Hall of Fame players in the current NHL

[TheDevilMadeMe]

also true of neely. i think he only had 2g in his 8 games in the finals.

for some reason, it is rarely used against neely, but is used against others (such as lindros and heatley).

Well, Lindros was absolutely terrible in the finals that one year, rather than just a little bad.

As for Neely, I guess he and Bourque get excused for going against the dynasty Oilers. But you're right, that's a good reason to lose, but not really a good reason not to score.

 

[Goalie Guru*]

He's the Phil Housley on that list.

Great pick!

He was a great defenseman. Smart, calm, controlled.

You are a genius jkrx.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Great pick!

He was a great defenseman. Smart, calm, controlled.

You are a genius jkrx.

So is Mike Green I guess then

 

[reckoning]

Kaberle missed 25 games in the 08-09 season. How did this affect Toronto's record?

With Kaberle: 22-26-9 (.465)
Without Kaberle: 12-9-4 (.560)

Does this mean Kaberle is overrated? Imagine if a starting goalie and his backup posted those same records.

Back on topic, the 2000s have not been a stellar era for elite defencemen; and as good as Rafalski, Kaberle and others have been, I can't see them even getting considered. For active D-Men based on what they've done so far it's Lidstrom, Pronger and maybe Chara. That's it.

 

[Ziostilon]

How low the bar has become if Modano and Recchi are considered locks.

how is Modano not a lock

hes the highest leading American scorer

 

[Epsilon]

how is Modano not a lock

hes the highest leading American scorer

There have been plenty of good arguments made for Modano in the thread specifically dealing with that topic, where his numbers and contributions speak for themselves. This is not one of them: Modano should not make the Hall of Fame simply because he's not Canadian.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Kovalchuk - Not even close yet. Been a no show in the playoffs. Has been part of one single postseason win - just one game! Bad reputation as a selfish player, too one dimensional and that contract that he is currently being criminally overpaid for will not help him. Good regular seasons, but I've never liked him personally and is not a guy I'd want anywhere near my team

A popular sentiment, and one that makes no sense to me. The one time Atlanta made the playoffs he was pretty much the only guy who showed up with any intensity as they were swept. Last year he wasn't great by any means, but he still led the Devils in playoff scoring and was in on six of their nine goals. I don't really see how this translates to being a no-show.

People just love to hate this guy for some reason (not picking out you specifically Phil, just in general). Maybe it's the "heartless Russian" stereotype in effect, but Kovalchuk isn't a Kovalev or a Yashin. Far from it, but that's the way he gets treated by much of the hockey world.

TDMM pointed out that every single player with seven top 10's in goals is in the HOF. I'm not advocating him for the HOF at this point, but Kovalchuk has seven, and he's only 27 years old. And it's not just tail-end 9th and 10ths. Outside of his injury-shortened rookie season, he's never been worse than 8th in goals in any season. If his current struggles prove to be an anomoly and he gets back to scoring like he did in Atlanta, it's might be tough to keep him out when it's all said and done.

 

[Intact]

A popular sentiment, and one that makes no sense to me. The one time Atlanta made the playoffs he was pretty much the only guy who showed up with any intensity as they were swept. Last year he wasn't great by any means, but he still led the Devils in playoff scoring and was in on six of their nine goals. I don't really see how this translates to being a no-show.

People just love to hate this guy for some reason (not picking out you specifically Phil, just in general). Maybe it's the "heartless Russian" stereotype in effect, but Kovalchuk isn't a Kovalev or a Yashin. Far from it, but that's the way he gets treated by much of the hockey world.

TDMM pointed out that every single player with seven top 10's in goals is in the HOF. I'm not advocating him for the HOF at this point, but Kovalchuk has seven, and he's only 27 years old. And it's not just tail-end 9th and 10ths. Outside of his injury-shortened rookie season, he's never been worse than 8th in goals in any season. If his current struggles prove to be an anomoly and he gets back to scoring like he did in Atlanta, it's might be tough to keep him out when it's all said and done.

Thank you, the underrating of Kovalchuk has gotten ridiculous since the start of the season. FACT: At the beginning of the season Kovalchuk is 14th on the list of active goal leaders, at 27 years old. Kovalchuk is a lock for 600 goals and maybe more. I would be saying "what the hell happened", if Kovalchuk does not make the Hall of Fame.

 

[Ogopogo*]

how is Modano not a lock

hes the highest leading American scorer

If that is all you need to be a lock for the HOF, the criteria is pretty weak.

Modano was a good player for a long time piling up career numbers. He was never one of the league's top 3 or 5 players, he didn't dominate, he was never seriously considered for a Hart Trophy. The guy was just good and played a long time.

Being great and dominating your era is what the HOF should be about. But, with the weak criteria the HOF voters look at, don't worry, Modano will get in.

 

[jkrx]

If that is all you need to be a lock for the HOF, the criteria is pretty weak.

Modano was a good player for a long time piling up career numbers. He was never one of the league's top 3 or 5 players, he didn't dominate, he was never seriously considered for a Hart Trophy. The guy was just good and played a long time.

Being great and dominating your era is what the HOF should be about. But, with the weak criteria the HOF voters look at, don't worry, Modano will get in.

He was on a 2nd all-star team so he was considered one of the top players in the league. So you don't think that Syl Apps should be in the Hall, neither should Delvecchio, Keon, Barber etc.

 

[Derick*]

Kaberle missed 25 games in the 08-09 season. How did this affect Toronto's record?

With Kaberle: 22-26-9 (.465)
Without Kaberle: 12-9-4 (.560)

Does this mean Kaberle is overrated? Imagine if a starting goalie and his backup posted those same records.

Back on topic, the 2000s have not been a stellar era for elite defencemen; and as good as Rafalski, Kaberle and others have been, I can't see them even getting considered. For active D-Men based on what they've done so far it's Lidstrom, Pronger and maybe Chara. That's it.

Did you look at the opposition those games? That's kind of important. People throw that same stat out about Ovechkin's ten games last season... and conveniently ignore that four of those games were against Florida.

 

[Goalie Guru*]

So is Mike Green I guess then

Then...what? A grammar error perhaps?

 

[Goalie Guru*]

Kaberle missed 25 games in the 08-09 season. How did this affect Toronto's record?

With Kaberle: 22-26-9 (.465)
Without Kaberle: 12-9-4 (.560)

Does this mean Kaberle is overrated? Imagine if a starting goalie and his backup posted those same records.

Back on topic, the 2000s have not been a stellar era for elite defencemen; and as good as Rafalski, Kaberle and others have been, I can't see them even getting considered. For active D-Men based on what they've done so far it's Lidstrom, Pronger and maybe Chara. That's it.

It's a great point about Kaberle! It proves that he doesn't win games on his own.

If a starting goalie and the backup have the same records then obviously the starter is amazing.

What has Chara accomplished to deserve the Hall of Fame?

 

[Hardyvan123]

It's a great point about Kaberle! It proves that he doesn't win games on his own.

If a starting goalie and the backup have the same records then obviously the starter is amazing.

What has Chara accomplished to deserve the Hall of Fame?

A Norris, 2 1st and 2nd all-star selections by age of 33 and on track for another this year maybe as well and for several more.

 

[Goalie Guru*]

A Norris, 2 1st and 2nd all-star selections by age of 33 and on track for another this year maybe as well and for several more.

The year Chara won the Norris another defenceman on his team had the same amount of points and a better plus minus by 9.

I'm not convinced he is a HOFer.

 

[Epsilon]

The year Chara won the Norris another defenceman on his team had the same amount of points and a better plus minus by 9.

I'm not convinced he is a HOFer.

This isn't even a good argument by main board standards...

 

[jepjepjoo]

This isn't even a good argument by main board standards...

Got to love the elitism

 

[Hardyvan123]

The year Chara won the Norris another defenceman on his team had the same amount of points and a better plus minus by 9.

I'm not convinced he is a HOFer.

Yes that's true but no one is mistaking Wideman for Chara any time soon.

Look I'm not sure if Chara gets in the Hall of not but given his track record so far and his level of play and a natural aging process he is going to be under consideration IMO.

 

[MXD]

It took a nanosecond to think of Chris Pronger and Nicklas Lidstrom.

Everyone else took a moment longer to reflect.

Even Martin Brodeur?

I know he's retired, but I'd like to see what kind of support Rob Blake will have. He wouldn't be in MY Hall, and I'd certainly have Howe, Tremblay and Brewer ahead of him. Still, amongst the available players that aren't locks, Blake is probably just behind Brewer.

He'll be up against some good players, and that might keep him out for a while. As long as he doesn't make it ahead of Howe and Tremblay, it would be fine with me.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Even Martin Brodeur?

I know he's retired, but I'd like to see what kind of support Rob Blake will have. He wouldn't be in MY Hall, and I'd certainly have Howe, Tremblay and Brewer ahead of him. Still, amongst the available players that aren't locks, Blake is probably just behind Brewer.

He'll be up against some good players, and that might keep him out for a while. As long as he doesn't make it ahead of Howe and Tremblay, it would be fine with me.

I think Blake will be in and I think he'll make it ahead of Howe and Tremblay. Blake doesn't have the "played in the WHA" black mark against him, afterall.

 

[Big Phil]

Heatley best years were on the Pizza Line. And on that line he was not the best player, Alfredsson was. And Alfredsson is a likely HHOFer but not definate. Spezza was Heatley's equal and certainly no less of a player than Heatley was and he is not making the HHOF unless he starts stringing together 5 100 point seasons. Now he is not the best player on his line again. And probably the 4th best player on his team after Marleau and Boyle and obviously Thornton. Boyle and Marleau have no shot at the HHOF.

Hold off on Boyle. He has a lot of hockey left in him I believe. Granted he has his work cut out for him, but he already has a Cup, two 2nd team all-stars, a Gold Medal and does not look to be slowing down significantly either. Still among the best defensemen in the game. Marleau needs a miracle in his 30s to convince me.

Even Martin Brodeur?

I know he's retired, but I'd like to see what kind of support Rob Blake will have. He wouldn't be in MY Hall, and I'd certainly have Howe, Tremblay and Brewer ahead of him. Still, amongst the available players that aren't locks, Blake is probably just behind Brewer.

He'll be up against some good players, and that might keep him out for a while. As long as he doesn't make it ahead of Howe and Tremblay, it would be fine with me.

Blake should be inducted. Only Lidstrom, Pronger and Niedermayer were better than him from his generation of d-men. And we have seen an all too familiar argument that Blake was better than Niedermayer even if I disagree with it.

A popular sentiment, and one that makes no sense to me. The one time Atlanta made the playoffs he was pretty much the only guy who showed up with any intensity as they were swept. Last year he wasn't great by any means, but he still led the Devils in playoff scoring and was in on six of their nine goals. I don't really see how this translates to being a no-show.

People just love to hate this guy for some reason (not picking out you specifically Phil, just in general). Maybe it's the "heartless Russian" stereotype in effect, but Kovalchuk isn't a Kovalev or a Yashin. Far from it, but that's the way he gets treated by much of the hockey world.

TDMM pointed out that every single player with seven top 10's in goals is in the HOF. I'm not advocating him for the HOF at this point, but Kovalchuk has seven, and he's only 27 years old. And it's not just tail-end 9th and 10ths. Outside of his injury-shortened rookie season, he's never been worse than 8th in goals in any season. If his current struggles prove to be an anomoly and he gets back to scoring like he did in Atlanta, it's might be tough to keep him out when it's all said and done.

Well, to tell you the truth Kovalchuk plays the way a "Canadian" plays. I wouldn't go as far as calling him heartless because he isn't. But selfish would be a word to describe him. He was pointless (maybe one assist) in the sweep from 2007 against NYR. You're a 50 goal man, you have to score! My problem with him is that he has yet to ever elevate his team to any success. Whether it is getting out of the first round or even flirting with the playoffs.

 

[goooal]

Hold off on Boyle. He has a lot of hockey left in him I believe. Granted he has his work cut out for him, but he already has a Cup, two 2nd team all-stars, a Gold Medal and does not look to be slowing down significantly either. Still among the best defensemen in the game. Marleau needs a miracle in his 30s to convince me.



Blake should be inducted. Only Lidstrom, Pronger and Niedermayer were better than him from his generation of d-men. And we have seen an all too familiar argument that Blake was better than Niedermayer even if I disagree with it.



Well, to tell you the truth Kovalchuk plays the way a "Canadian" plays. I wouldn't go as far as calling him heartless because he isn't. But selfish would be a word to describe him. He was pointless (maybe one assist) in the sweep from 2007 against NYR. You're a 50 goal man, you have to score! My problem with him is that he has yet to ever elevate his team to any success. Whether it is getting out of the first round or even flirting with the playoffs.

Actually Kovalchuk had two points ( 1g 1a) in the four game series and for what its worth his goal tied the game in the third period. With the small sample size im not willing to crucify kovalchuk over his point production in that series. What seems to really make him look bad though is the 19 pims he racked upover those four games. Five of those minutes were from a fighting major but I don't think I count that as a positive thing considering it was avery he fought (seemingly) out of frustration.

 

[Big Phil]

Actually Kovalchuk had two points ( 1g 1a) in the four game series and for what its worth his goal tied the game in the third period. With the small sample size im not willing to crucify kovalchuk over his point production in that series. What seems to really make him look bad though is the 19 pims he racked upover those four games. Five of those minutes were from a fighting major but I don't think I count that as a positive thing considering it was avery he fought (seemingly) out of frustration.

But that's the thing. He's barely made the playoffs. A decade into your NHL career you should have played in more than 9 playoff games. He doesn't elevate his team to an particular height

 

[seventieslord]

As a fellow Leaf fan I can say with confidence that Kaberle will never be a HHOFer. First of all for the first 10 years of his career he had a "no shoot" clause in his contract. I'd swear he did at least. Plus he doesn't have any year end all-star selections. Bryan McCabe was a 2nd team all-star in 2004 if you can believe it and I always thought that when the two were together that McCabe was the better d-man. It sounds ridiculous to induct McCabe right? Sure does, but worse to choose Kaberle.

Plus the poor defense doesn't help either.

Never say Never. The guy's just 32; what if he gets traded to a contender at the deadline, gets locked up for 6 years and makes a Gonchar-like contribution to two cups and another finals appearance, or something like that? I agree it's unlikely but there's no doubt playing the best years of his life on a terribly mismanaged Toronto team has hurt him.

He's got a terrible Norris voting record right now (13th, 11th) but honestly he deserved more votes the last 10 years than Gonchar got from 1995-2004. To say that McCabe was the better D-man while they were both in Toronto sounds a bit revisionist to me and a bit Don Cherry-ish, taking the tougher, Canadian player over the clearly more skilled and smarter European. No doubt he is soft in his end, but Kaberle was the one who did the intelligent work, lugging the puck out of the zone and running the PP, feeding McCabe's bomb of a point shot. Now McCabe was not bad in any area of the game (his defensive gaffes are overblown for sure) but compared to Kaberle he was very much a specialist of a player. he had a big bomb of a shot, could hit and fight occasionally, and had a real knack for taking minor penalties and then looking like everyone else in the world was responsible for it besides him.

As for entire careers, I think they are fairly close to even at this point, but Kaberle should have a good edge when all is said and done. The reason I say they are more even is McCabe does have a few years on him, and has been captain of two franchises.

I have been critical of Leaf Lander for continuing to take Kaberle in the all-time drafts and even made him promise he would let him fall this time, to see where someone other than LL would select him. He broke his promise and just couldn't help making him a #7 on his squad (pick 715). Kaberle would have likely fallen to the MLD and been selected based on merit and not homerism, as LL doesn't do the MLDs. I looked forward to this. McCabe was selected by me, 151 picks after Kaberle and comparing his career to the others in the MLD tells me McCabe would be a solid MLD #1. Kaberle probably would, too. Both should get taken around 750th by now, IMO.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

But that's the thing. He's barely made the playoffs. A decade into your NHL career you should have played in more than 9 playoff games. He doesn't elevate his team to an particular height

So basically it's Kovalchuk's fault that Don Waddell is an idiot and surrounded him with trash for all but one or two years in Atlanta?

As was pointed out already, he was not pointless in the sweep to the Rangers. And it might have helped had he not had to step up and fight Sean Avery himself, as none of his gutless teammates were up to the task, apparently. Stats aside, my memory of that series was Kovalchuk looking like he wanted to win, and the other 19 stiffs on his team looking like they'd been drunk for a week.