HOH Top 40 Stanley Cup Playoff Performers of All Time

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by quoipourquoi, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    The following is the final list of the top Stanley Cup playoff performers as determined by the History of Hockey community.

    Report any errors to quoipourquoi.

    Top Stanley Cup Playoff Performers of All-Time

    Pos.BornNationalityFirst PlayoffLast PlayoffSt. CupsOT P/W
    1Wayne GretzkyC11961Canada198019974
    2Patrick RoyG11965Canada198620034
    3Maurice RichardW11921Canada194419608
    4Jean BeliveauC21931Canada1954197110
    5Gordie HoweW21928Canada194719804
    6Doug HarveyD11924Canada194919686
    7Mark MessierC31961Canada198019976
    8Jacques PlanteG21929Canada195319736
    9Ted KennedyC41925Canada194419555
    10Denis PotvinD21953Canada197519884
    11Mario LemieuxC51965Canada198920012
    12Joe SakicC61969Canada199320082
    13Bobby OrrD31948Canada196819752
    14Red KellyD41927Canada194819678
    15Guy LafleurW31951Canada197219895
    16Frank NighborC71893Canada191519284
    17Turk BrodaG31914Canada193719525
    18Peter ForsbergC81973Sweden199520082
    19Henri RichardC91936Canada1956197511
    20Mike BossyW4Canada
    21Larry RobinsonD5Canada
    22Ken DrydenG4Canada
    23Nicklas LidstromD6Sweden
    24Bryan TrottierC10Canada
    25Bernie GeoffrionW5Canada
    26Doug GilmourC11Canada
    27Serge SavardD7Canada
    28Sidney CrosbyC12Canada
    29Phil EspositoC13Canada
    30Frank BoucherC14Canada
    31Bobby HullW6Canada
    32Chris ProngerD8Canada
    33Jari KurriW7Finland
    34Sergei FedorovC15Russia
    35Martin BrodeurG5Canada
    36Scott StevensD9Canada
    37Jacques LemaireW8Canada
    38Duncan KeithD10Canada
    39Billy SmithG6Canada
    40Frank FoystonC16Canada

    [​IMG]

    Discussion Threads
    Round 2 - Voting Results
    Round 2 - Vote 1 Discussion
    Round 2 - Vote 2 Discussion
    Round 2 - Vote 3 Discussion
    Round 2 - Vote 4 Discussion
    Round 2 - Vote 5 Discussion
    Round 2 - Vote 6 Discussion
    Round 2 - Vote 7 Discussion
    Round 2 - Vote 8 Discussion

    Preliminary Discussion Threads
    Rules Discussion Thread
    Preliminary Discussion Thread

    Round 1 Process
    Round 1 Voting Results and Screening Process (Aggregate List)
    Participant Survey

    [​IMG]

    Individual Voting Records
    BenchBrawl
    Black Gold Extractor
    blogofmike
    bobholly39
    Canadiens1958
    drmagg
    Johnny Engine
    Kyle McMahon
    Mike Farkas
    MXD
    quoipourquoi
    seventieslord
    TheGeneral
    Open Ballots
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  2. Sentinel

    Sentinel Registered User

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    IMO Harvey and Plante are overrated, and Lafleur is underrated. This list makes it sound like 70s Habs are an afterthought. I just don't see how he is below Orr and Lemieux in playoff performance.
     
  3. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    The clock might have just struck midnight because I completely 100% agree with a Sentinel post. :)
     
  4. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    I had Ken Dryden higher than Plante too. Where it becomes an issue is that the players from the 1956-1960 Canadiens dynasty had pretty good showings both before and after the dynasty - something that can't be said for Lafleur outside of his five-season run. It's a small window for the two big stars of what I believe to be a better team: the 1970s Canadiens.

    And despite not playing for a dynasty, Lemieux's five best playoffs (minimum two rounds) were still statistically superior even when factoring in the weaker defensive opposition Lemieux faced. And Lemieux holds up better beyond those five too.

    I think some of the voting has been beneficial to players with fewer minuses. Lafleur had a pretty big one called the 1980s.
     
  5. MXD

    MXD James St. John Smythe

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    There's probably no point in bringing Broda into this, and I might sound like I'm harping on Ted Kennedy (I'd probably have him just a few spots lower than the group), but I think we screwed up when concluding he, as opposed to Red Kelly, was the best O-6 Non-Howe, Non-Hab.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  6. Canadiens1958

    Canadiens1958 Registered User

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    Gordie Howe

    So Gordie Howe is not an O6 non - Hab?
     
  7. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    Joe Sakic is the one name that stands out to me as a bit overrated on here, although subsequent votes will do a lot to determine by how much. Should there really be a big separation between him and the other top 4-5 position players of the same era (Forsberg, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Stevens, Yzerman)? Not saying there will be, but there could be depending on how the next 1-2 rounds go. But something about him ahead of the 4 names right underneath him doesn't quite strike me as right.
     
  8. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    15 Canadians, all born within a 48-year window.

    I'm not saying this proves anything wrong, but it's a strikingly narrow demographic.
     
  9. Mike Farkas

    Mike Farkas Grace Personified

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    I think it makes more sense here than anywhere...while I am one of the first to go to bat for DOB-bias, the playoffs are a different playing field. I don't equate playing in a four-round, best of 7 atmosphere and playing in a two-game total goals series...I did value more modern players in this regard, in this setting...

    There's also a logical point to be made about players from dynasties featuring high on the list...it's a "best playoff guy" list...naturally, I'd start my focus on teams that won a bunch of stuff...
     
  10. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    I don't think there will be separation, but somewhere after finding out he scored 13 game-winning points on his teams' 25 overtime wins (Maurice Richard was next of the eligible players at the time with 7 points), he started to look better than I anticipated. I didn't have him as the best of his era though.

    O6 heavy at the start, no doubt. I think a lot of us were looking at different O6 players which caused so many to get in. I don't think we should be hesitant to throw in another right away (Broda) if it's warranted.
     
  11. danincanada

    danincanada Registered User

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    Where are you finding the game winning point statistics?
     
  12. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Box scores. It's a pain (which is why I add as we go as opposed to having a pre-loaded list), but I'm hoping we'll have a pretty good resource at the end of the project.
     
  13. GuineaPig

    GuineaPig Registered User

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    My first impression as well. Seems like a list Don Cherry would come up with.
     
  14. danincanada

    danincanada Registered User

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    Thanks, I was wondering because I've never seen those anywhere.
     
  15. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Peter Forsberg finished immediately behind Guy Lafleur, the most recent addition. Now I would have no problem if Forsberg was #15 instead of where he'll probably land (#16-20), but I don't think it takes Don Cherry to put Lafleur over Forsberg.
     
  16. BraveCanadian

    BraveCanadian Registered User

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    Kind of agree on this one.. as well as Sakic being overrated.. as awesome as he was..

    Wait until you see where the rest of the 80s Isles trio are shaping up be..
     
  17. MXD

    MXD James St. John Smythe

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    ....5 out of the Top 10 are Québecois, 5 out the Top 10 are French Canadians and 5 out of the Top 10 are associated with the Montreal Canadiens, and there are actually players ahead of Bobby Orr.

    Yep, totally something Don Cherry would come up with.
     
  18. Black Gold Extractor

    Black Gold Extractor Registered User

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    Perhaps, but it is important to note that the NHL is only 100 years old. The O6 era to now is just 75 years.

    Additionally, active players will inherently be at a disadvantage since they're only half done, so to speak. (If Malkin, hypothetically, continues his torrid pace and wins a Conn Smythe in a hypothetical Penguins Cup win later this year, he suspect that he would jump up the rankings quite a bit.) This shortens the effective window for this project, so to speak, by maybe ten years to only ~65 years.

    Furthermore, the European influx really only took off in the 90's which further reduces the window.

    As for the rankings, I look at them in terms of blocks rather than exact rankings. #1-6 were basically locks, no matter what order one has them in. #7-10 (if we switch Red Kelly and Ted Kennedy... ;)) were guys who were big-game performers for many years without the insane levels shown by #1-6. #11-15 (again with the switched Ted Kennedy) were guys who were great/insane for two or three post-seasons and respectable otherwise for a few more years.
     
  19. MXD

    MXD James St. John Smythe

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    Also, lots of Dynasties players, and the Dynasties era coincides roughly with the End of WWII and ends up straigh with the Oilers Dynasty (or the Gretzky trade, YMMV).

    The league was very Canadian : amongst older players than Richard, the best non-Canadian player was... Frank Brimsek? And he held that title (if we keep it to the NHL) for... well, technically longer than that, but Chris Chelios first shown signs he could end up passing him, well, right at the end of the period mentionned above.

    And I doubt anyone considered Brimsek for this.

    The league started to decanadianize right when the dynasties went the way of the dodo. Of course the best players would be Canadians...
     
  20. The Panther

    The Panther Registered User

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    Here they are, standing in order -- Gretzky, Roy, and Richard:

    [​IMG]
     
  21. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    That's not an "all-time" list guys.
     
  22. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Frank Nighbor finished two spots out from Lafleur in the most recent vote. The great thing is that we're accepting open ballots to be more accommodating to people who didn't have time to make Round 1 lists. You're welcome to vote for whichever players you feel check off all the boxes: nationality, pre-O6, post-DPE, etc.
     
  23. Kyle McMahon

    Kyle McMahon Registered User

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    I agree, Sakic is the one name I just don't quite get the love for. I think some voters really value the OT scoring, and fair enough, but yeah out of him and those 5 other contemporaries you listed I think I had him ranked fifth on my initial list.
     
  24. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Sakic's voting record last vote was really interesting. No 1st place votes, but two 2nds, two 3rds, two 4ths, two 5ths, and one unranked.

    Seems like almost everyone thought #12-15 is where he belongs, but no one could agree on which names should have appeared above him, which led to everyone thinking he was overrated because he landed above at least one or two players on each of our lists that seemed like they should have been ahead.

    That there is such a strong consensus that Sakic is awesome is probably to his credit.
     
  25. GuineaPig

    GuineaPig Registered User

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    I'm not saying the list is wrong per se (I didn't participate, so I don't really have the right to throw rocks), just that it was my immediate impression.
     

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