Have the canucks quietly built up a solid prospect pool?

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

God help the guy we draft at #7 this year...It shouldn't take too long for the instant gratification crowd on here to start hacking the guy to pieces...Maybe a couple of bad meaningless exhibition games?

 

[jeromemorrow]

A) Quietly? How can it be quiet when the Canucks are the #1 thing we talk about in Vancouver sports... sometimes so much so that it causes enmity from local fans of other sports when you utter the words of Canucks around them and/or the rancor of jaded fans who have abandoned ship already in the past 4 to 50 years?


Our defence sucks yes... but with the FA experiments, we've finally settled on Del Zotto (28 yrs old)... we've traded & signed so far (Gudbranson (26 yrs old) & drafted & developed Hutton @ 25 yrs old w/ 1 year remaining and signed & developed Stecher w/ him remaining as a RFA this summer... traded & re-developed waiver projects such as Pouliot who is also a RFAs this summer (both Stecher & Pouliot @ 24 yrs old).

So as the team is currently structured, we don't really need a huge influx of youth guys... ('insulation')

Whether the team as it is currently structured,
Edler - Tanev
Del Zotto - Gudbranson
Hutton - Stecher*
Pouliot
*RFA

is good enough to compete, we can discuss another thread.

We currently have:

• Juolevi LHS signed $894,166 3 yr ELC (20 yrs old) contract not burned and yet to be activated - drafted 1st rd 5th overall in 2016 draft
• Guillaume Brisebois LHS signed & burned 1st of 3 yrs ELC $697,500 ELC - drafted 3rd rd 66th overall in 2015 draft (the pick acquired for Eddie Lack) (20 yrs old)
• Jalen Chatfield - overage FA signing last summer after he played his year w/ Windsor - RHS signed & burned 1st of 3 yrs ELC $765,000 (21 yrs old)

If Juolevi can overtake Edler at some point in the next 2 to 6 years, that's a win right there imo and that's the beauty of the pick for long term picture and in terms of 'safety'.


I kind of want to see Pouliot and Stecher on our power play in the future... and hopefully of course not take too many bad defensive plays as well ..

Juolevi - ???
Edler / Pouliot - Gudbranson / Stecher
Pouliot - Stecher / Gudbranson

Perfectly content with adding any of either Bouchard or Dobson... or even Boqvist in this year's draft @ 7th overall

Should we consider how Juolevi would pair with the pick we draft? Or should we draft offensive upside in the hopes that it'll pan out and become that all-coveted #1 D....?

From the 2017 draft, we still have the rights to:
Jack Rathbone LHS (4th round 95th pick in 2017)
According to, https://thehockeywriters.com/jack-rathbone-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/
NHL Potential
NHL insiders project Rathbone will serve as organizational depth while he develops muscle mass. His elite footwork will enable Rathbone time to gain strength. With patience, scouts believe Rathbone will ease his way into becoming a top-six defenseman.

Kristoffer Gunnarsson LHS (5th 135th pick in 2017) - 21 years old who plays on the fringe for Frolunda in SHL

Matthew Brassard RHS (7th 188th pick in 2017) - 20 yrs old who had a pretty great season 51 pts in 67 games.


It's not TOO bad in a year or two... I was surprised they didn't re-up Cole Candella though but oh wells, I think the Canucks are heading in the right direction... they have a refined sense in their direction of guys that they want to draft and build around on the team that they're trying to put together and that's great... just got to let TIME play itself out...

 

[jeromemorrow]

Agree 100%

 

[CanaFan]

God help the guy we draft at #7 this year...It shouldn't take too long for the instant gratification crowd on here to start hacking the guy to pieces...Maybe a couple of bad meaningless exhibition games?

Good call. Remember when everybody crapped all over Boeser? And then there was Pettersson. Boy did we ever hack those guys to pieces. Nothing can please us Vancouver fans. We’re rabid beasts.

 

[varano]

By that logic, players like McDavid, Laine and Matthews are still prospects. The general consensus is that a player who has remained on an active NHL roster for the better part of a season is no longer considered a prospect.

Well... Mcdavid does have his next contract already.

 

[Harry Rag]

No doubt, and don't forget how all the haters have been pissing all over other top prospects like Dahlen, Demko, and Gaudette too.

 

[CanaFan]

No doubt, and don't forget how all the haters have been pissing all over other top prospects like Dahlen, Demko, and Gaudette too.

Euphoric optimism is the only valid emotion after all.

 

[Kryten]

By that logic, players like McDavid, Laine and Matthews are still prospects. The general consensus is that a player who has remained on an active NHL roster for the better part of a season is no longer considered a prospect.

I see where youre coming from but McDavid is finished his ELC now. If we use a metric like you suggest; Virtanen and McCann were no longer prospects in 2015/16 despite playing a majoity of the 2016/17 season in the AHL

 

[RandV]

By that logic, players like McDavid, Laine and Matthews are still prospects. The general consensus is that a player who has remained on an active NHL roster for the better part of a season is no longer considered a prospect.

I'd think when you get into the discussion of a teams "prospect pool" what you're really after is looking at a teams future potential. There's no perfect way to do it, but putting it in a way that team A has better "prospects" vs team B because team A's 8th overall pick is still in the CHL while team B's 7th overall is a regular on the pro roster and no longer considered a prospect is kind of meaningless.

ELC is a good cut off because they're being paid at a set 'prospect' rate, and once a player hits their second contract they're much more closer to being paid their actual value. That's kind of a significant distinction between 21 year old Connor McDavid getting paid $925K vs 22 year old McDavid getting paid $12.5M.

 

[604]

Every year people talk about how great our drafts are and how great our prospect pool is.

The reality is that generally it's just us overeating our prospects.

 

[Kryten]

Every year people talk about how great our drafts are and how great our prospect pool is.

The reality is that generally it's just us overeating our prospects.

Virtanen did some overeating once he became our prospect

 

[gianni]

We currently have:

• Juolevi LHS signed $894,166 3 yr ELC (20 yrs old) contract not burned and yet to be activated - drafted 1st rd 5th overall in 2016 draft
• Guillaume Brisebois LHS signed & burned 1st of 3 yrs ELC $697,500 ELC - drafted 3rd rd 66th overall in 2015 draft (the pick acquired for Eddie Lack) (20 yrs old)
• Jalen Chatfield - overage FA signing last summer after he played his year w/ Windsor - RHS signed & burned 1st of 3 yrs ELC $765,000 (21 yrs old)

If Juolevi can overtake Edler at some point in the next 2 to 6 years, that's a win right there imo and that's the beauty of the pick for long term picture and in terms of 'safety'.


I kind of want to see Pouliot and Stecher on our power play in the future... and hopefully of course not take too many bad defensive plays as well ..

Juolevi - ???
Edler / Pouliot - Gudbranson / Stecher
Pouliot - Stecher / Gudbranson

Perfectly content with adding any of either Bouchard or Dobson... or even Boqvist in this year's draft @ 7th overall

Should we consider how Juolevi would pair with the pick we draft? Or should we draft offensive upside in the hopes that it'll pan out and become that all-coveted #1 D....?

From the 2017 draft, we still have the rights to:
Jack Rathbone LHS (4th round 95th pick in 2017)
According to, https://thehockeywriters.com/jack-rathbone-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/
NHL Potential
NHL insiders project Rathbone will serve as organizational depth while he develops muscle mass. His elite footwork will enable Rathbone time to gain strength. With patience, scouts believe Rathbone will ease his way into becoming a top-six defenseman.

Kristoffer Gunnarsson LHS (5th 135th pick in 2017) - 21 years old who plays on the fringe for Frolunda in SHL

Matthew Brassard RHS (7th 188th pick in 2017) - 20 yrs old who had a pretty great season 51 pts in 67 games.

I would add Ashton Sautner, Evan McEneny, and possibly Nikita Tryamkin to the d-man prospects list. Still missing that blue chip right side dman prospect, although Tryamkin has an unknown ceiling, but the #7 pick in this year's draft will hopefully be that guy.

 

[VanJack]

Every year people talk about how great our drafts are and how great our prospect pool is.

The reality is that generally it's just us overeating our prospects.

"Over-rating our prospects"?......Well Pettersson broke Forserg's teenage scoring records, and won the regular season scoring title and set a new mark for playoff scoring in the SHL; Dahlen was voted the top player in the Allvesnskan with close to ppg; Gaudette won the NCAA scoring title and the Hobey Baker as the best player in college hockey; Demko was a beast in the AHL and DiPietro voted the top goalie in the OHL. Lind scores 95 points in the WHL, despite missing close to 30 games; and Palmu voted 'rookie of the year' in the Finnish Pro League.

Elsewhere, Gadjovich and Juolevi made their world junior hockey championship rosters; Brassard had a breakthrough year in the OHL and Jasek surprised everone in his seven game stint with the Comets and earned an ELC.

Obviously nobody knows how these players will transition to the NHL, but how can you possible be guilty 'over-rating' them at this point?

 

[Hansen]

It hasnt really been “quietly” because we've been the worst team in the league over the past 3 seasons. Amassing a decent prospect pool should follow along with that.

This has been an excellent year for a lot of our prospects in their respective leagues, which is great, but we’ve whiffed on some crucial picks, like with Virtanen and Juolevi

 

[MS]

"Over-rating our prospects"?......Well Pettersson broke Forserg's teenage scoring records, and won the regular season scoring title and set a new mark for playoff scoring in the SHL; Dahlen was voted the top player in the Allvesnskan with close to ppg; Gaudette won the NCAA scoring title and the Hobey Baker as the best player in college hockey; Demko was a beast in the AHL and DiPietro voted the top goalie in the OHL. Lind scores 95 points in the WHL, despite missing close to 30 games; and Palmu voted 'rookie of the year' in the Finnish Pro League.

Elsewhere, Gadjovich and Juolevi made their world junior hockey championship rosters; Brassard had a breakthrough year in the OHL and Jasek surprised everone in his seven game stint with the Comets and earned an ELC.

Obviously nobody knows how these players will transition to the NHL, but how can you possible be guilty 'over-rating' them at this point?

By not understanding that most of these guys will bust or disappoint.

 

[CanaFan]

By not understanding that most of these guys will bust or disappoint.

Yep. Pettersson and Dahlen are pretty special but bothering to list “accolades” like making the WJC or playing 7 games in the AHL shows a lack of understanding or perspective in prospect success rates.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

By not understanding that most of these guys will bust or disappoint.

Pssssssshhh. You're just a blind Benning hater for not thinking this is the first prospect pool in history that won't undergo attrition.

 

[Melvin]

Yep. Pettersson and Dahlen are pretty special but bothering to list “accolades” like making the WJC or playing 7 games in the AHL shows a lack of understanding or perspective in prospect success rates.

For example:

33	Kole Lind	RW	WHL	58	95
34	Nicolas Hague	D	OHL	67	78
35	Isaac Ratcliffe	LW	OHL	67	68
36	Jesper Boqvist	C	SHL	23	13
37	Marcus Davidsson	C	SHL	39	21
38	Gustav Lindstrom	D	Allsvenskan	39	14
39	Jason Robertson	RW	OHL	68	87
40	Aleksi Heponiemi	C	WHL	57	118
41	Jaret Anderson-Dolan	C	WHL	70	91
42	Eetu Luostarinen	C	Liiga	55	20

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

All of these guys are great prospects and we could have drafted any one of them and been happy today. We drafted Lind so we overrate Lind. Reality is, probably at best one or two of these players will be a good NHL player and who knows which.

People just get tunnel-vision on the prospects we have and don't look around the league and at history. This sort of context-less way of hyping up our guys can be frustrating to read at times.

Pettersson is truly extraordinary but virtually every team has a player similar to Lind or whoever.

 

[MS]

For example:

33	Kole Lind	RW	WHL	58	95
34	Nicolas Hague	D	OHL	67	78
35	Isaac Ratcliffe	LW	OHL	67	68
36	Jesper Boqvist	C	SHL	23	13
37	Marcus Davidsson	C	SHL	39	21
38	Gustav Lindstrom	D	Allsvenskan	39	14
39	Jason Robertson	RW	OHL	68	87
40	Aleksi Heponiemi	C	WHL	57	118
41	Jaret Anderson-Dolan	C	WHL	70	91
42	Eetu Luostarinen	C	Liiga	55	20

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

All of these guys are great prospects and we could have drafted any one of them and been happy today. We drafted Lind so we overrate Lind. Reality is, probably at best one or two of these players will be a good NHL player and who knows which.

People just get tunnel-vision on the prospects we have and don't look around the league and at history. This sort of context-less way of hyping up our guys can be frustrating to read at times.

Pettersson is truly extraordinary but virtually every team has a player similar to Lind or whoever.

Exactly this.

Pettersson is terrific. The rest? Everyone has guys like them.

And every team's fanbase thinks their guys like this are amazing. Calgary fans are super excited about Adam Fox/Dillon Dube/D'Artagnon Joly/Matt Phillips who none of our fans have ever heard of. But they're just as good as Dahlen/Lind/Gadjovich/Palmu/Dipietro or whoever.

 

[VancouverJagger]

I think the assessment with Pettersson makes us 5-7ish. Without probably somewhere around the middle of the pack.

We need to ace this draft again at which point if we do I could see us moving into the top 3 or so..........assuming we ace this draft (I have high hopes for this)........

 

[lawrence]

absolutely insane how we are able to build up our prospects pool to probably a top 3 prospects pool in the league, while pulling this off during the new draft era.

Nothing more I can really ask for, very pleased. Everyone hits and misses, add to the fact, that we are not even counting Virtanen who was a 6th pick and Juolevi is a write off already.

following this team closely since 2000, this is the deepest pool I have seen since the summer of 2000 when we had Allen Sedins, Druken, Vydarney.

The fact that even Leafs fans are praising our pool tells a lot.

 

[I in the Eye]

absolutely insane how we are able to build up our prospects pool to probably a top 3 prospects pool in the league, while pulling this off during the new draft era.

Nothing more I can really ask for, very pleased. Everyone hits and misses, add to the fact, that we are not even counting Virtanen who was a 6th pick and Juolevi is a write off already.

following this team closely since 2000, this is the deepest pool I have seen since the summer of 2000 when we had Allen Sedins, Druken, Vydarney.

The fact that even Leafs fans are praising our pool tells a lot.

Even more impressive is how they built up this prospect pool while challenging for the playoffs. I remember an early interview where Bob McKenzie asked if it is possible to "rebuild on the fly" , and the answer was "yes". That the Canucks have been able to assemble this prospect pool while being playoff competitive is truly mind blowing. I hope the naysayers are enjoying their crow.

Can't wait until the draft... and then unrestricted free agency. Bam. Bam. Another blue chip... another veteran contending piece. The hard work is paying off.

 

[petrishriekandgo]

Every year people talk about how great our drafts are and how great our prospect pool is.

The reality is that generally it's just us overeating our prospects.

Possibly but hard to argue with this (reposting from the Prospects thread):

----------

Canucks picks accomplishments for 2017/2018 (from drafts 2015 -> 2017):
(All I can say is thank goodness for the trade for Dahlen or our 2016 draft is looking atrocious... maybe atrocious regardless)

(updates in red)

2015 DRAFT

Rd #	Pick #	Player	Nat	Pos	AWARDS
1	23	Brock Boeser	United States	RW	Rookie of the Month in NHL, Nov, Dec 2017 Voted to All-Star Game Accuracy Shooting Champ at All-Star Game All-Star Game MVP Nominated for NHL Rookie of the Year
3	66	Guillaume Brisebois	Canada	D
4	114	Dmitri Zhukenov	Russia	C	KHL Rookie of the Week (Sep. 11) His Aunt really likes him
5	144	Carl Neill	Canada	D	CIS (OUA East) All-rookie Team CIS (OUA East) First all-star team CIS All-Rookie team
5	149	Adam Gaudette	United States	C	Hockey East Player of the Year Hockey East Scoring Champion Hockey East First All-Start Team ACHA East First-Team All-American Hobey Baker Award Winner
6	174	Lukas Jasek	Czech Republic	RW
7	210	Tate Olson	Canada	D

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2016 DRAFT

Rd #	Pick #	Player	Nat	Pos	AWARDS
1	5	Olli Juolevi	Finland	D
3	64	William Lockwood	United States	RW
5	140	Cole Candella	Canada	D
6	154	Jakob Stukel	Canada	LW
7	184	Rodrigo Abols	Latvia	C
7	194	Brett McKenzie	Canada	C/LW

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Rd#2 42 Jonathan Dahlen

Sweden LW

Allsvenskan Forward of the Year

Allsvenskan Most Valuable Player

Allsvenskan to SHL Promotion (Timrå)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2017 DRAFT

Rd #	Pick #	Player	Nat	Pos	AWARDS
1	5	Elias Pettersson	Sweden	C	SHL Best Plus/Minus (+27) SHL Champion SHL Forward of the Year SHL Most Goals by Junior (24) SHL Most Points (56) SHL Most Points by Junior (56) SHL Most Valuable Player SHL Playoffs MVP (Stefan Liv Memorial Trophy) SHL Rookie of the Year [TBODY] [/TBODY] Named to Team Sweden WC team Swedish Ice Hockey Federation - 'Forward of the Year'
2	33	Kole Lind	Canada	RW	WHL (West) Second All-Star Team
2	55	Jonah Gadjovich	Canada	LW
3	64	Michael DiPietro	Canada	G	CHL Memorial Cup All-Star Team CHL Memorial Cup Champion CHL Memorial Cup Most Outstanding Goaltender OHL Most Shutouts (6) OHL Third All-Star Team [TBODY] [/TBODY] Named to Team Canada WC team OHL Goaltender of the Year
4	95	Jack Rathbone	United States	D
5	135	Kristoffer Gunnarsson	Sweden	D
6	181	Petrus Palmu	Finland	LW/RW	SM-liiga Most Goals by Rookie (17) SM-liiga Most Points by Rookie (36) [TBODY] [/TBODY] Liiga Rookie of the Year
7	188	Matthew Brassard	Canada	D

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Melvin]

Possibly but hard to argue with this (reposting from the Prospects thread):

----------

Cool, now do all the other teams.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Our defensive crop is one of the worst, which is probably keeping us from at least being top 5.

Though, we do have arguably one of the best prospect in hockey in Pettersson and a top 5 goaltending prospect in Demko.

It's amazing how we have some pretty quality prospects despite not accumulating much draft picks. As of right now our 1st round selections have been 50/50, but our drafting from 2nd round to 7th has been pretty solid.

Our 7th overall pick, coupled with hopefully more draft picks, and solid drafting from 2-7, and I don't see a reason why we don't have the best prospect pool in the league.