Hockey is dying!!
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Until they actually sit down to take in a U.S domestic soccer league game this year.
Then their opinion will switch back.
It's OK, but do you know what best about soccer? It's an atmosphere. Lot's of Veikkausliiga games are played in summer so the weather is often good. Go out and go to the games. Wear your team shirt, take a few beer (if you like), sing, clap your hands, support your team and enjoy!
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I like Norway, Denmark and Hungary. They are very intresting hockey countries, But Norway's hockey league has long way to go. When you compare it to Norway's soccer league. Third rate finnish players, who can't make finnish SM-Liiga teams anymore are star players in the Norway's hockey league.
Nothing personal, but you come off on this board as an insufferable know-it-all. Look it up yourself.
Almost only North Americans, think that soccer is a boring.
Hockey is like a masturbation. Soccer is like a sex with long foreplay. Be a patient you get your reward! In Soccer every goal is a huge.
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Drewr15
Registered User
I have to really disagree with that statement, growing up in the 70s and 80s, hockey was a fringe sport and other than Gretzky nobody knew any names and yet everyone knew Irving, Magic, Bird, Kareem, etc. I'd also like to see some numbers to show the Bruins outdrawing the Celtics as I highly doubt that.
I agree the NHL marketing is horrible and they are still paying for the decision to go on Sportschannel in the 80s but to say they were ahead of basketball is a stretch.
This is what I mean when I say soccer's best part is an atmosphere. This is from Sweden (Hammarby). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO80Mf88kSo
Sotnos
Registered User
Just when you think this thread can't get any worse...
No one here cares that soccer is more popular worldwide than hockey. Go discuss it on a soccer site somewhere.
chiavsfan
Registered User
That's because soccer is boring. Not to mention the diving which, for those that think it's rampant in hockey, is even worse in soccer. A guy sees a blade of grass that isn't right, he goes down like he just got shot with a cannon.
As for the sport itself, it will continue to gain popularity amongst kids and adults with children because of its cost (pretty much 0)... but when it comes down to watching it, it's never going to be mainstream, because yeah...it may be fun to play, but it's excruciating to watch
Hammarby fans were singing their version of Horto Magiko. Here's Panathinaikos (Greece) (original version) this is from basketball game, but they sing this also in soccer games. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGmgSU8bTPk&NR
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www.paperofrecord.com has free access to every issue of the Sporting News since 1886 and that paper printed box scores with attendance of every game in the big 4 sportsl leagues until the late 80s/early 90s, at least. NBA attendance compared with the NHL was awful for a long, long time; don't let current realities impact a fair review of history. If you go to the site, you'll see what I mean. I browsed through a random issue from January 1978 and the NBA attendances in the issue I looked at were beyond pathetic.
There may be other web sites that post NBA/NHL yearly average attendances, too.
I know it's just North Americans,but he's talking about North Americans not Europeans. And they'll find LOT's of games in the US soccer league boring................the rest of the worlds opinion non-withstanding.They don't really care what europeans think about the game.They make their own decisions.
And sometimes you get your reward with soccer,but a lot of games you just end up with blue balls IMO.
It's impossible for me to understand anyone who grew up in hockey areas of North America EVER enjoying soccer more than hockey (and I don't believe they actually do, media nonsense notwithstanding). Both have the same objective -- putting an object into a goal -- and no one will ever convince me that the action supporting that object, and the talent of the athletes who engage in that action, is more compelling to watch with soccer than hockey.
And I actually kind of like soccer, especially the EPL.
How soccer gets a pass for failing in North America -- which it did -- while at the same time the NHL's image is of a fading dinosaur, is incomprehensible, and the NHL office needs to look closely at how this came to pass.
Because the games are so similar, every soccer fan is a potential hockey fan, at least IMHO. That's a concept that is way too complicated for the NHL office to understand though, I'm sure.
Except for the American showoffs who try to show their worldliness by adopting soccer as "their sport." That's the core soccer fan in the US.
That's about it,same up here in Canada too.It's kind of hip to be a superficial fan of (mostly) international soccer these days.but that's all it mostly is,wear the national colours of some team with a nice tan.............impress the gals. Do they get their ass out of bed on saturday mornings to sit through a Tottingham-Arsenal game? lol....................very few do.
They don't care. it's all mostly fluff.
And you come across as an arrogant jackass that cannot abide by someone who disagrees with you and (even more) commits the unpardonable offense of challenging your positions. Of course, people sometimes come across differently on the web than they are in real life, so maybe you are not such an annoying guy face to face. Who knows?
Nothing personal. I appreciate your opinion as to how I come across to you. Fortunately for me, your opinion carries zero weight.
I HAD looked it up when I originally asked, and could not find data that fully supports your theory. In some cases it is correct, and in other cases not. I accordingly gave you the opportunity to substantiate your position. To be frank, I would have liked to get a link to more historical attendance figures and thought you might have some.
Since you demonstrated little credibility in the past on NHL business topics, and since you take such offense to providing a link, I can only conclude that you are making it up to bolster your agenda. Why would anyone conclude differently, based on your response?
Edit: I see above that you responded with a link above. Presumably you could have done so before, unless you were talking out of your a** initially and my question spurred you to find evidence (which I believe is more likely the case). If that is not the case and you had a link when you replied to me, and simply declined to provide it, what is the matter with you, sir?
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Why not? In Europe: Hockey is very popular in Sweden, but soccer is even more popular and in Russia hockey is semi popular but soccer is much more popular etc.. So in European countries where you can choose hockey or soccer, easily over 50% chose soccer.
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Drewr15
Registered User
First off great site, thanks for posting it. It was to much work to look on there but I found a site called kenn.com that had average attendance and the difference is not what you think at all. Unfortunately the Bruins attendance is not available until 78-79 but here they are with links
Boston Bruins 1978-79 40 519,444 12,986
Boston Bruins 1979-80 40 494,633 12,366
Boston Bruins 1980-81 40 446,903 11,173
Boston Bruins 1981-82 40 480,989 12,025
Boston Bruins 1982-83 40 530,870 13,272
Boston Bruins 1983-84 40 543,534 13,588
Boston Bruins 1984-85 40 530,297 13,257
Boston Bruins 1985-86 40 497,277 12,432
Boston Bruins 1986-87 40 485,159 12,129
Boston Bruins 1987-88 40 548,301 13,708
Boston Bruins 1988-89 40 563,730 14,093
Boston Bruins 1989-90 40 572,571 14,314
http://www.kenn.com/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl_bos_attendance.html
Boston Celtics 1978-79 41 417,926 10,193
Boston Celtics 1979-80 41 596,349 14,545
Boston Celtics 1980-81 41 595,444 14,523
Boston Celtics 1981-82 41 0
Boston Celtics 1982-83 41 621,829 15,167
Boston Celtics 1983-84 41 606,857 14,801
Boston Celtics 1984-85 41 610,727 14,896
Boston Celtics 1985-86 41 610,581 14,892
Boston Celtics 1986-87 41 611,222 14,908
Boston Celtics 1987-88 41 611,222 14,908
Boston Celtics 1988-89 41 611,537 14,916
Boston Celtics 1989-90 41 611,537 14,916
http://www.kenn.com/sports/basketball/nba/nba_bos_attendance.html
Not regarding the 81 82 season where for some reason Celtics info is not shown, the Bruins only outdrew the Celtics for the 78-79 season in that period. So i'm sorry but I again disagree that the NHL was light years ahead of the NBA in major cities back then.
Fair enough -- you seem to dispute practically everything I say rather tersely and don't seem to concede things I thought wouldn't really be in dispute. I'll assume you're truly a "show me" person and that's all you mean.
You're right, NHL historical attendance is tougher to find than I thought it would be, other than reviewing Sporting News's, which won't give you averages, at least not very easily. Ancedotal evidence is only anecdotal. The "Kenn" site is good for NHL averages, but for some reason doesn't go back very far with some teams, even Original Six teams.
I did some more quickie research to put numbers on the anecdotes. I count six cities that had both NBA and NHL teams during the period 1970 to 1990 -- Boston, Chicago, Detroit, New York, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia. I noted numbers for that period in five year intervals, 1969-70, 1974-75, 1979-80, etc.
Unfortunately, only one city has easily accessable data for every data point -- Philadelphia. The Flyers win easily, at every date: 13,372 to 8,210 in 1970; 17,077 to 7,237 in 1975; 17,077 to 11,701 in 1980, 16,951 to 13,965 in 1985; 17,407 to 14,017 in 1990.
Here are the basketball numbers for every city, in chronological order. They strike me as self-evidently bested by hockey everywhere but Los Angeles, and maybe New York in the early 70s. Remember that where teams share buildings a hockey sell out will be several hundred fans less than a basketball sellout (not that basketball was ever in danger of selling out practically everywhere until the 1990 data point.)
Boston (coming off winning ten or so titles before 1970 and a couple more in the mid-70s):
7,504; 11,680; 14,545; 14,896; 14,916
We have Bruins figures for the last three and they aren't as good: 12,366; 13,257; 14,314. The Celts and Bruins sold out the season in 1990; Celts win 1980 and 1985; Bruins almost certainly win 1970 and 1975.
Chicago:
10,050; 10,704; 8,868; 11,887; 18,404.
Blackhawks also sold out the building in 1990. Landslide Blackhawks each of the other 4, though no certain data.
Detroit:
4,412; 7,492; 8,128; 16,867; 21,454
Red Wings sold out JLA in 1990, 19,531. Pistons may have won in 1985. Detroit's lucky they didn't lose the team in the 70s with those embarrassing figures.
New York (probably the most beloved team in MSG history was the 1970 Knicks):
18,566; 18,566; 12,405; 11,154; 17,815.
Rangers in 1990: 16,238. Less than Knicks. No data but Rangers almost certainly way ahead in '80 and '85. Knicks sold out the building in '70 and '75; Rangers must have been close, but unproven.
Los Angeles:
13,086; 11,567; 14,217; 14,941; 17,378.
Kings were 15,707 in 1990, less than the Lakers.
Just for fun, I looked at Buffalo which had teams in both leagues in the 2 70s data points. Sabres in a landslide -- 9721 to 4977 in 1970; 15668 to 11397 in 1975. Basketball left Buffalo in the 70s; hockey continues to thrive in 2007.
Washington/Baltimore had teams in both leagues most of the data time, but I didn't bother.
I think the initial point that NBA attendance really didn't catch up to hockey until some time in the late 80s/early 90s is a solid one, but everyone can draw their own conclusions. There's no question, IMHO, that hockey has lost serious ground to basketball since the early 70s.
FYI, here's the site I used for the NBA numbers, so my work can be checked:
http://members.aol.com/bradleyrd/attendance.html
http://members.aol.com/bradleyrd/attendance.html
Look at the Attendance Averages for Celtics games to Bruins games now. Let me remind you that the Celtics suck MORE than the bruins too.
On top of that, I should also point out to those of you that seem to forget, that the NBA is not a gate driven league anymore.
On top of that, I should also point out to those of you that seem to forget, that the NBA is not a gate driven league anymore.
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