 2.3M contract and lose my 2nd.

Steal AA out for a 2nd, meeting his request partway between his requested 2.5M and the offered 1.9M. And if Detroit matches, then Holland is forced to move other assets in a hurry to remain cap compliant.

Not true supposedly we already have a deal in place to move Riley Sheahan, Bottom line a $2.3 million offer sheet is easily matched it's been widely reported that Holland would match any thing less then $4 million so you'd be looking at having to give Detroit a 2018 1st round pick+2018 3rd round pick a 2018 2nd round pick isn't happening. Besides OS just don't happen a GM would be crazy to offer AA insane money he might be worth around $2 million per. But any GM that were to offer him $3 million+ especially with his attitude would be crazy. Let's be honest here Holland offered AA $1.9 million per for 2 years. You honestly believe that Holland is going to risk losing AA for an additional $400,000 no way. AA isn't getting OS and he's not getting traded lets face reality here.

 

[CauZuki]

McCarron , 2nd 2018 , 2nd 2019 for AA.

 

[Redder Winger]

Detroit has no cap space to match an offer looking at cap friendly. So if I were a GM looking to add a speedy middle 6 forward, I'd offer sheet a 2 year 2.3M contract and lose my 2nd.

Steal AA out for a 2nd, meeting his request partway between his requested 2.5M and the offered 1.9M. And if Detroit matches, then Holland is forced to move other assets in a hurry to remain cap compliant.

This is the play.
This is what Montreal should be doing.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Detroit has no cap space to match an offer looking at cap friendly. So if I were a GM looking to add a speedy middle 6 forward, I'd offer sheet a 2 year 2.3M contract and lose my 2nd.

Steal AA out for a 2nd, meeting his request partway between his requested 2.5M and the offered 1.9M. And if Detroit matches, then Holland is forced to move other assets in a hurry to remain cap compliant.

An offer sheet would probably need to be closer to 5 million for Holland to even consider not matching.

 

[Redder Winger]

Not true supposedly we already have a deal in place to move Riley Sheahan, Bottom line a $2.3 million offer sheet is easily matched it's been widely reported that Holland would match any thing less then $4 million so you'd be looking at having to give Detroit a 2018 1st round pick+2018 3rd round pick a 2018 2nd round pick isn't happening. Besides OS just don't happen a GM would be crazy to offer AA insane money he might be worth around $2 million per. But any GM that were to offer him $3 million+ especially with his attitude would be crazy. Let's be honest here Holland offered AA $1.9 million per for 2 years. You honestly believe that Holland is going to risk losing AA for an additional $400,000 no way. AA isn't getting OS and he's not getting traded lets face reality here.

Had.
That deal is history. Pittsburgh has traded the asset involved in that deal.

If Holland doesn't think Athanasiou should sit in Europe for $400,000, then why would he suddenly agree to the price?

Anything over Sheahan's salary isn't easily matched. The Red Wings have no cap space.
So they'd have to trade away Sheahan and then dump a player in the AHL with no replacement - playing with a short roster all year.

 

[Redder Winger]

McCarron , 2nd 2018 , 2nd 2019 for AA.

Why not just offer $2.5Mx2 and pay a 2nd rounder as compensation?

 

[Brockon]

The obvious that offersheets don't happen in the NHL anymore. Last one, was in the last CBA and it got matched. Also, if Leon Draisaitl and David Pastrnak didn't get offersheeted, so why on earth would anyone offersheet a much much lesser player?

Because both Draisaitl and Pasternak would cost far too much in compensation picks. And neither Boston or Edmonton were sitting in the cap situation where they'd have to make a move in order to match an OS.

You argue that a lowball offer isn't worth it. I disagree, I feel there's absolutely no risk to extend an offer between the 2 camps prices. At best you get AA for 2.3M and the expense of your 2nd, at worst you force KH to make a trade under pressure and not get the best return. The latter also benefits you as a GM if your competitors are making reactive decisions and not the best trade possible.

 

[Redder Winger]

You think Detroit doesn't match a deal that is only 400,000 per year more than their current offer? They match this easily! Not only that, no GM would waste his own time with this low of an offersheet. Any offersheet has to be be something the Wings wouldn't match, which would be in the cost of 1st and 3rd round picks territory. No GM is dumb enough to make that offer, and AA is nowhere near worth that yet.

As for cap trouble, their is none, if they were forced to match AA's offer, they move out Sheahan in a heartbeat. There are at least 3-5 teams including the Pens who would take him for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Edit in: The obvious that offersheets don't happen in the NHL anymore. Last one, was in the last CBA and it got matched. Also, if Leon Draisaitl and David Pastrnak didn't get offersheeted, so why on earth would anyone offersheet a much much lesser player?

Because Athanasiou won't cost much in cap space or in compensation.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

McCarron , 2nd 2018 , 2nd 2019 for AA.

Thought most Hab fans said that McCarron is a potential bust? Don't need McCarron after drafting Michael Rasmussen with the #9 overall pick. Not interested in dealing AA for McCarron+2 2nd round picks it would cost more then that to trade AA within the division.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Had.
That deal is history. Pittsburgh has traded the asset involved in that deal.

If Holland doesn't think Athanasiou should sit in Europe for $400,000, then why would he suddenly agree to the price?

Anything over Sheahan's salary isn't easily matched. The Red Wings have no cap space.
So they'd have to trade away Sheahan and then dump a player in the AHL with no replacement - playing with a short roster all year.

Reportedly Pittsburgh isn't the only team interested in Sheahan there's about 4 to 5 more teams that're interested in him. Plus we don't know Kronwalls health issues i see him on LTIR sooner rather then later that alone would clear close to $5 million as well. Bottom line it was widely reported by Detroit's beat writers that have contacts with Holland that he would match any thing less then $4 million and no GM is going to surrender a 1st+3rd for him.