Habs Off-season discussion Part 4 (Your ****** proposals still go here)

[Le Barron de HF]

I'd rather develop the kids than sign Penner or Setoguchi.

 

[teh doors]

If Bourque plays RW that gives the team nice balanced depth of size and skill on both wings. When you look at the roster the coaching staff really has a lot of great forward options this year

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Parenteau
Galchenyuk - Eller - Gallagher
Prust, Sekac - Plekanec - Bourque
Moen, Bournival - Malhotra - Weise

Two scoring lines.

Then Prust-Plekanec-Bourque and Moen-Malhotra-Weise.

Two character veteran lines.

Mix in some games for Sekac at LW/RW w/ Plekanec and Bournival LW/RW learning from defensive forwards like Malhotra and Moen but can play anywhere in the lineup.

 

[Sterling Archer]

From a cap space POV, Penner at 1-1.5M is only 75-575K more than Sekac. I could see Penner signing for the same amount as Stempniak, 900K, which would actually be 25K savings over Sekac.

But we already have Sekac under contract so your point is moot.

Obviously Sekac was a hot commodity in the NHL before he was signed for good reason. Teams were falling over themselves trying to sign him and we won out.

Like I said, IF we didn't sign Sekac, THEN Penner could have worked. But he did so it doesn't.

 

[Roulin]

But we already have Sekac under contract so your point is moot.

Obviously Sekac was a hot commodity in the NHL before he was signed for good reason. Teams were falling over themselves trying to sign him and we won out.

Like I said, IF we didn't sign Sekac, THEN Penner could have worked. But he did so it doesn't.

Sekac's is a two way contract, there's no cap hit if he's in the AHL. Even if he was on a one way, the penalty would only be 25K.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Sekac's is a two way contract, there's no cap hit if he's in the AHL. Even if he was on a one way, the penalty would only be 25K.

Which is why I said I'd wait until camp before even entertaining the idea of signing Penner...

This is a lot easier when you read the WHOLE post and not cherry pick the parts you want to argue.

 

[Roulin]

Which is why I said I'd wait until camp before even entertaining the idea of signing Penner...

This is a lot easier when you read the WHOLE post and not cherry pick the parts you want to argue.

All my replies to have been to show that there is no downside cap-wise to signing Penner. I'm sure it is a lot easier when I'm not picking on that... but that was the part of your argument that was blatantly wrong.

 

[Sterling Archer]

All my replies to have been to show that there is no downside cap-wise to signing Penner. I'm sure it is a lot easier when I'm not picking on that... but that was the part of your argument that was blatantly wrong.

There are obvious downsides to signing Penner. I highlighted some of them in my post so I don't see how I'm blatanly wrong...

Penner at $1-1.5M isn't a bad deal for a team that needs depth on the 3rd lin and maybe 2nd in a pinch. My point was that we're not that team as we already have good depth as is and haven't even factored in rookies who might crack the line up.

In a cap world, having $2.5M in the kitty is a huge advantage to have. You can use it to "help" another team get under the cap in a trade to take on more salary and get a bona fida top line winger we actually need. We can hold on to it in case of injury or to pull another Vanek type deal at the end of the season to help put us over the hump in the PO's.

Signing anyone of the UFA's still available doesn't help us in any meaningful way that the other options of having the cap space can help. In this situation, I think we're better off holding off. I will say that if we didn't get Sekac this off season, I'd agree with signing Penner as well. Until we have a better idea at camp, I think it's best to wait.

So there are some reasons that show how signing Penner has some downsides (I named a few, there are more) so I don't know how you can be so matter of fact about a hypothetical situation?

 

[vokiel]

All my replies to have been to show that there is no downside cap-wise to signing Penner. I'm sure it is a lot easier when I'm not picking on that... but that was the part of your argument that was blatantly wrong.

What?!?

There are only downsides to signing him. Cap space wasted, contract spot wasted, roster spot potentially wasted, mothers crying... If the guy is paid 1$, it's 1$ too much. You don't sign guys like that just for kicks. The NHL is not an underground gambling den.

Might as well sign Gomez & Campoli while you're at it.

 

[Dominator13]

Man I would love Jordan Nolan on this team, he's as high tempo as Tootoo was when he joined the NHL but he has the size to back it up. Trade Bourque and Moen, put Prust on the 3rd line and have a 4th line of Nolan-Malhotra-Weise.

 

[Ezpz]

Prust was horrible on the fourth line this year so your plan is to reward him with more icetime?

 

[Dominator13]

Prust was horrible on the fourth line this year so your plan is to reward him with more icetime?

Huh? What the heck are you talking about? He was fighting injuries all year.

 

[Mr. Hab]

I don't see a problem without the Penner.

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gallagher
Pacioretty-DD-PA Parenteau
Bourque-Eller-Sekac
Prust-Malhotra-Weise
Bournival, Moen

The Penner could be good/very cheap insurance...no?
(no better time than now to get him...a la cheap...look what other teams gave up...not reason to get him but good chance for us to get him a la very cheap...improves our top 9 or even top 12...no? yes?!).

Could be a great playoffs' line:
Bourque-Eller-Penner

(Bourque is an amazing playoffs warrior/star...bash him all you want but gotta love love love him in playoffs!!).

 

[S Bah]

If Bourque plays RW that gives the team nice balanced depth of size and skill on both wings. When you look at the roster the coaching staff really has a lot of great forward options this year

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Parenteau
Galchenyuk - Eller - Gallagher
Prust, Sekac - Plekanec - Bourque
Moen, Bournival - Malhotra - Weise

Two scoring lines.

Then Prust-Plekanec-Bourque and Moen-Malhotra-Weise.

Two character veteran lines.

Mix in some games for Sekac at LW/RW w/ Plekanec and Bournival LW/RW learning from defensive forwards like Malhotra and Moen but can play anywhere in the lineup.

When you add on all the defence prospects the Habs already have more than a full lineup of quality NHL players. Given that all four; Beaulieu, Nygren Pateryn and Tinordi will be competing for two positions, it will be a tall order to unseat a veteran for a full time role this year unlike the past two decades.

 

[WeThreeKings]

A one year contract to Penner literally can not hurt and it allows us flexibility in the line-up if Chucky moves to center.

 

[pine*]

A one year contract to Penner literally can not hurt and it allows us flexibility in the line-up if Chucky moves to center.

agreed.

sign penner
move desharnais
move chucky to c

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Bourque
Galchenyuk - Eller - Parenteau
Sekac/Bournival - Plekanec - Gallagher
Prust - Malholtra - Weise
Moen

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Gilbert
Beaulieu or Tinordi - Weaver
Nygren

Price
Tokarski

Still think we're fine right now with what we have at the moment as I think guys like Galchenyuk and Eller will break out offensively. If our offence is struggling then we should look at moving some of our defensive prospects for a forward as the season goes on, or give guys like Andrighetto and DLR a chance.

- Let Bourque try and get confidence early on, he looked good the couple of games with Desharnais last year and Desharnais has looked better with two bigger wingers with him. Always found he has looked better on the right side as well.
- Chucky and Larry have nice chemistry together, add in an offensive playmaker like PAP and that line could put up a ton of points for us
- I hate seeing Gallagher doing all the dirty work on the Desharnais line and he played well with Plekanec, that line can play the tough match-ups and will also chip in with some offence
- I can see Moen/Prust/Manny/Weise rotating in and out with injuries on the fourth line, against physical teams like Boston we can put Prust at centre and have the fourth line of Moen - Prust - Weise. Originally I wanted Moen gone, but with how often Prust gets hurt and Malholtra getting up there in age I still think he'll get into a lot of games even if he's our 13th forward right now.

 

[vokiel]

Bourque with Desharnais is a song that played already many times and sounded horrid.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

agreed.

sign penner
move desharnais
move chucky to c

None of which will happen. Thank god.

 

[Roulin]

Bourque with Desharnais is a song that played already many times and sounded horrid.

This. As much as three balanced lines would make things easier for Therrien, Bourque can't handle that role.

Corsi % with/without Bourque 2012-2014
Desharnais: 48.6/53.9
Pacioretty: 49.2/55.1

 

[Analyzer*]

Man I would love Jordan Nolan on this team, he's as high tempo as Tootoo was when he joined the NHL but he has the size to back it up. Trade Bourque and Moen, put Prust on the 3rd line and have a 4th line of Nolan-Malhotra-Weise.

So, you want us to downgrade in offense and get a guy who brings energy, but he's not that good of a fighter

 

[overlords]

None of which will happen. Thank god.

We probably come out ahead in that exchange, depending on how you project Galchenyuk, I guess.

 

[WeThreeKings]

We probably come out ahead in that exchange, depending on how you project Galchenyuk, I guess.

A fair bit ahead.

Everyone talks about developing youth.. but if the youth is good enough to play, we can make concessions. I'd rather a young player force their way into the line-up then say to Sekac and Andrighetto, "sink or swim".

 

[overlords]

A fair bit ahead.

Everyone talks about developing youth.. but if the youth is good enough to play, we can make concessions. I'd rather a young player force their way into the line-up then say to Sekac and Andrighetto, "sink or swim".

I would say that it would largely depend on the return for DD. I also think most people aren't as high on penner as me, which is understandable to an extent. The guy generally looks like a lazy mother****er. But on the third line? He'd look good with Eller.

 

[Big Lurk]

agreed.

sign penner
move desharnais
move chucky to c

But Penner is not that good though. And we're not in a rush, as we have prospects that may be ready (Sekac, Andrighetto, De la Rose, Reway). The return we'd get for Desharnais would almost certainly be inferior to his value. We still dont fully know what we have in Desharnais, because he was never tested defensively. Same for Galchenyuk, and same for Eller, offensively. Experiments are going to be made, but I doubt Penner is the solution for the Habs.

Its that time we give the younger players more duties. Why would we get rid of declining vets to get another one?

 

[Big Lurk]

But I guess that after training camp we'll have a better idea.