Has the Red Wings struggle changed your opinion of Yzerman as a GM?

[Tufted Titmouse]

We're thrilled to f***ing death with 2019, 2020, and 2021's and encouraged by 2022's and intrigued by 2023's. And we've landed some real promising guys in the 2nd and later too.

thrilled to death with being run over for 4 years and coming out of it with Danielson, Edvinsson, Raymond and Kasparand some depth high ceiling picks that every org has?

While the teams around you are hitting on picks like Sanderson, Mintyukov, Mercer, Jarvis, etc.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Maybe if you're a Lightning fan who only thinks about the Callahan contract.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

This thread will be cringe within two seasons... maybe even by the end of this season.

I mean if you aren't good after 6+ years of being bad, you are entering pre-McDavid Oilers territory. Even a bad GM can turn a team around with that much draft capital.

 

[LemonSauceD]

They lack a true elite level talent up front. They have a solid group of future defense though with Seider, Edvinsson, Wallinder, and ASP. The thing is up front, they have who? Raymond is a good start but he’s not a franchise level player. Danielson is a massive wild card (IMO should have gone with Benson). He’s got 2C potential similar to a Bo Horvat type, but he’s not a franchise level player. They have Soderblom, Mazur, and Kasper but yet again they aren’t franchise level guys, but a solid base of players to build around.

Right now as it stands:

Soderblom-Larkin-Raymond
Mazur-Danielson-Kasper

Edvinsson-Seider
Wallinder-ASP
Wallman-Buium

Cossa

I understand they’ve had bad lottery luck, but that’s a whole lot of what ifs for a team that’s missed the playoffs 8 straight. Very mediocre up front.

 

[dirtydanglez]

no. he always got the credit that should have went to brisebois

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

They lack a true elite level talent up front. They have a solid group of future defense though with Seider, Edvinsson, Wallinder, and ASP. The thing is up front, they have who? Raymond is a good start but he’s not a franchise level player. Danielson is a massive wild card (IMO should have gone with Benson). He’s got 2C potential similar to a Bo Horvat type, but he’s not a franchise level player. They have Soderblom, Mazur, and Kasper but yet again they aren’t franchise level guys, but a solid base of players to build around.

Right now as it stands:

Soderblom-Larkin-Raymond
Mazur-Danielson-Kasper

Edvinsson-Seider
Wallinder-ASP
Wallman-Buium

Cossa

I understand they’ve had bad lottery luck, but that’s a whole lot of what ifs for a team that’s missed the playoffs 8 straight. Very mediocre up front.

A lot of what ifs on D, too, but I think Wallman is the real deal and will definitely be playing top 4 minutes for a long time.

 

[Pavels Dog]

They lack a true elite level talent up front. They have a solid group of future defense though with Seider, Edvinsson, Wallinder, and ASP. The thing is up front, they have who? Raymond is a good start but he’s not a franchise level player. Danielson is a massive wild card (IMO should have gone with Benson). He’s got 2C potential similar to a Bo Horvat type, but he’s not a franchise level player. They have Soderblom, Mazur, and Kasper but yet again they aren’t franchise level guys, but a solid base of players to build around.

Right now as it stands:

Soderblom-Larkin-Raymond
Mazur-Danielson-Kasper

Edvinsson-Seider
Wallinder-ASP
Wallman-Buium

Cossa

I understand they’ve had bad lottery luck, but that’s a whole lot of what ifs for a team that’s missed the playoffs 8 straight. Very mediocre up front.

Even if they had drafted the 'popular' picks (Benson, Savoie, Eklund) I'm not sure the lineup feels any less what iffy.
That's just how it goes. They need some guys to exceed expectations, and maybe another Debrincat-type trade or two if it doesn't happen from within.

 

[sufferer]

I never thought he was the genius many made him out to be.

 

[Stive Morgan]

He's always been a bit overrated imo.

However, I think he's done the right things so far and Detroit's just been unlucky. I could see them being a real threat in 2-4 year, especially if they add a great/elite forward.

 

[norrisnick]

The thing that sticks with me is none of the peanut gallery can point to legitimate moves that would have been better. They tried being bad for 3 years. They got what they got. Then Steve made the conscious decision to improve so as not to crush the development of the kids they do have. Incremental improvement from the bottom out phase. If you don't get lucky it is a slow process for non-lottery won talent to integrate and make a sizeable difference.

It's easy to point and say LOL Copp, Compher, Chiarot but they are quite literally market price middle of the lineup vets to take some heat off the kids as they get added to the lineup. They are not and there is no expectation for them to be in key roles during the Wings target window. They are place holders.

Without winning the lottery a time or two you can't just skip the mediocre phase of a rebuild. I believe the Wings have the record for the collective most draft positions moved back. Possibly tied with CBJ.

 

[RedWingzz]

Today I learned that 3 x $3.4M is a "Big contract".

Also would love to hear about how "sus" Detroit's drafting has been.

People are clueless lol. Most people follow their own team, and that's it. I wouldn't even bother getting into it with someone who calls our drafting "sus".

We have the first rounders, who are all projecting well, but this guy probably has no idea who guys like Wallinder, Buchelnikov, Soderblom, Lombardi and Mazur are.

 

[um]

no. he always got the credit that should have went to brisebois

They both got the credit of the Scouts who nailed their late draft picks.

 

[Seanaconda]

Yzerman was widely considered one of the top GMs in hockey when he eventually stepped down in Tampa and moved to Detroit,

After a few years of rebuilding, it feels like that org is not where we thought it would be today.

Has this changed your opinion of Yzerman (as a GM)?

Nah he hasn't really had draft luck with the lotto and we won't know if the bones are good enough till he decides it's time to push.

Like Sakic was the gm of that complete garbage Avs team 4, 5 years ago ? The one that was going for the least amount of points in a season record or whatever lol

 

[RedWingzz]

From a Sens fans perspective, the Detroit Red Wings just have a completely uninspiring roster. Late last season when both the Sens & the Wings were still in the hunt for the playoffs, the two teams played a back to back where Detroit just genuinely looked awful in all aspects.

Obviously a 2 game sample size isn't enough to judge a team, but as a human I'm guilty of remembering things that happened recently and that has certainly stuck with me.

Beyond that, the Free Agency acquisitions and some of the trades that have been made has built a roster that is full of the most boring and uneventful players in the league. Just an uninspiring team all around.

Cool, want to hear my perspective of the Sens as a Wings fan?

 

[Seanaconda]

Cool, want to hear my perspective of the Sens as a Wings fan?

Glass houses and all that

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Ask me again in another 5 years.

 

[saska sault]

Nope. Prospect pool is strong, probably top 5 range. We could potentially if guys pan out, have one of the best back ends in all of hockey. Financial freedom in the future including 30 plus million next year. Depth has improved all around the organization, look at our roster 2 or 3 years ago. Some may not like the players or think they are boring, that's fine. Copp, Compher, Petry, Ghost are all another level above the guys who were in those spots last year. Added some grit in Kostin and Fischer which was missing. The kids are starting to slowly push for spots in the line up rather then being rewarded the by default.. can see how an non fan doesn't seem impressed but people who actually follow the team are happy with the direction. We still have a ton of assets to move if are big piece becomes available also, while Steve didn't force himself into overpaying for guys who may not want to be here.. the Michigan guys are slowly wanting to return and thats in his favor going forward also. If we improve another 6 to 10 points, that's another step, think the year after this is when the pressure starts for management. The Wings were a wasteland of talent and assets when Steve took over, and he has been married to Hollands financial mistakes also.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

shouldn't we at least let the season play out?

 

[schuelma24]

I'm not going to get into debating every single talking point because other Wings fans have already done that, but I would say this: I suspect the biggest reason for the disconnect between Wings fans and everyone else is that people who do not follow the team closely just look at the likely opening day lineup and see (mostly) mediocre veterans and do not realize that there are a number of good prospects that are close to making the lineup and that likely in 2 years or so, the lineup is going to be unrecognizable. The veterans signed the last year or so are pretty clearly stopgap measures. I suspect if those veterans hadn't been signed, and 4-5 rookies were part of the opening day roster this year (even if they weren't ready) the general hockey world would think the team is on the upswing because of the youth in the lineup.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I'm not going to get into debating every single talking point because other Wings fans have already done that, but I would say this: I suspect the biggest reason for the disconnect between Wings fans and everyone else is that people who do not follow the team closely just look at the likely opening day lineup and see (mostly) mediocre veterans and do not realize that there are a number of good prospects that are close to making the lineup and that likely in 2 years or so, the lineup is going to be unrecognizable. The veterans signed the last year or so are pretty clearly stopgap measures. I suspect if those veterans hadn't been signed, and 4-5 rookies were part of the opening day roster this year (even if they weren't ready) the general hockey world would think the team is on the upswing because of the youth in the lineup.

I think it's mainly people comparing them to similar teams that seem to have been able to make huge strides in the same time period. Seems like Detroit has the pieces to be good but need a few home runs to get on par with other rebuilding orgs.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Predictably uninformed takes.

His draft picks have generally been fantastic, the team has taken a step forward each year, and he's made fantastic trades over and over. I'm not sure how he possibly could have done any better.

I think it's mainly people comparing them to similar teams that seem to have been able to make huge strides in the same time period. Seems like Detroit has the pieces to be good but need a few home runs to get on par with other rebuilding orgs.

Can you tell me a team that has made significantly bigger strides in the same period without a top 3 draft pick?

It matters that Detroit has never had a lottery pick, while all of NJ, Ottawa, Anaheim, etc have had multiple.

 

[izlez]

I mean if you aren't good after 6+ years of being bad, you are entering pre-McDavid Oilers territory. Even a bad GM can turn a team around with that much draft capital.

Pick any team's drafting from 2019 forward and show me a playoff roster.

You are severely overestimating how quickly draft picks come along

 

[Toby91ca]

It would obviously depend on what you thought of him coming in. I agree he was highly thought of and coming back to Detroit he was like the Golden Boy....I didn't get to into that hype though, so I take a reasonable approach here and suggest he came into a tough job, he's not a master at this, so growing pains to be expected.

 

[norrisnick]

I think it's mainly people comparing them to similar teams that seem to have been able to make huge strides in the same time period. Seems like Detroit has the pieces to be good but need a few home runs to get on par with other rebuilding orgs.

What teams are similar to what the Wings had signed and in the pipeline in 2019? And what teams were as bad as the Wings were and peaked at drafting 4th overall? Wings had the worst record of the cap era in '19-'20 and were rewarded with the 4th overall pick. I love Raymond, but if the Wings had gotten Stutzle who was at the top of their board these threads look mighty different right now. Jersey got two lotto wins, Buffalo 2 lotto wins, Ottawa got gifted #3 from an unprotected 1st being traded etc.... None of the Wings' "peers" have had to deal with what the Wings have had to deal with.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I thought he was a great GM when he was in Tampa but his time in Detroit has been very meh. Apparently his strategy is to just keep signing mid players like Chiarot, Compher, Copp every year.