Has the Red Wings struggle changed your opinion of Yzerman as a GM?

[FriendlyGhost92]

Clean financials?

Copp @ 5.6 x 4
Compher @ 5.1 x 5
Fabbri @ 4 x 2
Chiarot @ 4.75 x 3
Holl @ 3.4 x 3

That's a lot of cash and term for guys that are not moving the needle. I didn't touch DeBrincat because I still believe in him, but lots of risk there, too. Larkin @ 8.7 is ok.

I am once again learning how 3 and 4 years deals for under $5M are "Lots of cash and term".

 

[WarriorofTime]

Imagine rebuilding for seven years to have a first line of Lucas Raymond - Dylan Larkin - Alex DeBrincat without a clear visible path for a better one

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Obviously lottery luck has played a role and you can't blame a GM for that. But many other acquisitions have been head scratchers, and what's dumb is the Wings fan insistence on some genius "Yzerplan" that amounted to tanking and hoping for top picks. Sure that was pretty much his only option but the dude isn't exactly playing a different game than the rest of the league.

Not sure you quite understand what happened in Detroit.

Ken Holland left the team with a shit roster. If Yzerman wanted to "Tank" he would've traded Larkin/Mantha/Bertuzzi for futures right out of the gate, like Chicago did over the last season.

Our roster was literally so shitty that we had no choice but to be the worst team in the league.

Imagine rebuilding for seven years to have a first line of Lucas Raymond - Dylan Larkin - Alex DeBrincat without a clear visible path for a better one

Sorry bro, we can't all cover up a sexual assault for a decade and then when we get caught, purge the team of anybody involved and be gifted a generational player for it.

 

[schuelma24]

I thought he was a great GM when he was in Tampa but his time in Detroit has been very meh. Apparently his strategy is to just keep signing mid players like Chiarot, Compher, Copp every year.

I'm going to take this comment seriously and go into it in more depth. Even with those signings, the Wings have loads of cap space. So let's stipulate that these signings have absolutely zero impact on the current roster construction.

As I see it, there are 2 options right now while the Wings prospects get ready. One, do what he's doing, which is sign some older, proven players to at least make the team competitive while the young guys develop. Try to develop a bit of winning culture, etc. The downside is you're not getting a top pick.

The other option I assume you would argue for, is to attempt to completely tank and try to win the lottery and get that franchise center that team lacks.

Ok - certainly that's a strategy.... and yet, all we hear is how the rebuild is taking too long, etc., and also btw the Wings have had exactly zero lottery luck so far.

I've seen a lot of complaints about the "strategy," with no actual constructive things he should be doing differently at this stage.

 

[Peat]

My opinion has changed a little, but not much. Him being on a hot streak at Tampa didn't mean he'd always be on a hot streak. His work at Detroit has been trying to build on a swamp, and he didn't even get any lottery picks.

The timing of his early picks' success has left him with a choice. Build a semi-competent roster around them to help them improve, or continue being crap to get high picks at the risk of tanking their development. He picked the former, and I don't see a huge problem with that.

Right now my one point of criticism is he doesn't seem to be getting anywhere in terms of targeting gamebreaking talent. But that's because he's picking very sturdy talent like Edvinsson and Danielsson. And I think if you look at the teams winning the cup, there's a path for teams like that to win.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

thrilled to death with being run over for 4 years and coming out of it with Danielson, Edvinsson, Raymond and Kasparand some depth high ceiling picks that every org has?

While the teams around you are hitting on picks like Sanderson, Mintyukov, Mercer, Jarvis, etc.

Dunking on a team for coming up with a probable top pairing D, top line winger, and two centers with strong Top 6 upside from an average pick of 7th OA is certainly a bold move...

 

[Debrincat93]

The amount of horrible decisions made by Holland and Wright set us back tremendously. I dont think that is reiterated enough to people and fanbases outside the wings.

Any Red Wing fan that says that holland and co did an OK job are outright horrible at talent assessment.

Do i think Yzerman has done a great job? no. But he's been good. We also had zero luck with the lotto. that doesnt help in a rebuild. But, again, you need to hit on draft picks.. 2y from now, we will know better.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Sorry bro, we can't all cover up a sexual assault for a decade and then when we get caught, purge the team of anybody involved and be gifted a generational player for it.

No amount of trivializing sexual assault will change the fact that the Red Wings path to being a Stanley Cup contender looks bleak as hell

 

[Byron Bitz]

It’s looking like a failed rebuild in Detroit. Wel see what happens this season maybe that changes if young talent like Edvinsson and Kaspar really take off but I think we are probably a few years away from a new GM coming in and rebuilding the rebuild like we just saw in Buffalo.

 

[Oddbob]

His drafting has been bad? His literal first pick as Wings GM was taking Seider, who is one of the best young defenders in the game. Then some other potential gems as well, in Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper and Danielson. Also, he has either dropped or stayed even as GM in draft positioning, something the so called better rebuilding teams all didn't have as much bad luck in.

No amount of trivializing sexual assault will change the fact that the Red Wings path to being a Stanley Cup contender looks bleak as hell

Yeah, I mean it is pathetic Yzerman didn't even draft Bedard who fell into his lap!

 

[RedHawkDown]

No amount of trivializing sexual assault will change the fact that the Red Wings path to being a Stanley Cup contender looks bleak as hell

It looks better than Chicago's, that's for sure. Outside of Bedard there is nobody in the pipeline and Korchinski looked terrible in the memorial cup.

It’s looking like a failed rebuild in Detroit. Wel see what happens this season maybe that changes if young talent like Edvinsson and Kaspar really take off but I think we are probably a few years away from a new GM coming in and rebuilding the rebuild like we just saw in Buffalo.

I'd bet anything this won't be the case. It seems like people really have no clue whatsoever what they're talking about.

 

[Voight]

I respect what he did in Tampa but they only got over the hump after he resigned and let JBB takeover.

Did AL Murray come with him to DET? IIRC he was/is Tampas head scout and is a big part of why they hit on so many picks.

It looks better than Chicago's, that's for sure. Outside of Bedard there is nobody in the pipeline and Korchinski just had a trash year in juniors.


I'd bet anything this won't be the case. It seems like people really have no clue whatsoever what they're talking about.

73 points & CHL 3rd AST is a trash year????

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I thought he was a great GM when he was in Tampa but his time in Detroit has been very meh. Apparently his strategy is to just keep signing mid players like Chiarot, Compher, Copp every year.

Pretty sure the strategy is to build through the draft like he's been saying for the last four years.

Super weird that every mid player he signs expires right around the time one of his kids will be off their ELC. Would be much better off chasing a couple big name UFAs for max term deals that'll be financial boat anchors when the kids need to be paid.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I respect what he did in Tampa but they only got over the hump after he resigned and let JBB takeover.

Did AL Murray come with him to DET? IIRC he was/is Tampas head scout and is a big part of why they hit on so many picks.



73 points & CHL 3rd AST is a trash year????

Edited my post to reflect what i meant, which is more that he had a real bad memorial cup when actually playing against good teams.

Meanwhile, Kasper, drafted 1 pick later by Yzerman, had a fantastic year in a men's league and would have torn up juniors. He'll split time between the AHL and NHL this year while Korchinski tries to not shit the bed again in the WHL.

 

[WarriorofTime]

It looks better than Chicago's, that's for sure.

lol, I wouldn't trade Bedard for every single Red Wings draft pick from 2018-2013.

 

[Pavels Dog]

thrilled to death with being run over for 4 years and coming out of it with Danielson, Edvinsson, Raymond and Kasparand some depth high ceiling picks that every org has?

While the teams around you are hitting on picks like Sanderson, Mintyukov, Mercer, Jarvis, etc.

You have to be trolling..

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

No amount of trivializing sexual assault will change the fact that the Red Wings path to being a Stanley Cup contender looks bleak as hell

And Chicago is one more Top 5 player away from having as much playoff success as the Oilers.

 

[RedHawkDown]

lol, I wouldn't trade Bedard for every single Red Wings draft pick from 2018-2013.

Neither would I. Generational talents falling into your lap are great, but it takes a lot more than that to build a cup winner, as we see in Edmonton. So far, the Hawks have nothing promising whatsoever apart from Bedard and maybe Reichel.

 

[norrisnick]

You have to be trolling..

Yeah, I thought they were posting those draft snapshots to be informative. I didn't realize it was an attempt to dunk on the Wings' picks. f***ing weird, man.

 

[izlez]

Imagine rebuilding for seven years to have a first line of Lucas Raymond - Dylan Larkin - Alex DeBrincat without a clear visible path for a better one

"Waiting for our draft picks to no longer be children" sure is a rocky winding path.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yeah, I thought they were posting those draft snapshots to be informative. I didn't realize it was an attempt to dunk on the Wings' picks. f***ing weird, man.

Man, just imagine where the team would be at right now with Seth Jarvis instead of Raymond. Completely different outlook!

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Predictably uninformed takes.

His draft picks have generally been fantastic, the team has taken a step forward each year, and he's made fantastic trades over and over. I'm not sure how he possibly could have done any better.


Can you tell me a team that has made significantly bigger strides in the same period without a top 3 draft pick?

It matters that Detroit has never had a lottery pick, while all of NJ, Ottawa, Anaheim, etc have had multiple.

Wings fans keep harping about their "bad lottery luck". Maybe you wouldn't have bad lottery luck is Yzerman would actually go all in and stop signing the Comphers and Perrons of the world.

I looked at the worst point% in the league in the last 4 years.

Of the bottom 16, Detroit only has 1 season there. NJ has 2. Arizona has 2. Montreal has 2. Anaheim has 2. Chicago has 2. They all sold off big time and bottomed over multiple years.

The 1 year where Detroit got boned in the draft lottery was the Laf year lol, and they still picked Raymond over Sanderson, Quinn, Lundell, Jarvis, etc.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

lol, I wouldn't trade Bedard for every single Red Wings draft pick from 2018-2013.

Agreed. Detroit's drafting was pretty shitty during Holland's last five years.

 

[wintersej]

4 years is basically nothing unless you're winning draft lotteries. Threads like this show nothing except peoples inability to distinguish luck from skill.

By Yzerman's fifth year in Tampa they had made the Finals. He inherited Stamkos and Hedman, which is obviously very different than what he inherited in Detroit, but Vasi, Kucherov, Palat, Grourde, Johnson and Point were already draft picks contributing. I think it's fair to say the Yzerman is probably still a good GM AND that he got lucky on some of those picks.

 

[RedHawkDown]

thrilled to death with being run over for 4 years and coming out of it with Danielson, Edvinsson, Raymond and Kasparand some depth high ceiling picks that every org has?

While the teams around you are hitting on picks like Sanderson, Mintyukov, Mercer, Jarvis, etc.

Now this is just unhinged. I'd take every single one of our picks over the 4 you mentioned. With Edvinsson vs. Mintukov, Mercer, Jarvis in particular, it's not even close.