Hawks of Yesteryear Part II - Madden AHL 17

[Hawkaholic]

That statement? Nothing. That's not what I was responding too though.

Uhh, that's what the whole argument was about. .

 

[Hawkaholic]

You're entitled to wrong opinions. It's always entertaining when someone is dug in so deep that he'd rather carry on an obviously faulty argument rather than admit he is incorrect.

Please show me where I am wrong.

 

[hawksrule]

Please show me where I am wrong.

You cherry picked data to make your numbers work. And then you deflected by whining that you're not allowed an opinion.

 

[Hawkaholic]

You cherry picked data to make your numbers work. And then you deflected by whining that you're not allowed an opinion.

No I didn't, I simply said that I don't think he is the player he was in MTL (where he picked up those stats), I think he is more the player he has been outside of MTL.

An opinion that so far has been proven correct by his play since he has left MTL (5pts in 42GP)

Try again.

 

[hawksrule]

It's all there on the last page, but keep whining.

 

[Hawkaholic]

It's all there on the last page, but keep whining.

Yeah, the numbers on the last page support my opinion that he isn't what he was in MTL...next.

 

[BK]

Yeah, the numbers on the last page support my opinion that he isn't what he was in MTL...next.

They don't at all actually. They support a player that has improved each year and entered his prime 2 years ago. You are really just embarrassing yourself at this point mann

 

[Hawkaholic]

They don't at all actually. They support a player that has improved each year and entered his prime 2 years ago. You are really just embarrassing yourself at this point mann

They show me a player that has been a 20pt max player his whole career outside of MTL.

 

[BK]

They show me a player that has been a 20pt max player his whole career outside of MTL.

He spent 40% of his career there.

You said his seasons were a fluke and were proven wrong. Now you try and change the line. Amazing.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Uhh, that's what the whole argument was about. .

Generalities man. I don't care enough about Dale Weise to keep going but you've cooked the books more than a mob accountant and then when that was pointed out you said that I was telling you not to have an opinion.

 

[Hawkaholic]

He spent 40% of his career there.

You said his seasons were a fluke and were proven wrong. Now you try and change the line. Amazing.

How was I proven wrong? This year he is back to the player he was before Montreal.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Generalities man. I don't care enough about Dale Weise to keep going but you've cooked the books more than a mob accountant and then when that was pointed out you said that I was telling you not to have an opinion.

I posted his stats outside of Montreal to show BK what his career has been like outside of Montreal, including this year, and last year in Chicago. In my opinion, he had a couple of fluke years in Montreal that won't be replicated. And so far, that has been right based off of his play since he was traded from Montreal.

That was my whole argument.

 

[BK]

How was I proven wrong? This year he is back to the player he was before Montreal.

I showed you the trend of his career. Each year it showed improvement and they were not unreasonable jumps. You said it was a fluke but the stat show it was not. You are just being stubborn and are blatantly wrong.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I showed you the trend of his career. Each year it showed improvement and they were not unreasonable jumps. You said it was a fluke but the stat show it was not. You are just being stubborn and are blatantly wrong.

And I showed you how that trend was debunked after he left Montreal.

 

[BK]

And I showed you how that trend was debunked after he left Montreal.

By using a small sample. This is the single worst way to look at things statistically.

 

[Hawkaholic]

By using a small sample. This is the single worst way to look at things statistically.

46GP since he left MTL is hardly a small sample, plus the 200 or so games before MTL.

Like I said, if he scores more than 20pts, like around 25+ this year, I will say you were right, but I don't see him going on a 0.5pt/gm pace the rest of the year to reach that mark.

 

[BK]

46GP since he left MTL is hardly a small sample, plus the 200 or so games before MTL.

Like I said, if he scores more than 20pts, like around 25+ this year, I will say you were right, but I don't see him going on a 0.5pt/gm pace the rest of the year to reach that mark.

So his 15 games with the Hawks where Q refused to play him and 27 games with Philly are more of a story that the 5 seasons of information that he compiled before. You really can't be trying to argue this because this is one of the worst was to look at this information possible.

If you want to say he is possible trending down go for it but you other argument is wrong and the fact you are having to slice and dice data to even come close is just pathetic. Just let it go because you are wrong and have been proven wrong. I am sure you will come back with another slice of data that you try and use to support your incorrect theory.

 

[Hawkaholic]

So his 15 games with the Hawks where Q refused to play him and 27 games with Philly are more of a story that the 5 seasons of information that he compiled before. You really can't be trying to argue this because this is one of the worst was to look at this information possible.

If you want to say he is possible trending down go for it but you other argument is wrong and the fact you are having to slice and dice data to even come close is just pathetic. Just let it go because you are wrong and have been proven wrong. I am sure you will come back with another slice of data that you try and use to support your incorrect theory.

5 seasons of information before that? He wasn't a 0.38pt/gm player 5 seasons before this one, he was a 0.38pt/gm player for 2 seasons, both in MTL. He isn't a 0.38pt/gm player, period.

I haven't been proven wrong on anything, but I am done with this conversation.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Take it to pm'd. No more blood to get out of that rock.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

So his 15 games with the Hawks where Q refused to play him and 27 games with Philly are more of a story that the 5 seasons of information that he compiled before. You really can't be trying to argue this because this is one of the worst was to look at this information possible.

If you want to say he is possible trending down go for it but you other argument is wrong and the fact you are having to slice and dice data to even come close is just pathetic. Just let it go because you are wrong and have been proven wrong. I am sure you will come back with another slice of data that you try and use to support your incorrect theory.

5 seasons of information before that? He wasn't a 0.38pt/gm player 5 seasons before this one, he was a 0.38pt/gm player for 2 seasons, both in MTL. He isn't a 0.38pt/gm player, period.

I haven't been proven wrong on anything, but I am done with this conversation.

I don't care one way or another about Weise but, Hawkaholic is closer to the reality than some others.

There is NO upward trend of his ppg and for some reason his best 2 seasons were with MTL, to date those seasons have not been replicated. To find a trend in those stats is really squinting to see something one has already convinced themselves of.

.16 for 221 games and .41 for 135 games does not a career .38 ppg player make.

 

[BK]

I don't care one way or another about Weise but, Hawkaholic is closer to the reality than some others.

There is NO upward trend of his ppg and for some reason his best 2 seasons were with MTL, to date those seasons have not been replicated. To find a trend in those stats is really squinting to see something one has already convinced themselves of.

.16 for 221 games and .41 for 135 games does not a career .38 ppg player make.

Did you even read the thread? Because your response indicates you didn't. No one is saying he is a .38 ppg career player. Hawkaholic said the two season in Montreal were flukes and the rest responded with data that proved Hawkaholic to be wrong.

Not a trend? Try reading the thread and also tell me how the increases in PPG are not a trend. It is a constant uptick in production. Sorry but in life and business this is what you call a trend. Getting increased production when you get increased playing time is a normal thing.

2010-11: 10 GP .00 PPG (I do not count this season)
2011-12: 68 GP .12 PPG
2012-13: 40 GP .15 PPG
2013-14: 61 GP .26 PPG
2014-15: 79 GP .37 PPG
2015-16: 71 GP .38 PPG
2016-17: Season not finished.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I don't care one way or another about Weise but, Hawkaholic is closer to the reality than some others.

There is NO upward trend of his ppg and for some reason his best 2 seasons were with MTL, to date those seasons have not been replicated. To find a trend in those stats is really squinting to see something one has already convinced themselves of.

.16 for 221 games and .41 for 135 games does not a career .38 ppg player make.

.

 

[Hawkaholic]

No one is saying he is a .38 ppg career player. Hawkaholic said the two season in Montreal were flukes and the rest responded with data that proved Hawkaholic to be wrong.
g.

The bolded is exactly what my whole argument was, that Weise is not a 0.38pt/gm player.

No data has proved that wrong as of yet. The only way it can be proven wrong is if he goes and gets ~0.38pts/gm this year, and at least another year or two after this one.

 

[BK]

The bolded is exactly what my whole argument was, that Weise is not a 0.38pt/gm player.

No data has proved that wrong as of yet. The only way it can be proven wrong is if he goes and gets ~0.38pts/gm this year, and at least another year or two after this one.

No the whole point was that the season with Montreal was a fluke. This was your original statement. His production at this rate happened two years in a row. This is what proves you wrong. Don't even try and move the bar.

The data shows when given the chances/playing time he produces at a .38 ppg rate.

It is like you didn't even read responses from people and just blindly responded.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Did you even read the thread? Because your response indicates you didn't. No one is saying he is a .38 ppg career player. Hawkaholic said the two season in Montreal were flukes and the rest responded with data that proved Hawkaholic to be wrong.

Not a trend? Try reading the thread and also tell me how the increases in PPG are not a trend. It is a constant uptick in production. Sorry but in life and business this is what you call a trend. Getting increased production when you get increased playing time is a normal thing.

That trend, is based on partial seasons and the move on the first 2 is insignificant, even from year 2-3 looks good from a ppg standpoint but is pretty meaningless. Over the 50 game average the difference is 8 points. Not a big deal.

All that does is make the MTL years look like even bigger outliers.

When dealing with such small numbers, the ppg difference is not very valuable. A guy goes from 8 points to 12. WOW a 50% increase. You get my drift.