gretzky article on saturday meeting

[Habitantpeasoup]

http://tsn.ca/news_story.asp?ID=115751&hubName=main

Click to read more...

 

[kremlin]

This makes Saskin look really stupid, given the comment he made earlier. Who do you trust: Gretzky or Saskin.....don't think you need an integrity meter to measure that

 

[Shainsaw]

This ends the debate. Lets see Goodnow call The Great One a liar.

 

[Lil' Jimmy Norton*]

Nice set up by the NHLPA...CLASSLESS!!!!

This is a disgusting backstab by Linden and Damphousse !! They are a complete JOKE !!! This will go down as one of the worst manipulations by the so-called "brotherhood" If i was Gretz I'd hold a PC and clarify this whole sordid mess that went on last Saturday and out the SOB's on the PA who pulled this Horse ****
What will the PA do call him a liar ?? !!! What is going on !!! How do you do this to two guys that are icons ????? DIE NHLPA DIE !! I can't wait to see you go down and go down hard !!

 

[tantalum]

This ends the debate. Lets see Goodnow call The Great One a liar.

Of course he's a lying liar he's ownership.

But now that this has come out in an article written by a hardcore PA guy throughout all of this does the union lose the gains the made at shoring up there union? I would hope so. Perhaps it was simply a huge desparation move on the PA leadership's part...a leadership in danger of losing the confidence of the membership completely. Or was it just gross incompetence?

 

[arnie]

This makes Saskin look really stupid, given the comment he made earlier. Who do you trust: Gretzky or Saskin.....don't think you need an integrity meter to measure that

Huh? What in the world has Gretzky ever done to rate him high on the integrity meter? He's just self serving like all the rest.

 

[bcrt2000]

Huh? What in the world has Gretzky ever done to rate him high on the integrity meter? He's just self serving like all the rest.

taking the hit for pocklington's bad business deals, and then lying in favour of pockington is the only thing you need to mention of Gretzky in terms of being such a class act

 

[pacde]

Huh? What in the world has Gretzky ever done to rate him high on the integrity meter? He's just self serving like all the rest.

Watch what your saying there arnie. Gretzky has been the very image of integrity since he came into the spotlight and he has a long track record of doing the right thing and winning. One of the rare people that has taken the public pressure and provided an provided an image that the kids can look up to - he has been a role model in every way I can think of.

 

[deke72]

Huh? What in the world has Gretzky ever done to rate him high on the integrity meter? He's just self serving like all the rest.

Arnie, this just in... You are a DUMB@ss!

 

[Digger12]

Gretzky and Mario may be many things, but one thing they are NOT is reckless.

Both of them are very careful about what endeavors they involve themselves in, I find it very hard to believe that they'd get personally involved at 12:01 of these negotiations unless they were directly led to believe that a deal was there to be made. By all accounts they were given the ol' bait and switch, and it shouldn't take much to figure out which side had more to gain by a sleazy publicity stunt like this. While it's likely given the NHLPA leadership a *temporary* respite, unfortunately for them it's also likely angered the owners even more and perhaps even galvanized them into even more hardline stances in the future.

The NHLPA could've been France, but it looks like they'd rather be Hiroshima. I hope they're OK with that.

 

[habfan4]

Wow!!! Are there any bridges left for the PA to burn??? Alienating and embarassing moderates like Gretzky and Lemieux just doesn't make any sense. Perhaps as a quid pro quo FU move, the league should announce that Wirtz and Jacobs have now joined it's bargaining team.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

There is hardball . . . and then there is hardball. Why in the world would you basically piss on the two main ambassadors to the game, the only two names that transcend the sport, that people outside of those who follow hockey would know, merely to attempt to galvanize a splintering union. The players should feel pretty dirty by association, and should be embarrassed.

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

Of course he's a lying liar he's ownership.

But now that this has come out in an article written by a hardcore PA guy throughout all of this does the union lose the gains the made at shoring up there union? I would hope so. Perhaps it was simply a huge desparation move on the PA leadership's part...a leadership in danger of losing the confidence of the membership completely. Or was it just gross incompetence?

Gross incompetence.

That term sums up the NHLPA.

They have been grossly incompetent throughout these "negotiations". (I use the term "negotiations" very loosely here.)

 

[Digger12]

Naslund's words are chilling...

''Hopefully we'll stay strong through this ordeal,'' he said. ''We've got no choice anymore. It's gone too far for us to give up.''

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=115725

And he can thank his leadership for giving him that one choice...

 

[chiavsfan]

Yeah well Naslund lost a lot of credibility with his idiotic stance on the Moore/Bertuzzi thing the other day (and you can debate the incident as much as you want) The point is...

Him saying Moore (a 3rd/4th liner) dosen't belong in the league just alienates the lower line players. Kinda of the way this whole lockout has gone for the PA

 

[bling]

I am not real sure what article you people are reading but if it is the one in the link of the thread starter, I see no reason to use that as castigation of the NHLPA.

Gretz, says what we already heard. The NHLPA wanted to first get the other aspects of the NHL offer clarified and negotiated before discussing the cap. That is where everything stalled as it became apparent that the underlying issues were too great to be overcome.

How does that reflect negatively on the P.A.? What would be the point of listening to a cap number that was the basis for an otherwise unworkable deal?

 

[habfan4]

I am not real sure what article you people are reading but if it is the one in the link of the thread starter, I see no reason to use that as castigation of the NHLPA.

Gretz, says what we already heard. The NHLPA wanted to first get the other aspects of the NHL offer clarified and negotiated before discussing the cap. That is where everything stalled as it became apparent that the underlying issues were too great to be overcome.

How does that reflect negatively on the P.A.? What would be the point of listening to a cap number that was the basis for an otherwise unworkable deal?

Why ask Gretzky and Lemieux to show up if the deal was unworkable? Where was the union's counterproposal? Why were arbitration, qualifiers and entry level clauses moved onto the front burner? Why no discussion on the cap number? (the reason that talks broke off to begin with).

I'll sum it up in three words: Public Relations Stunt!!!

 

[chara]

Gretz would never sully his international reputation by fabricating this information.

The NHLPA fumbled the ball and now everyone knows it. They are losing credibilty with each new lie they tell.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I am not real sure what article you people are reading but if it is the one in the link of the thread starter, I see no reason to use that as castigation of the NHLPA.

Gretz, says what we already heard. The NHLPA wanted to first get the other aspects of the NHL offer clarified and negotiated before discussing the cap. That is where everything stalled as it became apparent that the underlying issues were too great to be overcome.

How does that reflect negatively on the P.A.? What would be the point of listening to a cap number that was the basis for an otherwise unworkable deal?

Fram what Bettman, Mario, Gretz have reported, as well as media sources saying their source was all players the NHLPA:

1. Totally fractured wednesday, arranged a meeting implying movement and a proposal coming down from $49.5 Million.

2. Leaked 'deal made' all over the media

3. Showed up with no proposal crushing fans and then lied saying that the NHL arranged the meeting.

4. Suddenly NHLPA not fractured anymore.

5. Mario and Gretzky were obviously used by the NHLPA for the above.

 

[bling]

Why ask Gretzky and Lemieux to show up if the deal was unworkable? Where was the union's counterproposal? Why were arbitration, qualifiers and entry level clauses moved onto the front burner? Why no discussion on the cap number? (the reason that talks broke off to begin with).

I'll sum it up in three words: Public Relations Stunt!!!

The fact that the deal was unworkabel was because the NHL's offer when it was fully disclosed in that meeting was even less of a compromising then the P.A. had been led to believe. All the issues that the Owners had glossed over and refused to define previously were the things the P.A. wanted clarified before talking about a cap number. In that discourse it was discovered the NHL was offering even less than had been understood by the P.A. The cap number was NOT the only reason talks broke off before and every one of you Bettman lovers know it.

The NHL called this meeting so why would the P.A. think they needed to bring an offer? They came to negotiate the NHL's previous offer and make a counterproposal with a lower cap. They never got that far as has been reported numerous times the other issues when clarified by the Owners group proved to be unworkable and halted negotiations before the Union got to the point of making a counteroffer.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The fact that the deal was unworkabel was because the NHL's offer when it was fully disclosed in that meeting was even less of a compromising then the P.A. had been led to believe. All the issues that the Owners had glossed over and refused to define previously were the things the P.A. wanted clarified before talking about a cap number. In that discourse it was discovered the NHL was offering even less than had been understood by the P.A. The cap number was NOT the only reason talks broke off before and every one of you Bettman lovers know it.

The NHL called this meeting so why would the P.A. think they needed to bring an offer? They came to negotiate the NHL's previous offer and make a counterproposal with a lower cap. They never got that far as has been reported numerous times the other issues when clarified by the Owners group proved to be unworkable and halted negotiations before the Union got to the point of making a counteroffer.

Gretzky just said that this was a lie. You believe Goodenow over Gretzky?

p.s., the NHLPA has an army of attorneys who work for them. Either they are lying through their teeth regarding not knowing those details of the owner's $42.5 million proposal or they and their lawyers are even more incompetent than they seem. They had to know, or should have known, those details long before. Yet another lie by the NHLPA. Look to another thread where we discuss their lie about fear of owners 'cooking the books.' Nearly impossible to do. The 'L' in NHLPA must stand for 'Lies' because that is all we get from them.

 

[rwilson99]

The NHL called this meeting so why would the P.A. think they needed to bring an offer? .

What should the NHL expect. After all, the PA made two lousy proposal in the last 6 months of this debacle. Why should they expect a change at this late hour.

 

[Digger12]

I am not real sure what article you people are reading but if it is the one in the link of the thread starter, I see no reason to use that as castigation of the NHLPA.

Gretz, says what we already heard. The NHLPA wanted to first get the other aspects of the NHL offer clarified and negotiated before discussing the cap. That is where everything stalled as it became apparent that the underlying issues were too great to be overcome.

How does that reflect negatively on the P.A.? What would be the point of listening to a cap number that was the basis for an otherwise unworkable deal?

I get what you're saying, but something just doesn't add up.

I find it utterly unfathomable that for the last 5 1/2 months of this incredibly damaging work stoppage, that the 'underlying issues' hadn't been discussed ad nauseum by both sides. Surely these sides must have had some sort of understanding about what type of form things like arbitration, UFA age limits and qualifying offers were going to take?

The central issue throughout this morass started out as cap/no cap...then it evolved to "level of cap" once the union made their crucial mistake of accepting a cap at this late juncture. So here we are, 3 days after the commisioner has officially cancelled the entire season because they could never agree on a cap number, the NHLPA make overtures to have a last gasp meeting, and when they get there all they want to talk about is the 'underlying issues'??

I'm sorry, but to me this thing absolutely reeks of being a publicity stunt. The NHL had no reason to do something like this. The NHLPA? That's another matter.

 

[habfan4]

The fact that the deal was unworkabel was because the NHL's offer when it was fully disclosed in that meeting was even less of a compromising then the P.A. had been led to believe. All the issues that the Owners had glossed over and refused to define previously were the things the P.A. wanted clarified before talking about a cap number. In that discourse it was discovered the NHL was offering even less than had been understood by the P.A. The cap number was NOT the only reason talks broke off before and every one of you Bettman lovers know it.

If you want to swallow any of the NHLPA's red herring excuses about arbitration, qualifiers etc... please do!

The NHL called this meeting so why would the P.A. think they needed to bring an offer? They came to negotiate the NHL's previous offer and make a counterproposal with a lower cap. They never got that far as has been reported numerous times the other issues when clarified by the Owners group proved to be unworkable and halted negotiations before the Union got to the point of making a counteroffer.

"I wasn't there to negotiate, and neither was Mario. That wasn't our role. You have to remember, this wasn't the NHL's meeting. If Gary had wanted to call another meeting, he would have done it Wednesday morning before he announced cancellation of the season." - Wayne Gretzky TSN Link

Seems Gretzky was under the impression that the PA called him and set up the meeting.

 

[bling]

Fram what Bettman, Mario, Gretz have reported, as well as media sources saying their source was all players the NHLPA:

1. Totally fractured wednesday, arranged a meeting implying movement and a proposal coming down from $49.5 Million.

2. Leaked 'deal made' all over the media

3. Showed up with no proposal crushing fans and then lied saying that the NHL arranged the meeting.

4. Suddenly NHLPA not fractured anymore.

5. Mario and Gretzky were obviously used by the NHLPA for the above.

Wrong, the players union when asked to meet with the Owners group on Saturday, suggested that Mario and Wayne be invited to the negotions.

The people leaking the deals may have been players but not the players who were actually involved in the negotiations. However just like nearly everyone on this board who felt the deal was imminent, many players were optomistic because of Bettmans words that a deal "could" get done at $45-$46 million, which they were told the NHLPA was willing to offer. But that was just a tease on Bettmans part and the real basis for his bait and switch tactics that led to the collapse of negotiations.

How were Mario and Gretz used by the P.A.? The P.A. really thought they were being asked to negotiate a workable deal. They asked for Mario and Gretz to be included because as players and owners they had credibility to both camps and not the preconcieved agenda of some of the other Owners who have never played the game. But they never got a chance because the real deal the Owners were offering on Saturdaye was not what the P.A. had been led to believe it would be.