HOH: Crosby to Columbus?

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

I don't see the big freaking deal really.

Cosby already came to Columbus. I saw him a few years ago. He spoke at Ohio State University's graduation. "Eyyeeee would like to talk to Uuuuuu," jello pudding pops, etc.
He was funny, but really doesn't deserve this hype.

It isn't like he's Chris Rock.

 

[emillie]

Columbus has only had a pick up to #3, which they traded to #1 for a price. What are you talking about?

In the model in the first post here, the Thrashers and Jackets get the top 2 picks.

It shoudnt be the small market's fault that Colorado and Toronto decided to line their roster with old foagies.

So you're addmitting those "old foagies" might not play that way and those 2 teams could have done worse in a full season of hockey?

I think people get too far ahead of themselves when assuming the order of the draft. According to them, the draft number will determine the quality of product that comes out of it. By no means does the first player you pick in the draft overall guarantee a slam-dunk pick.

So why do you, as a Jackets fan I assume, so desperatly want the jackets to get a top 5 pick? If they draft well shouldn't get they a very good player later on?

There's a reason why the NHL has a draft where the worst teams get the first pick

But who are you to say the team X would have been worse then team Y. Who would have guess the Pedators would have better then the Ducks last season?

The idea is so that the Atlantas, Pittsburghs, and Washingtons of the league don't stay at the bottom. This goes hand-in-hand with them wanting to make sure fans can see a winning product in all 30 markets. Though it can't happen, it's nice to have wishful thinking for the future. But ofcourse, the detractors want to take that away because this is some kind of special year.

Isn't the point of the draft that these teams do better with younger players? After a couple years of drafting lower wouldn't t hey logically start doing better in the season?

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

But who are you to say the team X would have been worse then team Y. Who would have guess the Pedators would have better then the Ducks last season?

Aaaaaahhhh yes. A nice bit of sleight of hand. The debate is mostly centered on "good" teams vs. "bad" teams and you pick two from the middle for an example.

I concede that this pack of middle teams presents a challenge because they're the ones that are truly on the cusp of falling in or out of the playoffs. For the sake of this argument, I'll use the same tact as others who have been part of these ongoing arguments. When faced with a difficult question, I'll chose to ignore it.

I can tell you that I was pretty dern sure that Columbus, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Florida, Carolina, Atlanta, NYR and Buffalo were going to be worse than almost 2/3rds of the league.

I'd like to think I'm a genius, but I'm not. With a little bit of logic, a feel for history, and some knowledge about the hockey teams that are out there, you can put together a reasonably-informed 1-30 ranking.
It won't be 100% accurate, but it'll wind up looking more representative of the current NHL than some 30 ball randomness.

Not a great solution, but the best we can hope for. Well, some of us.

 

[futurcorerock]

Looks like i've got to put my cleaning gloves on.

In the model in the first post here, the Thrashers and Jackets get the top 2 picks.

Correct -- Wouldn't it be a crying shame if Washington won the pick? They are a team who went from playoffs to yard sale and earn two highly touted prospects in the process. The point of the weighted system factoring more than one season is to prove that teams who are consistently worse probably deserve the top pick this year due in part to the lack of a schedule to rank.

So you're addmitting those "old foagies" might not play that way and those 2 teams could have done worse in a full season of hockey?

I admitted that? Woah... hang on. If i'm saying more than what's there, i've got to plug that leak and fast!

No - I'm saying, simply, that those teams chose to fill their roster that way. And because they are older doesnt give them a harder time competing... personally, a room full of vets has a bigger shot to win it all as they have the experience and discipline than a room full of youngsters

So why do you, as a Jackets fan I assume, so desperatly want the jackets to get a top 5 pick? If they draft well shouldn't get they a very good player later on?

It's not so much desperately wanting the top 5... we'll get it, we've sucked that bad. I'm taking a stance against the crazy notion that the draft should be a fair 30:1 for every team. With that train of thought, people forget why there is a draft in the first place.

If you ask me personally, i'd rather the draft be held next year with an expanded number of rounds. They'd call it the deepest draft of all time

But who are you to say the team X would have been worse then team Y. Who would have guess the Pedators would have better then the Ducks last season?

Who are you to guess Colorado would tank and have a firesale? Who are you to say Toronto's senior citizens would croak weeks before the ASG?

Again, I refer you to my assertion that I agree with the weighted draft only when the past few seasons have been accounted for.

Isn't the point of the draft that these teams do better with younger players? After a couple years of drafting lower wouldn't t hey logically start doing better in the season?

Using your logic, by random luck if Pittsburgh were to land the 30th pick, how would the draft reward their losing ways with a pick that is lower than a winning team's pick.

Plus, you forget that both Atlanta and Columbus are expansion franchises. You're crazy to think the Minnesota wild have built a consistent contender based on their Cinderella run. It's absolutely ludicrous to think that Columbus would have built a deep pool of prospects after only 4 years in existence.

Point of the draft is to disperse youth into the league in a weighted system so that the worst teams can get a shot at the best players. That shouldn't change for the circumstance.

 

[HockeyCritter]

Looks like i've got to put my cleaning gloves on.

Correct -- Wouldn't it be a crying shame if Washington won the pick? They are a team who went from playoffs to yard sale and earn two highly touted prospects in the process. The point of the weighted system factoring more than one season is to prove that teams who are consistently worse probably deserve the top pick this year due in part to the lack of a schedule to rank.

Two??

Again, the Caps were in last place BEFORE the expensive contracts were moved. Furthermore, they managed to miss the playoffs three times in six years, not exactly a stellar performance.

 

[Captain Conservative]

Two??

Again, the Caps were in last place BEFORE the expensive contracts were moved. Furthermore, they managed to miss the playoffs three times in six years, not exactly a stellar performance.

The question still stands. How many times does futurecorerock need to be told the facts? 4 and counting.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

This is entirely bogus.
Take a team like Detroit.
In just about every scenario, they get the last pick in the draft, or something close to it.
Detroit, as evidenced by the last two playoffs, was obviously a team on its way down.
And they lost Brett Hull. And Matt Schneider.
Guys like Shanahan, Yzerman, Chelios, McCarty are all showing signs of age.
And now there has been an entire year off. The old guys were getting older. They had a reduced roster, with Hull and Schneider.
I think it is safe to say that Detroit wasn't going to finish 2nd overall last year.

There is no way that the league should have a draft using past seasons.
Have a 30 team lottery.
Everybody picks a number out of the hat.

I also have ideas for future drafts.
1) Eliminate high draft picks for low teams. (I'd say eliminate the draft altogether, but the draft is an insitution and important PR for the league)
Why? With a salary cap, bottom feeders no longer need the help to compete. They can go out and get what they want just as easily as the next guy.
Every body get's an equal shot at #1. For the most part, #1 picks don't step in and make an impact for a few years. With a salary cap, by then, most bottom feeders would have been able to put themselves back into contention without the help of a big-name youngster.
Also, I believe the NHL, if it goes this route, should go to the 1-30, 30-1 draft selection format (The kind used by fantasy drafters everywhere)

But if you must c ontinue with this format, may I suggest some tweaking:
2) Detroit was eliminated in the second round last year, but would have picked next to last. That's not right. Calgary should not have a higher pick than Detroit, if you really believe all the nonsense about worse teams needing higher draft picks.
It's time to change things up.
Picks one through 14 will be decided in a lottery fashion, going to the non playoff teams.
Last place gets 14 names in the hat.
Second last gets 13
....
14th last gets 1.
Similarily, this should continue to happen until the top fourteen slots are decided.
Then The bottom 16 picks should be decided like this:
Eight teams are eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. They get picks 15-22. Use the regular season stats to decide who goes where. The worst record of the 1st round losers gets pick 15. The best gets #22.
The 4 teams eliminated in the second round get 23-26.
Again, using regular season records to break ties.
And so on.
The Stanley Cup champ gets pick 30. The other finalist gets 29.

Again, even using this format, I would support a 1-30, 30-1, fantasy draft format.
Because with a salary cap, there will be less need to help the bottom feeders. They still get the best shot at the can't=miss talent. So it doesn't upset the crusty old thinking too much

 

[RangerBoy]

Yeah, because the New York Rangers have done so much good for the game.

Well the NHL experienced their best season ever in 1993-94 when the Rangers won the Cup.When hockey knocked the NBA off the cover of Sports Illustrated when the NHL was proclaimed as hot while the NBA was not.Too bad another lockout took away all of the NHL's momentum.Whether or not you want to admit it,the Rangers drive the bus for the NHL in the United States

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Assuming there's a 2005-06 season, I'd prefer the draft be pushed back until the All-Star break and the standings at the 41 game point be used to determine the order using the lottery system in the old CBA. Combining All-Star weekend with the draft would give the NHL some much needed positive publicity. It would get a lot more coverage than either event gets on its own.

I'd keep the draft on this schedule permanantly and use the final 41 games of the previous season plus the first 41 games of the following season to determine the selection order in subsequent drafts. The NHL could still hold a June draft to handle unsigned players who re-enter the draft.

Innovative idea.
I like it.
All these 4 year averages are nonsense.

 

[futurcorerock]

The question still stands. How many times does futurecorerock need to be told the facts? 4 and counting.

I choose not to respond, because Nobody's answered my question: Why would Washington deserve to earn the same weighted draft lottery due to last year's rankings? My point was that one year of failure shouldn't by any means define a good drafting year TWO years in a row.

You can read my posts from the start of this thread and note a similar trend: I support the usage of a weighted draft lottery based on the record over multiple seasons, though some people think that last year's record should define this year's draft. Ludicrous.

As for the argument of reading the thread... it's 109 posts and counting, I dont exactly have the time to commit to reading every single post as well as reading every single thread.

Two??

Again, the Caps were in last place BEFORE the expensive contracts were moved. Furthermore, they managed to miss the playoffs three times in six years, not exactly a stellar performance.

And that's why Washington deserves to get the same weighted lottery as the last year?

Boo hoo Washington

 

[joepeps]

you can't do that..... take an average of the last 4 seasons....

1). OLD CBA new CBA.. different league...
2). Players are gone from teams..... ie). Detroit has Yzerman gonna retire shanahan etc... Toronto has like 1/2 the team gone... these teams are not the same....

Only thing to do is a...

All free agents

or b... wait a year.. and have 2 drafts in 1.....