Gymnastics

[PanthersPens62]

I need time to process all of this because it came out of nowhere. I need to hear a little more from Simone. I understand why people feel the way The Burdened does and yet I still feel for Simone because she does not have a history of diva-like behavior. Maybe its her marketing team/agents etc. Not excusing it, mind you, but trying to understand how/why 5 years of preparation went down the drain like this. I saw it coming a mile away with Naomi Osaka......this one I never saw coming.

 

[John Price]

 

[theimmortal1]

Kerri Strug hurt ankle? sticks the landing and wills a gold medal for her team like a legend.
Simone Biles hurt ego? quits on her team

if Simone actually competes in AA + Events after abandoning her team.... wew. she could win 5 individual golds, but it won't matter. Quitters cannot be GOATS. Imagine Jordan quitting on the Bulls in Game 7 of the Finals.
I'll regain some respect for her and be more sympathetic if she pulls out of the remainder cause at least it's consistent.

nothing really much more to say, but once again, big props to Suni Lee and Jordan Chiles today. They were only supposed to do 2/4 events and they came in at the last minute and fought like hell when the team needed them most. Team captain and team leader quit on them, and they fought until the end. Suni Lee has a really f***ed up ankle but she went all out for her team.
A lot of courage and heart displayed by them. The real queens but they won't get the proper acknowledgment.

I hope she can read the room.

I agree with you totally. Her reputation will be hurt more if she went out and competed in individual, even if she won 5 individual golds.

At her stage it is all about legacy. She is already known as the most skilled of all time. Will 5 more golds cement that? IMO it already is. But what can destroy her legacy is being known as a quitter. If she competes in individual at a high level, then she will be known as a quitter. So if I'm her I don't compete in individual, even if I feel fine. Take some time off or just retire. At least that preserves your status and you can legitimately say you had a health issue for the team event.

 

[theimmortal1]

Wetzel is an idiot. We would murder a hockey player if he quit in the 1st period because he got dominated on a few shifts. Especially if it is a star player.

If she had a severe mental episode then she didn't voluntarily back out. Her body (brain) made that choice for her. So we can't frame that as heroic.

 

[Incubajerks]

Wetzel is an idiot. We would murder a hockey player if he quit in the 1st period because he got dominated on a few shifts. Especially if it is a star player.

If she had a severe mental episode then she didn't voluntarily back out. Her body (brain) made that choice for her. So we can't frame that as heroic.

It seems to me just a bad figure, especially if he will compete in the single.

 

[Jim]

Wetzel is an idiot. We would murder a hockey player if he quit in the 1st period because he got dominated on a few shifts. Especially if it is a star player.

If she had a severe mental episode then she didn't voluntarily back out. Her body (brain) made that choice for her. So we can't frame that as heroic.

It is amazing how I get a warning and 5 points for making the same argument on the Bruins board as I read on here. A broad got pissed there because apparently reality was too much for her and it became about men vs. women….not sure.

I agree 100% with your comments. If your #1 goalie decided the final round of the Stanley Cup Playoffs was too stressful, people would flip out. The same applies here. This wasn’t a small tourney….it was the Olympics. Perform.

 

[Fighter]

Biles GOAT status is cancelled if it turns out she didn't suffer a real injury

Overraction much?
As I wrote previously if anybody here followed her for quite awhile would know that while her skills and class are untouched and her body is holding up fairly well, but her mental health hasn't been in the best shape... now it shows that it's actually in shambles. Too much shit has unfolded in the US gymnastic org and also her icon grew more and more despite her no longer be motivated I guess.
It's quite a parallel with Naomi Osaka, I'd say, even though the latter is much more of an introvert compared to Simone.
I don't write off her completely from these Olympics because she is in a class on her own, but nevermind that I just wish her all the best and to think to her mental health first before anything else.

As for Italy, that was heartbreaking. China failing badly won't happen often and it seemed like Japan was the only country to fear at the end... only to be upset by the GBR team who went berserk with their scores in the UBs... The f***...

 

[theimmortal1]

Overraction much?
As I wrote previously if anybody here followed her for quite awhile would know that while her skills and class are untouched and her body is holding up fairly well, but her mental health hasn't been in the best shape... now it shows that it's actually in shambles. Too much shit has unfolded in the US gymnastic org and also her icon grew more and more despite her no longer be motivated I guess.
It's quite a parallel with Naomi Osaka, I'd say, even though the latter is much more of an introvert compared to Simone.
I don't write off her completely from these Olympics because she is in a class on her own, but nevermind that I just wish her all the best and to think to her mental health first before anything else.

As for Italy, that was heartbreaking. China failing badly won't happen often and it seemed like Japan was the only country to fear at the end... only to be upset by the GBR team who went berserk with their scores in the UBs... The f***...

IMO the key is if she performs in individual. If she does her reputation is toast.

Of course she will be considered the most skilled gymnast of all time. But GOAT would be a stretch if she just ended up performing fine in a couple days.

 

[The Burdened]

It's quite a parallel with Naomi Osaka, I'd say, even though the latter is much more of an introvert compared to Simone.

Best of my knowledge Naomi Osaka never quit on her team in the middle of a competition.
that's my entire issue.

Failure is acceptable and apart of any sport. Quitting on your team mid competition is unforgivable.
GOATs don't quit on their team midway thru the competition. Svetlana Khorkina or Aliya Mustafina would have died on the podium going 0/4 before they quit their team mid competition.

let's say order of events were reversed and say Biles did the team but withdrew from AA & Events. There is no problem with that. You do you cause in that instance the only person Simone is accountable for is Simone.

Quitting on her team mid competition? She let down Suni Lee, Grace McCallum and Jordan Chiles today.
Suni Lee, who is actually battling a real injury and not a bruised ego, was not even supposed to do floor due to the ankle being in bad shape, had to fill in Simone. Suni put her health on the line for her teammates. Absolute champion.
Jordan Chiles, who had the worst day of her year at qualifers, put that behind her and was thrust into 2 extra events. Although she fell on the floor, she went out and performed with courage and should be proud. She could've been too shook and not even gone out on that floor. She could've cowered away from the moment and run away like Biles, but she didn't.

I wouldn't even be that disappointed in her if say she withdrew before the day even started. She had a bad vault and quit. She faced adversity and she quit.
Straight from her mouth:
“After the performance I did, I just didn’t want to go on” - Simone Biles

 

[BMOK33]

Best of my knowledge Naomi Osaka never quit on her team in the middle of a competition.
that's my entire issue.

Failure is acceptable and apart of any sport. Quitting on your team mid competition is unforgivable.
GOATs don't quit on their team midway thru the competition. Svetlana Khorkina or Aliya Mustafina would have died on the podium before they quit. their team mid competition.

let's say order of events were reversed and say Biles did the team but withdrew from AA & Events. There is no problem with that. You do you cause in that instance the only person Simone is accountable for is Simone.

Quitting on her team mid competition? She let down Suni Lee, Grace McCallum and Jordan Chiles today.
Suni Lee, who is actually battling a real injury and not a bruised ego, was not even supposed to do floor due to the ankle being in bad shape, had to fill in Simone. Suni put her health on the line for her teammates. Absolute champion.
Jordan Chiles, who had the worst day of her year at qualifers, put that behind her and was thrust into 2 extra events. Although she fell on the floor, she went out and performed with courage and should be proud. She could've been too shook and not even gone out on that floor, but she did.

I wouldn't even be that disappointed in her if say she withdrew before the day even started. She had a bad vault and quit. She faced adversity and she quit.
Straight from her mouth:
“After the performance I did, I just didn’t want to go on” - Simone Biles

If Biles felt the team had a better shot at winning without her, and this team is good enough most days to do exactly that I don't have any issue with her doing what she did if she knew there was no chance she could perform to the level she needed

 

[PanthersPens62]

I'm willing to wager that her 3 teammates are much less angry about what happened today then a lot of other people seem to be.

 

[The Burdened]

If Biles felt the team had a better shot at winning without her, and this team is good enough most days to do exactly that I don't have any issue with her doing what she did if she knew there was no chance she could perform to the level she needed

This would be fine logic if Simone Biles quit her team because she super legit tanked her vault and she knew she would be a detriment to the rest of the team.

However, consider she a very good vault score. What a luxury.
She abandoned her team because she put up the highest score among her teammates.
She would've put up the highest floor score for her team today too even if she stepped out of bounds 4 times. The end result might have been the same with Russia winning, but we will never know because she bailed.

Biles is so good that at her worst she is still one of the best gymnasts. Biles at 50% is better than no Biles at all.

I'm willing to wager that her 3 teammates are much less angry about what happened today then a lot of other people seem to be.

In their heart of hearts, I'm sure it's mixed tbh. We will never know because they will never let their true feelings known.
Have to imagine their families are likely disappointed. Sacrifice a lifetime to get the Olympics and your teammate abandons your team mid meet.

 

[BMOK33]

This would be fine logic if Simone Biles quit her team because she super legit tanked her vault and she knew she would be a detriment to the rest of the team.

However, consider she had the highest vault score for USA today. What a luxury.
She abandoned her team because she put up the highest score among her teammates.
She would've put up the highest floor score for her team today too even if she stepped out of bounds 4 times. The end result might have been the same with Russia winning, but we will never know because she bailed.

Biles is so good that at her worst she is still one of the best gymnasts. Biles at 50% is better than no Biles at all.

It was still bad by her standards. Her usual vault scores are mid to high 15s. Also she was very generously scored on it. I saw more than a few former gymnasts saying she got 0.3-0.4 higher than she should have

 

[The Burdened]

It was still bad by her standards. Her usual vault scores are mid to high 15s. Also she was very generously scored on it. I saw more than a few former gymnasts saying she got 0.3-0.4 higher than she should have

Oh for sure.
but THAT's how good she is.

She had the worst vault since she fell on her butt at Worlds in 2018, and she still put up the biggest score for the team.
Just wonder if it could've been different if there was a leader on the floor to help hone her in and get her to chill. Someone like Raisman or Sacramone. Maybe her old coach idk. Oh well.

I guess the old saying about how everybody has a plan until they get hit in the mouth once again reigns true

she could learn something from the Russian girls who bombed the beam, but were undeterred and went right back out and stayed strong on floor. they faced tremendous pressure and still rose the occasion.

maybe i'm being too harsh. it's okay that she didn't rise to occasion when facing competitive adversity. some can; some can't. I will still never agree with her quitting on her team mid competition tho.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Like she's going to score lower than 11.7 on the floor?

 

[EpochLink]

What a bad take.

 

[Alicat]

That is the stuff of legends, though.

No that was straight up abuse. Bela didn't have a clue how to add because they did not need Strug's vault to win gold. They already had it. Bela made Strug go because he's utter trash.

You can't compare the situations.

People forget that Simone is still dealing with the fallout from being sexually abused by Nassar and USAG has done everything to discredit her yet she still went out and dominated.

She is amazing and props to her for scratching before she severely hurt herself

 

[Alicat]

She did not quit on her team. She was way off on her touch warm up on vault and then lost her air awareness when it was her turn to go.

She could have been seriously injured and I'd rather her scratch then end up on a stretcher

 

[PanthersPens62]

A Simone Biles injury revealed in 'Simone vs. Herself' could explain sudden exit from Olympics team finals (msn.com)

So, while she was indeed in a not so good place mentally, a physical problem may still have been a part of why she was having her issues.

 

[Eisen]

No that was straight up abuse. Bela didn't have a clue how to add because they did not need Strug's vault to win gold. They already had it. Bela made Strug go because he's utter trash.

You can't compare the situations.

People forget that Simone is still dealing with the fallout from being sexually abused by Nassar and USAG has done everything to discredit her yet she still went out and dominated.

She is amazing and props to her for scratching before she severely hurt herself

In every replay of 96 you see Strug. That is a story people will never forget. Germany had a similar story, albeit not about gold, in Rio, when Andreas Toba still did his pommelhorse routine after ripping his tendons on the floor. No medal chances, but people don't forget that. They call him Hero de Janeiro now.

 

[Daisy Jane]

What was Naomi Osaka's deal (I clearly missed something there).

In regards to this - honestly, if i were USA Gymnastics I'd just pull Biles out from the entire competition. From what I heard (I didn't seee her vault but it seemed like she lost sense of where she was in the air). Her comments after that don't sound so good to me. Like did she have a panic attack? It didn't look like it because she was happily cheering everyone one, and getting mats, and chalk going on like everything was fine. Again if you have the twisties its better safe than sorry because you don't want to hurt yourself, but I just know for me personally, after it was all said and done, I would be in tears like this sucks. as people said - Sveta Khorkina, (basically anyone on that 1996/2000 team) would have rather taken a bullet to the brain than to pull out of a competition like that.

until i see it in person for myself - i can't really comment more than that, but she should have spoken up after warmups (and i heard she practiced it wonky too). I can't speak for her team mates, but quite honestly, I would be quite a tick salty if she pulled out but was oh "I'm fine!" for the All around.

I think it's always gonna be divisive. I've always been of the mindset that even though you're extremely talented - you should let the whole GOAT crap be determined AFTER your career not during it. a ot of people are blaming this on media, and USA gymnastics and allt his pressure on yourself, but she is the one wo stitched a goat on on her leos. She thinks she's all that, and to me at the end of the day she bailed on her team. I don't think she's very GOATy.

 

[Alicat]

In every replay of 96 you see Strug. That is a story people will never forget. Germany had a similar story, albeit not about gold, in Rio, when Andreas Toba still did his pommelhorse routine after ripping his tendons on the floor. No medal chances, but people don't forget that. They call him Hero de Janeiro now.

They only see what was on tv but the actual story behind it isn't so rosy but people chose to ignore it because the USA won gold.

 

[Eisen]

They only see what was on tv but the actual story behind it isn't so rosy but people chose to ignore it because the USA won gold.

It's still a legendary Olympic story. And it's because it's not rosy but about perseverance when the odds are against you. 96 was different, yeah, it was the first gold of the US with the team. That's what people like.

 

[Eisen]

What was Naomi Osaka's deal (I clearly missed something there).

In regards to this - honestly, if i were USA Gymnastics I'd just pull Biles out from the entire competition. From what I heard (I didn't seee her vault but it seemed like she lost sense of where she was in the air). Her comments after that don't sound so good to me. Like did she have a panic attack? It didn't look like it because she was happily cheering everyone one, and getting mats, and chalk going on like everything was fine. Again if you have the twisties its better safe than sorry because you don't want to hurt yourself, but I just know for me personally, after it was all said and done, I would be in tears like this sucks. as people said - Sveta Khorkina, (basically anyone on that 1996/2000 team) would have rather taken a bullet to the brain than to pull out of a competition like that.

until i see it in person for myself - i can't really comment more than that, but she should have spoken up after warmups (and i heard she practiced it wonky too). I can't speak for her team mates, but quite honestly, I would be quite a tick salty if she pulled out but was oh "I'm fine!" for the All around.

I think it's always gonna be divisive. I've always been of the mindset that even though you're extremely talented - you should let the whole GOAT crap be determined AFTER your career not during it. a ot of people are blaming this on media, and USA gymnastics and allt his pressure on yourself, but she is the one wo stitched a goat on on her leos. She thinks she's all that, and to me at the end of the day she bailed on her team. I don't think she's very GOATy.

Her entire performances during these games were wonky. And bail or not, she lacks Olympic medals to be goaty anyway. At this point, to me, she is not (but up there).

 

[Alicat]

It's still a legendary Olympic story. And it's because it's not rosy but about perseverance when the odds are against you. 96 was different, yeah, it was the first gold of the US with the team. That's what people like.

The issue I have is that when the story is told it isn't the full story.

What Kerri did was jaw dropping and awesome at the time and can be celebrated but people need to understand that the USA already had the gold locked up