HOH: Crosby to Columbus?

[nyrmessier011]

I know the Isles have a rep for giving away good picks, but I think they to deserve a shot at the kid.

yea i forgot them...i think they would fall in group 3 or 4...but u get my point

 

[futurcorerock]

Very fair, but Washington would be outraged.

Well Washington can suck it.

Theres some chit-chat going on over at the Jackets thread about scenarios and reaction of landing the #1 overall pick. Maybe it's possible that the Jackets would trade down? Atleast thats what some of the regulars would do if they were GMDM

Personally, I'd rather it be a measure of the past 3 seasons. But to add to the argument: Should playoff success be factored into the rankings? By my minimalistic understanding of the former system of draft (CBA expired and all) was that playoffs determine the rest of the order of the draft beyond the 14 out.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=132796

 

[Charge_Seven]

Personally I think that teams that performed poorly have already been rewarded for that. The past four years shouldn't matter a damn.

Straight lottery. Sorry small markets, you guys already cost the Leafs, Flyers, Wings, Avs, Devils, and other larger market teams a shot at the Cup, now we want a shot at Crosby, it's only fair ladies.

EDIT: If my Leafs don't get the pick I'd like to see Columbus get it anyways, but I think everyone deserves a shot.

 

[Dave is a killer]

Personally I think that teams that performed poorly have already been rewarded for that. The past four years shouldn't matter a damn.

Straight lottery. Sorry small markets, you guys already cost the Leafs, Flyers, Wings, Avs, Devils, and other larger market teams a shot at the Cup, now we want a shot at Crosby, it's only fair ladies.

EDIT: If my Leafs don't get the pick I'd like to see Columbus get it anyways, but I think everyone deserves a shot.

what happens IF Tampa Bay wins the lottery and drafts Crosby? ... what then oh mighty one?

 

[futurcorerock]

Personally I think that teams that performed poorly have already been rewarded for that. The past four years shouldn't matter a damn.

Straight lottery. Sorry small markets, you guys already cost the Leafs, Flyers, Wings, Avs, Devils, and other larger market teams a shot at the Cup, now we want a shot at Crosby, it's only fair ladies.

EDIT: If my Leafs don't get the pick I'd like to see Columbus get it anyways, but I think everyone deserves a shot.

Can't blame all small markets for this mess. That seems to be a wild tangent running around the boards: All owners caused this lockout. Inversely, all players caused this lockout. Hardly.

I think the rumor was that 20 clubs shot the last deal down... majority rules, so it isnt all the small markets causing the chaos... mid-level ones too. Plus, wasnt it the larger markets that broke in '95 and set forth the last decade of spiraling demise?

But, then again.. i'm a jackets fan, and i'd rather see crosby go to the Rags. He's better suited for the media spotlight if he's the heir apparent to the reins of the NHL. I'd gladly take Johnson in compensation.

EDIT: I like these threads by the way -- it's an added change from the hum-drum theories of how the CBA will pan out. For a while there I stopped reading business threads and just hit refresh, hoping for something fresh and exciting. Kudos to the poster.

 

[BlueShirt]

How bout putting an equal amount of ping pong balls for everyone however filling the Rangers one with lead? First ball to drop gets Crosby.

Do it for the good of the game. :lol

 

[futurcorerock]

It's well noted that if Crosby is the true all-around player that he is touted to be... any team could use him/desire him. What if Columbus were to pick him? Would that up the stakes a little bit and open up the bidding wars between all 30 clubs for the kid?

 

[sehnsucht]

I think the most exciting thing to watch would be for Crosby to go to Florida or something and for the teams to open up their futures to get him

can you imagine the rumours? So awesome

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Imagine what it would have been like if Mario was a New York Ranger instead.

True, because NY never gets the big name players in hockey (or any sport for that matter). They really are overdue to have a name player in NY.

 

[Winger98]

what happens IF Tampa Bay wins the lottery and drafts Crosby? ... what then oh mighty one?

I know I wouldn't be against that. I'd like to see Crosby on a team like TB or Ottawa, where he'd be surrounded by a ton of other talanted young players. Maybe they'd force other teams to open up their games a bit to keep up, and we'd have a serious dynasty on our hands and some entertaining hockey. Atlanta might not be a bad fit for him, either, playing next to Kovalchuk and/or Heatley.

 

[futurcorerock]

I know I wouldn't be against that. I'd like to see Crosby on a team like TB or Ottawa, where he'd be surrounded by a ton of other talanted young players. Maybe they'd force other teams to open up their games a bit to keep up, and we'd have a serious dynasty on our hands and some entertaining hockey. Atlanta might not be a bad fit for him, either, playing next to Kovalchuk and/or Heatley.

I think he was just stressing an alternative view: Many of the people who say it should be a fair lottery tend to be fans of the big markets... and to see Crosby go to Tampa Bay would almost be a laughable thing towards those fans.

I concur that Crosby might work on both teams, but he's not a fourth round gem-in-the-rough.. so his chances of ending up on that squad are nil at best.

Hell, i'd laugh

 

[Vomiting Kermit*]

Hey it's fair, WSH got Ovechkin over 1 bad season, they gotta give someone else a turn

:lol

 

[futurcorerock]

Washington definitely doesnt deserve another crack at it. Any team in the league couldve firesaled their team and tanked as bad as they did. Even to this day, i still dont think they shouldve gotten Ovechkin because of how shady that was.

Then again, with me saying that, i'd have to also say that Pittsburgh didnt deserve Lemieux... but what the hell

 

[Mess]

The NHL entry draft, scheduled for June 25 in Ottawa, also hangs in the balance. But one observer indicated he doesn't believe there's much hope for the draft since the two sides aren't close on a deal. That means Ottawa fans will have to wait until 2008.

"There's not going to be a draft. No way," said a league source. "They should just cancel it now and get it over with because they're not going to have an agreement in place and if they do they're going to have a huge fight over who gets the No. 1 pick."

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/OttawaSun/Sports/2005/03/04/949766-sun.html

 

[Chayos]

I know I wouldn't be against that. I'd like to see Crosby on a team like TB or Ottawa, where he'd be surrounded by a ton of other talanted young players. Maybe they'd force other teams to open up their games a bit to keep up, and we'd have a serious dynasty on our hands and some entertaining hockey. Atlanta might not be a bad fit for him, either, playing next to Kovalchuk and/or Heatley.

Those teams would not be able to afford to keep them all in teh new economic reality. The NHL will be better served having the stars filtered throughout the league and making every team competive. Columbus would be a better team to go see when they come to town with crosby than without right? well this way during 42 games team across the league can benifit from him playing for columbus. I thought the goal was to make the league more competitive than have the stars all playing in the big markets like we had in the past.

 

[MontrealSF]

True, because NY never gets the big name players in hockey (or any sport for that matter). They really are overdue to have a name player in NY.

Exactly.

I don't see why NYR should get Crosby. They already had a lot of name player over the years.. Gretzky - Messier - Bure - Lindros - Leetch -Jagr - Kovalev

Not the other teams problem if they are not able to compete on the ice.

New York is the last place I hope Crosby will end up. That and Toronto.

 

[kolanos]

Columbus gets Nash AND Crosby? Is that even allowed?

Atlanta gets Kovalchuk, Heatley and Brule? WHAT?

How much do these teams need to be padded with future stars? I mean seriously. Why not give the likes of the Ducks, Canes, or maybe even my Flames a shot at Crosby?

The Flames have never been in the top 5, not once.

This arrangement seems fair to me though, Washington has a wealth of prospects as it is and they already have their franchise player.

 

[CoolburnIsGone]

I don't have a problem with the weighted lottery using the last 4-5 yrs worth of standing with a caveat. If you've won the lottery to get the #1 pick since the beginning of the lottery (after Ottawa tanked to get Daigle), then you shouldn't be allowed to win this lottery. That would eliminate Florida, Atlanta, the Islanders, Tampa, Boston and Ottawa (remember that Florida won the lottery twice in 2 yrs and traded the pick to Pittsburgh in 03 and Columbus in 02 so that wouldn't affect the teams trading for the pick).

And I don't think its necessary for Crosby to go to Chicago or NY at all. Before the run of the Avs, I don't think anyone would've thought of them as the best place for potential future superstars either. When you add it up, Columbus having Crosby to go along with Nash, Zherdev, Fritsche, Picard & Pineault would be some amazing talent amassed not unlike what Colorado had/has. Its not where the NHL has its talent...its how it markets them once they get there. And the NHL just plain blows at marketing its talent (its a good thing that Crosby is his own PR machine).

 

[Brewleaguer]

The NHL should have a draft this June -- cba or no cba -- and the best basis for draft order should be the cumulative record of the Original 30 over the last FOUR seasons (including late-comers Minny and Columbus).
Following then should be the draft order -- team name, followed by total points over last four seasons.
1. Columbus (252)
2. Atlanta (266)
3. Florida (271)
4. Pitt (288)
5. NY Rangers (299)

6. Chicago (305)
7. Anaheim (306)
8. Nashville (314)
9. Carolina (316)
10. Minnesota (319)

11. Calgary (321)
12. NY Isles (322)
13. Tampa Bay (327)
14. Montreal (327)
15. Phoenix (331)

16. Washington (333)
17. Buffalo (337)
18. Los Angeles (346)
19. Edmonton (366)
20. San Jose (371)

21. Boston (380)
22. Vancouver (389)
23. St. Louis (391)
24. Toronto (391)
25. Dallas (404)

26. Philadelphia (405)
27. New Jersey (414)
28. Ottawa (418)
29. Colorado (422)
30. Detroit (446)

Easy enough, right? Fair. Concise.
Let the drafting begin, followed by the PA's grievance.

kpd/hoh

If they could, I'd say do it in reverse order as a cap system will damage those lower teams the way you have it set. Good players from those team (with a cap system) will flock to those upper listed cities.

 

[R0CKET]

As a Kings fan I must protest a bit.

The last 4 years ties in the 1st two seasons when they were competitive with the last 2 when they have really sucked.

I'd say run the list with the last 2 seasons instead of 4 and then set 3 basic groupings Best - Good - Poor. Give 1 ball to the Best, 2 for the Good, and 3 for the Poor and then run the lottery.

Everyone gets some chance at the prize, but then the draft will at least stratify the basic groups to where they are today.

 

[Gary]

The more I see these types of analysis the more lost I get. Why is any formula needed at all? Who can say where each team would've ended up at the end of the 'would be' hockey season? I think the only fair thing to do is to have a 30-way lottery whereby anyteam could end up in any position IMO. Look at it this way too-Toronto, Philly, Rangers, Detroit-Would this be fair to them if the underdogs all got a better shot at Crosby then them when in all likelyhood those 4 teams will be forced to make major player movement and risk losing 1-2-3? star players off their roster when this thing resumes??

 

[hockeytown9321]

Why does there have to be a CBA?

If the league imposes work conditions -- via impasse - that it can make whatever call it wants vis a vis the draft.
If the league goes on to hammer out a cba with the union, it can make it a condition that it won't agree to a deal unless the PA accepts its draft order, and perhaps even the selections (depending if cba is ratified after the June draft.
The league is still in business, even if it doesn't have a work agreement with its players. The tail has wagged the dog too long, folks.

kpd/hoh

The league can do that, but if the NLRB determines there wasn't an impasse or the league bargained in bad faith, the NHL will face hundreds of unwinnable anti-trust suits from those drafted illegally.

 

[hockeytown9321]

The more I see these types of analysis the more lost I get. Why is any formula needed at all? Who can say where each team would've ended up at the end of the 'would be' hockey season? I think the only fair thing to do is to have a 30-way lottery whereby anyteam could end up in any position IMO. Look at it this way too-Toronto, Philly, Rangers, Detroit-Would this be fair to them if the underdogs all got a better shot at Crosby then them when in all likelyhood those 4 teams will be forced to make major player movement and risk losing 1-2-3? star players off their roster when this thing resumes??

Its funny to me how on one hand everybody talks about how the Red Wings are in decline and not an elite team, and on the other other hand still think they would be drafting last. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Boltsfan2029]

I don't have a problem with the weighted lottery using the last 4-5 yrs worth of standing with a caveat. If you've won the lottery to get the #1 pick since the beginning of the lottery (after Ottawa tanked to get Daigle), then you shouldn't be allowed to win this lottery. That would eliminate Florida, Atlanta, the Islanders, Tampa, Boston and Ottawa (remember that Florida won the lottery twice in 2 yrs and traded the pick to Pittsburgh in 03 and Columbus in 02 so that wouldn't affect the teams trading for the pick).

Eh, Tampa Bay has never won the lottery. We got the #1 pick that we used for Lecavalier via trade.

We also never, ever tanked. We just stank!

 

[Buffaloed]

Assuming there's a 2005-06 season, I'd prefer the draft be pushed back until the All-Star break and the standings at the 41 game point be used to determine the order using the lottery system in the old CBA. Combining All-Star weekend with the draft would give the NHL some much needed positive publicity. It would get a lot more coverage than either event gets on its own.

I'd keep the draft on this schedule permanantly and use the final 41 games of the previous season plus the first 41 games of the following season to determine the selection order in subsequent drafts. The NHL could still hold a June draft to handle unsigned players who re-enter the draft.