HOH Top 40 Stanley Cup Playoff Performers of All Time

[bobholly39]

This came up in another thread and maybe after the SC is decided we could make a thread about it as it depends a bit if TB wins or not but how many people would have Kuch in their top 40 playoff performers all time now?

I may have him near Forsberg in the top 20.

Trottier/Bossy are good comparables too, with similarities between Tampa and NYI.

Forsberg was great but less so in cup winning years. Kucherov has been great in cup winning years and not.

Yeah I'd have him quite high. He's putting together an incredible playoff resume

 

[GoldenKnight]

Safe to say Crosby, Malkin, and Kucherov have all moved up the ranks since 4/17.

 

[GMR]

Is this judged by points?

For instance, who was a better playoff performer. Crosby or Messier?

Messier has more points. Crosby has two CS's.

How do you judge which one is better?

How many people would take Crosby for a playoff run over Messier?

 

[rmartin65]

How many people would take Crosby for a playoff run over Messier?

I would- Crosby is a better player.

I’ll always take the larger sample size (regular season) over the smaller sample size (playoffs).

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

How was crosbys 17 smythe weak lol. I'd love to see this

2017 was well-deserved, but neither 2016 nor 2017 were historically strong Conn Smythe winning performances.

 

[bobholly39]

How many people would take Crosby for a playoff run over Messier?

That's a good question. I'm tempted to take Crosby - better player, can do better. I probably do. Messier was more consistent though, less "off years" - and simply his track record is ridiculous.

So - I think I take Crosby, but it's actually a close one. Not sure what point you were going for with that question.

2017 was well-deserved, but neither 2016 nor 2017 were historically strong Conn Smythe winning performances.

There's a difference between "not being a historically strong conn smythe" and "being among the weakest ever", which is what the poster initially said.

2017 was a pretty good/strong smythe - but it's not a "historically strong smythe" and it's also not "one of the weakest ever".

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

That's a good question. I'm tempted to take Crosby - better player, can do better. I probably do. Messier was more consistent though, less "off years" - and simply his track record is ridiculous.

So - I think I take Crosby, but it's actually a close one. Not sure what point you were going for with that question.



There's a difference between "not being a historically strong conn smythe" and "being among the weakest ever", which is what the poster initially said.

2017 was a pretty good/strong smythe - but it's not a "historically strong smythe" and it's also not "one of the weakest ever".

Oh I kind of missed that in the quoted post, yeah, no, not one of the weakest ever. For sure not, I loved Crosby’s effort and two way play in 2017, it was a very well deserved CS and a pretty strong individual run. But as for context when ranking playoff performers, in the last 10 years, I could probably name more than 10 superior individual finals runs than Crosby even in 2017 (probably at least a half dozen would be Lightning players), but I could also name weaker Conn Smythe winners than 2017 Crosby. Like 2016 Crosby, Justin Williams, and Ryan O’Reilly. I don’t think any of them were necessarily horrendous picks, though, and O’Reilly I thought an obvious one.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Branching off from a discussion on the main boards - who's the best playoff performer in NHL history, who never won a Stanley Cup?

It's an interesting question because even though it's not difficult to name a bunch of great players who never won a Stanley Cup (Dionne, Iginla, Thornton, Lindros, Stastny, Hawerchuk, Perreault, Oates, etc) - most of them were good (but not excellent) in the spring - and a few of them were genuine disappointments.

After exhaustively researching this (for nearly five minutes), I'd suggest something like:

Neely - McDavid - Bure
Park - Howe
Lundqvist

Park would be my (preliminary) pick for "greatest" playoff performer overall. Am I missing anyone obvious (perhaps pre-WWII?)

 

[CokenoPepsi]

I'd take Messier over Crosby in the playoffs not a diss on Crosby by any means there.

 

[Hockey Stathead]

Branching off from a discussion on the main boards - who's the best playoff performer in NHL history, who never won a Stanley Cup?

It's an interesting question because even though it's not difficult to name a bunch of great players who never won a Stanley Cup (Dionne, Iginla, Thornton, Lindros, Stastny, Hawerchuk, Perreault, Oates, etc) - most of them were good (but not excellent) in the spring - and a few of them were genuine disappointments.

After exhaustively researching this (for nearly five minutes), I'd suggest something like:

Neely - McDavid - Bure
Park - Howe
Lundqvist

Park would be my (preliminary) pick for "greatest" playoff performer overall. Am I missing anyone obvious (perhaps pre-WWII?)

Is Norm Ullman a good option?

Led playoffs in points twice: 1963 (tied with Howe at the top) and 1966. He's the only player to lead playoffs in points multiple times but never win the Stanley Cup.

83 points in 106 career playoff games (with some games at the beginning where he was behind the Production Line in Detroit and some games at the end where he was 38-39 years old and behind Keon and Sittler in Toronto).

Think he's generally considered to have been a solid off-the-puck center too (defensively, forechecking, etc.)

Joined the Wings in 1955-1956 after they had won the previous 2 SC. Then traded to the Leafs during 1967-1968 after they had won 4 of the previous 6 SC.

 

[bobholly39]

Branching off from a discussion on the main boards - who's the best playoff performer in NHL history, who never won a Stanley Cup?

It's an interesting question because even though it's not difficult to name a bunch of great players who never won a Stanley Cup (Dionne, Iginla, Thornton, Lindros, Stastny, Hawerchuk, Perreault, Oates, etc) - most of them were good (but not excellent) in the spring - and a few of them were genuine disappointments.

After exhaustively researching this (for nearly five minutes), I'd suggest something like:

Neely - McDavid - Bure
Park - Howe
Lundqvist

Park would be my (preliminary) pick for "greatest" playoff performer overall. Am I missing anyone obvious (perhaps pre-WWII?)

McDavid over Draisailt?

Also - if you're not too worried about positions, and especially since Drai can pass for a winger - shouldn't he slot above Neely and/or Bure?

Probably Lundqvist for goalie - he definitely had more playoff runs. But I'd think Price might be up there too.

 

[Felidae]

I think Lemieux's placement is one of the few times I've strongly disagreed with a HOH list.

2 Conn Smythe's, 2nd highest playoff PPG and GPG of all time, and would have the record for most points, as well as highest PPG in a single playoff run and overall if not for Gretzky. We're talking about a 107 game sample size in the postseason too.

I get he didn't play a lot of playoff games compared to everyone else, but that's never affected his overall ranking (unless compared to Howe and Gretzky) so I dont see why it should here.

The same applies to Bobby Orr.

 

[bobholly39]

I think Lemieux's placement is one of the few times I've strongly disagreed with a HOH list.

2 Conn Smythe's, 2nd highest playoff PPG and GPG of all time, and would have the record for most points, as well as highest PPG in a single playoff run and overall if not for Gretzky. We're talking about a 107 game sample size in the postseason too.

I get he didn't play a lot of playoff games compared to everyone else, but that's never affected his overall ranking (unless compared to Howe and Gretzky) so I dont see why it should here.

The same applies to Bobby Orr.

I'm a big supporter of Lemieux's overall ability and overall player ranking, but for playoffs I have trouble slotting him too high.

How high would you rank him?

The problem is he has very little outside of his peak years (unlike regular season resume, where he has a lot outside of his peak years, be it 96, 97, 2001 comeback, etc).

2001 huge comeback....but settles for 17 points in 18 playoff games. His only ever under ppg playoff run. Decent, but pretty underwhelming for Lemieux, who got shut out in round 3.

96 & 97 - 2 huge seasons, plays with peak Jagr, and he does put forth 27 points in 18 games in 1996 which is good, but he runs out of steam in round 3. He doesn't do too well in 1997 playoffs.

I'll always give Lemieux a pass for his 1993 playoffs, despite the huge surpirse loss to NYI. I give him a pass based on his comeback from chemo, he must have been exhausted - and also, after back to back smythes you can't expect them to win every year.

But in 1994 - also, underwhelming round 1 exit.

So in the end....the only 3 playoff runs he has that are truly memorable are his 2 smythe runs, as well as 89, with 12 goals in 11 games. It's a super light resume, despite how strong those 3 years are.

How do you slot 3 memorable playoff runs of Lemieux against the sheer volume of great playoff runs players like Beliveau, Roy or Messier have?

I'd personally have Lemieux also higher than 11, but he definitely wouldn't crack the top 5 for me here.

Orr - same idea. But unlike Lemieux, Orr has some underwhelming playoff runs in the middle of his peak/prime, so I definitely slot him behind Lemieux for that reason. But he also lacks from an all-time perspective.

 

[daver]

I'm a big supporter of Lemieux's overall ability and overall player ranking, but for playoffs I have trouble slotting him too high.

How high would you rank him?

The problem is he has very little outside of his peak years (unlike regular season resume, where he has a lot outside of his peak years, be it 96, 97, 2001 comeback, etc).

2001 huge comeback....but settles for 17 points in 18 playoff games. His only ever under ppg playoff run. Decent, but pretty underwhelming for Lemieux, who got shut out in round 3.

96 & 97 - 2 huge seasons, plays with peak Jagr, and he does put forth 27 points in 18 games in 1996 which is good, but he runs out of steam in round 3. He doesn't do too well in 1997 playoffs.

I'll always give Lemieux a pass for his 1993 playoffs, despite the huge surpirse loss to NYI. I give him a pass based on his comeback from chemo, he must have been exhausted - and also, after back to back smythes you can't expect them to win every year.

But in 1994 - also, underwhelming round 1 exit.

So in the end....the only 3 playoff runs he has that are truly memorable are his 2 smythe runs, as well as 89, with 12 goals in 11 games. It's a super light resume, despite how strong those 3 years are.

How do you slot 3 memorable playoff runs of Lemieux against the sheer volume of great playoff runs players like Beliveau, Roy or Messier have?

I'd personally have Lemieux also higher than 11, but he definitely wouldn't crack the top 5 for me here.

Orr - same idea. But unlike Lemieux, Orr has some underwhelming playoff runs in the middle of his peak/prime, so I definitely slot him behind Lemieux for that reason. But he also lacks from an all-time perspective.

This ranking can be a bit unusual compared to traditional rankings.

I cannot imagine that too many people would not have Mario and Orr (and likely Howe) in their Top 4 of players you would want on your team for a playoff run.

 

[bobholly39]

This ranking can be a bit unusual compared to traditional rankings.

I cannot imagine that too many people would not have Mario and Orr (and likely Howe) in their Top 4 of players you would want on your team for a playoff run.

Yup, top 4. Possibly even both top 3. At their best, who else do you pick above them?

But are we ranking ability, or resume/legacy? For ability - and for "peak playoffs" both Lemieux and Orr are probably top 5, maybe even top 3. Both have 2 of the strongest smythe runs ever.

But for overall playoff resume/legacy? I think that's more what this project was about, and explains their rankings being a bit lower.

 

[frisco]

Branching off from a discussion on the main boards - who's the best playoff performer in NHL history, who never won a Stanley Cup?
After exhaustively researching this (for nearly five minutes), I'd suggest something like:

Neely - McDavid - Bure
Park - Howe
Lundqvist

I'd go Perreault over both Bure and Neely.

Perreault 103 points in 90 GP
Bure 70 points in 64 GP (only five playoff appearances)
Neely 89 points in 93 GP

My Best-Carey

 

[wetcoast]

McDavid over Draisailt?

My first thought as well but he did say it was a 5 minute thing and maybe he wanted a center and 2 wingers?

Also - if you're not too worried about positions, and especially since Drai can pass for a winger - shouldn't he slot above Neely and/or Bure?

Probably Lundqvist for goalie - he definitely had more playoff runs. But I'd think Price might be up there too.

 

[VanIslander]

His name is Earl Seibert.
He played 50+ minutes as a skater.
And the captain dominated.
HHOF top-50 all time player in anyone's books.
Yet his name ain't mentioned enough because f'in' Boston kept churnin' stellar dmen out.

He player ten straight years a 1st or 2nd all star, everyone knowing he was the 'field general'.

After already leading the Rags to the Stanley Cup, he led the Blackhawks to the 1938 Stanley Cup championship with goal scoring, defense, leadership and 50+ minutes played when teammates averaged 26.

 

[DRW895]

2018 from Ovechkin must be here. No hat-tricks, no multipoint (3+) games, no emptynet points, huge pressure of all previous Capitals failsures. At the same time more than point per game, contributes in all key games except G6 against Tampa, first time since Mike Bossy in early 1980-s both regular and postseason best goalscorer all that after worst career season and too much unfair blamings from pandits like Slava Malamud

 

[Michael Farkas]

This isn't an individual performances list. He was probably the 3rd (2nd at best) most important Capital in that run. Which isn't a negative. They had three excellent performers (Kuznetsov, Holtby).

 

[K Fleur]

If there has ever been a player that actually fits the “enigmatic Russian player” stereotype it’s Kuznetsov.

Cause he was f***ing awesome in that 2018 run. Dynamic carrying the puck up the ice, making awesome passes, and deking out goalies.

He makes it easy to forget how good he can be because he plays like shit so often.

 

[sr edler]

T. Linden was someone who always punched above his regular season weight in the playoffs. 80 points in 79 games in his first 8-year stint in Vancouver, and nice leadership, physicality and two-way presence as well, and always showed up in elimination games.

S. Koivu is another one who was a gamer in the playoffs.

 

[solidmotion]

daniel briere deserves a mention. from 2006 to 2012 he had 106 points in 102 playoff games—it's a cherrypicked sample but he's actually the top playoff scorer in the league over that span. gotta be one of the few people to have a higher P/G in the playoffs than the regular season (.91 in the regular season, 1.04 in the playoffs). top scorer in 2010 with 30 points and oddly tied for the top goal scorer in 2012 (with only 8 goals, but still).

 

[blogofmike]

Is Norm Ullman a good option?

Led playoffs in points twice: 1963 (tied with Howe at the top) and 1966. He's the only player to lead playoffs in points multiple times but never win the Stanley Cup.

83 points in 106 career playoff games (with some games at the beginning where he was behind the Production Line in Detroit and some games at the end where he was 38-39 years old and behind Keon and Sittler in Toronto).

Think he's generally considered to have been a solid off-the-puck center too (defensively, forechecking, etc.)

Joined the Wings in 1955-1956 after they had won the previous 2 SC. Then traded to the Leafs during 1967-1968 after they had won 4 of the previous 6 SC.

A hard no from me.

Ullman was great if

A) it was the first round from 1963-66

AND

B) he played Chicago

Otherwise he wasn't scoring and the other team was.

Against the 63-66 Hawks
18 GP, 18-26-44, +8 with all 8 3+ point playoff games he ever had, and 10 of his 15 2+ point games. The majority of his career playoff points came in 4 rounds against Chicago from 63-66.

Same years in the Finals against Toronto
12 GP, 1-7-8, -10, only one game where he was a plus player
And Montreal (his best non-Chicago showing)
6 GP, 4-2-6, -1, again 1 game as a plus player

He might have a reputation for being a good two-way player, but his teams were giving up tons of goals while he was on the ice.

Somewhere in one of these projects I once said that while Norm Ullman might have a reputation for being a good checker and Pavel Bure has a reputation for skating in circles at the blue line, that Russian dude skating in circles must be doing something better than him based on the results, and I'd take him over Ullman every time.

@Hockey Outsider posted playoff r-on/r-off data in the Top 100 and Ullman was dreadful. It's unclear how much Gordie Howe was skewing Ullman's scores down vs Ullman is skewing Howe's scores up.

 

[Henry Miller]

Branching off from a discussion on the main boards - who's the best playoff performer in NHL history, who never won a Stanley Cup?

It's an interesting question because even though it's not difficult to name a bunch of great players who never won a Stanley Cup (Dionne, Iginla, Thornton, Lindros, Stastny, Hawerchuk, Perreault, Oates, etc) - most of them were good (but not excellent) in the spring - and a few of them were genuine disappointments.

After exhaustively researching this (for nearly five minutes), I'd suggest something like:

Neely - McDavid - Bure
Park - Howe
Lundqvist

Park would be my (preliminary) pick for "greatest" playoff performer overall. Am I missing anyone obvious (perhaps pre-WWII?)

Briere jumps to mind. He’s a known playoff performer and probably wins the Smythe if the Flyers win in 2010. Maybe Pronger has an argument though. I’d bet not many players put up 30+ points in a single playoff in a losing effort outside of the truly greats, but I’m too lazy to look it up