Rumor: Hearing the Blues big names are on the block, "everything is open, even Vladimir Tarasenko"

[TheMadHatTrick]

I don’t think you understand desperation. We are desperate to win, not to rebuild. That being said, I see no reason in hell why we would be “desperate” to trade Parayko within the next couple of years. If you want us in desperation mode wait to see what happens at next years tdl with Schenn/Pietrangelo if they aren’t extended before then.

If we were to take a desperation trade it would more than likely be on one of Steen/Bouwmeester/Bozak. All of which I’m not sure if they have any value due to contract term causing a bit of a mess when trading them.

What would it take to get Parayko. I think we have the assets to get it done.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

that's like two packages worth Parayko rolled into one. Blues are the desperate team, they won't get an overpayment like that

It's maybe one piece over value at most not two packages. Of all the guys on the roster Parayko is the guy they're least likely to trade (on contract for 4 years at 5.5M) so it would take an overpay to get him. Petro is a different story.

 

[BleedBlue14]

What would it take to get Parayko. I think we have the assets to get it done.

A reason to trade him... Right now I don't see that we have one. I would assume although probably would take something special to move the players, Tarasenko (NMC kicks in this offseason), Pietrangelo (UFA in 1.5 years), Schenn (UFA 1.5 years) would be the only "core" pieces in which we would actually test the market for. I still highly doubt that would mean accepting trades for future assets in return for them.

I just don't see a realistic scenario in which Parayko is actually available outside of a massive return that you can't really refuse.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Which I can supersize with, but if you did go full rebuild would that actually matter all that much?

Sympathize?

 

[The Moose is Loose]

They have some nice young pieces. Their core is in their primes right now, and if they can’t win in the next year or 2, I highly doubt they will. So burning it to the ground might not be the worst idea ever.

ROR or Schenn to Nashville/Winnipeg/Carolina
Parayko to Edmonton
Pietrangelo to Toronto
Tarasenko to Colorado

Then plan on competing for the cup 3 years from now.

 

[cgf]

Sympathize?

Idiocracy (2006) - IMDb

 

[seanlinden]

Please point to a deal where a tweener #1/#2 defenseman was traded for a tweener #1/#2 Winger straight up. With Pietrangelo being out the last few games, Parayko has elevated his game even more and continues to prove that he is closer to a #1 than a #2.

If Parayko is going to the Leafs for Nylander, there is definitely a 1st+ coming back the other way. Your argument about cost control years is also nonsense. That's also potentially more years that Nylander could be overpaid if he continues to the play at the pace that he's been on this season. Right now, Parayko is the cheaper and better player. You aren't going to a get a 1 for 1 deal unless it's Marner or Matthews coming back, and we all know how Leafs fan's feel about those two types of deals.

Hall-Larsson... and that deal is widely viewed as a terrible trade where the team that got the winger won huge.

With respect to Nylander's contract -- yes, he's overpaid by the standard of his comparables at RFA deals (Ehlers, etc.), however, as the cap continues to rise over the next 5 years, and he continues to improve, he will become vastly underpaid as the contract goes on... just like Parayko.

Difference is that Parayko has 3 full seasons left of being almost certainly underpaid, Nylander has 5.

 

[Snowman]

Hall-Larsson... and that deal is widely viewed as a terrible trade where the team that got the winger won huge.

With respect to Nylander's contract -- yes, he's overpaid by the standard of his comparables at RFA deals (Ehlers, etc.), however, as the cap continues to rise over the next 5 years, and he continues to improve, he will become vastly underpaid as the contract goes on... just like Parayko.

Difference is that Parayko has 3 full seasons left of being almost certainly underpaid, Nylander has 5.

One major difference though is Nylander is nowhere near the winger Hall was and is.

 

[Blueston]

They have some nice young pieces. Their core is in their primes right now, and if they can’t win in the next year or 2, I highly doubt they will. So burning it to the ground might not be the worst idea ever.

ROR or Schenn to Nashville/Winnipeg/Carolina
Parayko to Edmonton
Pietrangelo to Toronto
Tarasenko to Colorado

Then plan on competing for the cup 3 years from now.

If we trade all of our best players how are we supposed to compete for Cup in 3 years?

 

[seanlinden]

One major difference though is Nylander is nowhere near the winger Hall was and is.

That trade is universally regarded as terrible for the Oilers... and in this case, the Leafs would be taking place of the Oilers, with the Blues taking place of the Devils.

Furthermore, yes, Hall is better than Nylander. However, before being traded, Hall was a veteran of 381 games coming off the following seasons:
65 points in 82 games
38 points in 53 games (58 point pace)
53 points in 75 games
80 points in 75 games
50 points in 45 games (91 point pace)
53 points in 61 games (71 point pace)

If somebody had objectively asked, what can we reasonably expect out of Taylor Hall at the time, it would have probably been around 60-65 points over a full season. Even his first year in NJ -- 53 points in 72 games, a pace of 60 points.

Nylander has 2 full seasons under his belt, and put up 61 in each of them. In his abbreviated rookie year, he paced just under 50 points.

I was asked for a benchmark winger-for-defenceman trade.

Sure, Parayko is better than Larsson, and Hall is better than Nylander; but I think we can all agree, NJ does that trade 10 times again, Edmonton wouldn't.

 

[Snowman]

That trade is universally regarded as terrible for the Oilers... and in this case, the Leafs would be taking place of the Oilers, with the Blues taking place of the Devils.

Furthermore, yes, Hall is better than Nylander. However, before being traded, Hall was a veteran of 381 games coming off the following seasons:
65 points in 82 games
38 points in 53 games (58 point pace)
53 points in 75 games
80 points in 75 games
50 points in 45 games (91 point pace)
53 points in 61 games (71 point pace)

If somebody had objectively asked, what can we reasonably expect out of Taylor Hall at the time, it would have probably been around 60-65 points over a full season. Even his first year in NJ -- 53 points in 72 games, a pace of 60 points.

Nylander has 2 full seasons under his belt, and put up 61 in each of them. In his abbreviated rookie year, he paced just under 50 points.

I was asked for a benchmark winger-for-defenceman trade.

Sure, Parayko is better than Larsson, and Hall is better than Nylander; but I think we can all agree, NJ does that trade 10 times again, Edmonton wouldn't.

I agree that NJ would do the trade and Edmonton wouldn't. However, saying the Leafs would be taking the Oilers place is wrong. The Leafs are giving a much lower grade winger and getting a defenseman that would be comparable to Larsson. So, the value isn't nearly as lopsided.

I'm not saying it is or isn't a good idea for Toronto to do this. I'm just saying if you want a quality player you need to give up a quality player. Which this deal at least does.

 

[WhoTagz]

How much would Schenn cost?

Lehtera and 2 firsts

 

[Coach Parker]

I cannot see the Bruins holding out much longer.

 

[seanlinden]

I agree that NJ would do the trade and Edmonton wouldn't. However, saying the Leafs would be taking the Oilers place is wrong. The Leafs are giving a much lower grade winger and getting a defenseman that would be comparable to Larsson. So, the value isn't nearly as lopsided.

I'm not saying it is or isn't a good idea for Toronto to do this. I'm just saying if you want a quality player you need to give up a quality player. Which this deal at least does.

The Leafs would be taking the Oilers place in the context that they are giving up a winger and sending a defenceman.

That's not me arguing against the concept of a Nylander-Parayko straight up swap. That's me saying that it was a comparable deal, where Edmonton lost big time, so if Toronto gives up a slightly worse winger, for a slightly better defenceman, (assume Hall>Nylander and Parayko>Larrson) you're probably pretty close to an even trade.

That being said,with respect to the Hall-Nylander debate... I'm not so sure that Hall is that much better / more valuable than Nylander. Consider the fact that over the previous 3 seasons, he produced at basically the exact same pace - 60 points. 2 1/2 seasons ago, he came with a contract that had 4 years left at $6m (8.2% of the $73m cap). Nylander has 5 1/2 years left on his deal that pays him $7m on a cap of $79.5m (8.8%). If we ignore this year's cap considerations and assume the $83m cap for next year, Nylander is 8.4% of the cap with 5 years remaining.

I think it would be fair to say that Nylander has a better contract situation, and also more upside than Hall was viewed to have at the point in time he was traded.

Personally, as a Leaf fan, I'm all for a straight up trade. I balk at the concept of Nylander + Toronto's 1st for Parayko, but if the Blues can tick something else off the shopping list as part of the deal (say, Maroon); I think that's a trade which makes a fair bit of sense.

 

[StLHokie]

The Leafs would be taking the Oilers place in the context that they are giving up a winger and sending a defenceman.

That's not me arguing against the concept of a Nylander-Parayko straight up swap. That's me saying that it was a comparable deal, where Edmonton lost big time, so if Toronto gives up a slightly worse winger, for a slightly better defenceman, (assume Hall>Nylander and Parayko>Larrson) you're probably pretty close to an even trade.

That being said,with respect to the Hall-Nylander debate... I'm not so sure that Hall is that much better / more valuable than Nylander. Consider the fact that over the previous 3 seasons, he produced at basically the exact same pace - 60 points. 2 1/2 seasons ago, he came with a contract that had 4 years left at $6m (8.2% of the $73m cap). Nylander has 5 1/2 years left on his deal that pays him $7m on a cap of $79.5m (8.8%). I think it would be fair to say that Nylander has a better contract situation, and also more upside than Hall was viewed to have at the point in time he was traded.

Personally, as a Leaf fan, I'm all for a straight up trade. I balk at the concept of Nylander + Toronto's 1st for Parayko, but if the Blues can tick something else off the shopping list as part of the deal (say, Maroon); I think that's a trade which makes a fair bit of sense.

Well as Blues fans, many of us balk at the notion of a straight up 1 for 1 trade. So we'll keep Parayko and Toronto can continue to search for a #1 defenseman

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Well as Blues fans, many of us balk at the notion of a straight up 1 for 1 trade. So we'll keep Parayko and Toronto can continue to search for a #1 defenseman

Don't the Leafs have a #1 in Reilly?

 

[Weiss1604]

The Leafs would be taking the Oilers place in the context that they are giving up a winger and sending a defenceman.

That's not me arguing against the concept of a Nylander-Parayko straight up swap. That's me saying that it was a comparable deal, where Edmonton lost big time, so if Toronto gives up a slightly worse winger, for a slightly better defenceman, (assume Hall>Nylander and Parayko>Larrson) you're probably pretty close to an even trade.

That being said,with respect to the Hall-Nylander debate... I'm not so sure that Hall is that much better / more valuable than Nylander. Consider the fact that over the previous 3 seasons, he produced at basically the exact same pace - 60 points. 2 1/2 seasons ago, he came with a contract that had 4 years left at $6m (8.2% of the $73m cap). Nylander has 5 1/2 years left on his deal that pays him $7m on a cap of $79.5m (8.8%). If we ignore this year's cap considerations and assume the $83m cap for next year, Nylander is 8.4% of the cap with 5 years remaining.

I think it would be fair to say that Nylander has a better contract situation, and also more upside than Hall was viewed to have at the point in time he was traded.

Personally, as a Leaf fan, I'm all for a straight up trade. I balk at the concept of Nylander + Toronto's 1st for Parayko, but if the Blues can tick something else off the shopping list as part of the deal (say, Maroon); I think that's a trade which makes a fair bit of sense.

Tell you what forget the whole defenceman conversation as both sides are never in a million years going to agree on a deal . However seeing as you brought up Maroon & it's a giving, generous time of year , we offer you one Patrick Maroon all we require is our 4th back this year or if like me you are feeling particularly generous too you can give us a 3rd instead . What say you fans from hockey's meca , it is Christmas after all .......

 

[wintersej]

I cannot see the Bruins holding out much longer.

They will hold out until Bergeron/Chara are back.

 

[Takasugi]

Don't the Leafs have a #1 in Reilly?

Ya and hes way better than parayko too.

 

[hector morrison]

One major difference though is Nylander is nowhere near the winger Hall was and is.

In 15/16 and 16/17 Willy was quite comparable,considering the niumber of years each has been in the League ,there is still time for Willy to improve on those numbers. So to spout that he is "no where near' is showing your anti Leaf bias and not much else.

 

[wintersej]

In 15/16 and 16/17 Willy was quite comparable,considering the niumber of years each has been in the League ,there is still time for Willy to improve on those numbers. So to spout that he is "no where near' is showing your anti Leaf bias and not much else.

Nylander is a secondary piece on the Leafs. Come on.

 

[hector morrison]

Nylander is a secondary piece on the Leafs. Come on.

The numbers are what they are and hes 22 with 2 60 point seasons . I think most fans of any team would like to have him and would expect those numbers to increase. In the next 4 or 5 years he may put up similar numbers to Halls best year. My response was mainly driven by the exaggeration of Willy being 'no where near as good' .That's all really.

 

[Kotkaniemi15]

If you guys wanted to move Vince Dunn, what would the cost be?

 

[rumrokh]

If you guys wanted to move Vince Dunn, what would the cost be?

Not a guy they'd just sell. It'd have to be in a package for an upgrade young defenseman.

 

[Kotkaniemi15]

Not a guy they'd just sell. It'd have to be in a package for an upgrade young defenseman.

Understandable. Definitely not a guy you’d want to sell low on.