Post-Game Talk: [GM4] Canucks lose to Lightning | 3-4 (Boeser, Myers, & Miller | .500 Hockey Club

[pitseleh]

Was thinking of this yesterday and was going to specifically ask you, is there a way to see a player's zone time? Not starts but the total amount of time they spend in each zone. Ideally 5v5.

Not that I know of. The NHL doesn’t track it as part of their PbP data so you’d need to have someone sit down and watch all the games to record it. I expect some of the private analytics companies do this but I haven’t seen it publicly.

I recall that back in the day Tyler Dellow or Vic Ferrari or someone did some tracking and found that zone time correlated really well to Corsi, so then it fell to the wayside as something of interest

 

[MS]

There are two central problems with the team right now :

1) Loading up a Hughes-Hronek pair means that you have either Myers or Friedman/Juulsen on the ice for 60% of the game at ES.

2) Putting two soft wingers that Tocchet doesn't trust defensively with Pettersson means that he's having to hide his 1C at ES, and it's a bad ineffective mix of players on top of that. Plus Pettersson is hurt, plus Blueger is missed.

We're not maximizing what we have at either C or D which is the spine of the team and when that happens things start to fall apart.

 

[Vector]

Not that I know of. The NHL doesn’t track it as part of their PbP data so you’d need to have someone sit down and watch all the games to record it. I expect some of the private analytics companies do this but I haven’t seen it publicly.

I recall that back in the day Tyler Dellow or Vic Ferrari or someone did some tracking and found that zone time correlated really well to Corsi, so then it fell to the wayside as something of interest

Thanks. I figured this is something a crazy person like Cam Charron would have been tracking. His stuff last season was very interesting and I’d love a forechecking version of puck retrievals.

 

[credulous]

Was thinking of this yesterday and was going to specifically ask you, is there a way to see a player's zone time? Not starts but the total amount of time they spend in each zone. Ideally 5v5.

no. the nhl has zone change data (when the puck moves from one zone to another) which you could use to calculate something close to this but they don't make it available

 

[Diamonddog01]

In case you’re wondering if the eye test lines up with the numbers so far, the Canucks are 30th in score adjusted xGF% at 5v5, largely on the back of being 31st in score adjusted xGA/60.

Small sample means you shouldn’t put much weight on that carrying forward but it’s pretty ugly so far.

Not surprised. Doesn't bode well moving forward unfortunately.

 

[elitepete]

There are two central problems with the team right now :

1) Loading up a Hughes-Hronek pair means that you have either Myers or Friedman/Juulsen on the ice for 60% of the game at ES.

2) Putting two soft wingers that Tocchet doesn't trust defensively with Pettersson means that he's having to hide his 1C at ES, and it's a bad ineffective mix of players on top of that. Plus Pettersson is hurt, plus Blueger is missed.

We're not maximizing what we have at either C or D which is the spine of the team and when that happens things start to fall apart.

It’s so stupid that they’re loading up that pairing simply because they don’t want to play one of Cole or Soucy on the right side. Both of them have done it in the past, but neither have done it while paired with a player like Hughes.

The player personnel on defense is already bad, but this coach is making it worse by not maximizing usefuless. Hughes on 1 pairing and Hronek on the other would mean we have a D out there that can control the ice for 80% of the game at even strength.

Hughes-Cole
Soucy-Hronek
Wolanin/Hirose-Myers

 

[MS]

It’s so stupid that they’re loading up that pairing simply because they don’t want to play one of Cole or Soucy on the right side. Both of them have done it in the past, but neither have done it while paired with a player like Hughes.

The player personnel on defense is already bad, but this coach is making it worse by not maximizing usefuless. Hughes on 1 pairing and Hronek on the other would mean we have a D out there that can control the ice for 80% of the game at even strength.

Hughes-Cole
Soucy-Hronek
Wolanin/Hirose-Myers

Exactly. Been saying this since the first day of training camp. It makes no sense.

Put together two solid pairings and then try to hide Myers-Wolanin or whatever in limited soft minutes.

I mean, they could even stack the pairing and play Soucy-Cole together and that would be better.

 

[God]

Not that I know of. The NHL doesn’t track it as part of their PbP data so you’d need to have someone sit down and watch all the games to record it. I expect some of the private analytics companies do this but I haven’t seen it publicly.

I recall that back in the day Tyler Dellow or Vic Ferrari or someone did some tracking and found that zone time correlated really well to Corsi, so then it fell to the wayside as something of interest

I think it was two seasons in the early 00's where the NHL actually recorded zone time, and that correlated well to Corsi.

 

[VanJack]

What disillusioning so far is that for all the Canucks preaching about tightening it up in front of their own net and making safe zone exits, they're still hanging their goaltenders out to dry.

They've been out-shot by a 2-1 margin in the last three games--and many of those chances are Grade A scoring opportunities. Only the outright brilliance of Demko and DeSmith has kept the scores close.

In fact they look a lot like the team that got Boudreau fired.

 

[F A N]

I thought the other goal he was on for was worse. This one was more unfortunate.

 

[arttk]

I thought the other goal he was on for was worse. This one was more unfortunate.

Myers taking out Petey is like wtf level stupid.

 

[Jyrki]

Myers basically decides a player will be at a spot a few seconds in advance, and if he's not... well, that doesn't stop him from following through anyways.

I'd laugh if this bozo didn't carry 3/4s of Hughes' caphit. I can't believe at this point I'm thinking "at least Eriksson gave us memes and empty netters".

 

[F A N]

Myers taking out Petey is like wtf level stupid.

Can't help the bambi limbs.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Watched the highlights.

Holy shit Myers had a rough game.

@Chairman Maouth Has chosen quite the hill to die on here...

Why didn't you quote this?

This is where I won't defend Myers.

That was similar to and nearly as bad as the giveaway by the Hawks that Burrows scored on in the 2011 playoffs when we eliminated them.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Why didn't you quote this?

Have you changed your mind about Myers hate being 'group think'..?

 

[kanucks25]

PJ is top notch. Drance doesn’t know the sport. Has never played even at a novice or beer league level similar to Shah or Janda.

Drance is an idiot but this notion that you need to have played the game to understand it is complete bogus.

 

[Play]

Drance is an idiot but this notion that you need to have played the game to understand it is complete bogus.

Agreed, people who think that have put no real thought into their belief.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Drance is an idiot but this notion that you need to have played the game to understand it is complete bogus.

Um...it certainly helps you understand it if you actually know what it feels like to retrieve a puck while being chased, or to block a shot, or how to angle a forecheck, or who takes whom on a back check.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Have you changed your mind about Myers hate being 'group think'..?

Not even close.

Not everything Myers does is bad. Not every play he makes is bad. People do not want to believe that.

After the game in Edmonton, myself and others essentially proved that he is heavily criticized for things he did not do and mistakes he did not make. The Groupthink Gang came out to collectively shit on him, and the Groupthink Gang was wrong.

Yes, he certainly has more than his share of f***-ups, but not as many as people here would have us believe.

By the way, the way you tagged me and called me out like you did? A bit of a dick move. I'm wondering if you might be the President of the Groupthink Gang.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Not even close.

Not everything Myers does is bad. Not every play he makes is bad. People do not want to believe that.

edit. This is entirely your invention.

Nobody claimed he scored the goal wrong.

After the game in Edmonton, myself and others essentially proved that he is heavily criticized for things he did not do and mistakes he did not make. The Groupthink Gang came out to collectively shit on him, and the Groupthink Gang was wrong.

Yes, he certainly has more than his share of f***-ups, but not as many as people here would have us believe.

By the way, the way you tagged me and called me out like you did? A bit of a dick move. I'm wondering if you might be the President of the Groupthink Gang.

Okidoki.

I'll be sure to quote you if you ever happen to change your mind on this.

Untill then.

Doot doola doot doo ... doot doo!

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Okidoki.

I'll be sure to quote you if you ever happen to change your mind on this.

Untill then.

Doot doola doot doo ... doot doo!

“proved”

 

[Chairman Maouth]

edit. This is entirely your invention.

Nobody claimed he scored the goal wrong.

Okidoki.

I'll be sure to quote you if you ever happen to change your mind on this.

Untill then.

Doot doola doot doo ... doot doo!

Don't hold your breath because my mind will never change. There is no player in the NHL that f***s up every time he touches the puck, which is how the narrative about Myers flows around here.

I'll be sure to quote you the next time you praise him. Or should I say, the first time you praise him.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Don't hold your breath because my mind will never change. There is no player in the NHL that f***s up every time he touches the puck, which is how the narrative about Myers flows around here.

Nobody is saying he does.

This is your own invention.

I'll be sure to quote you the next time you praise him. Or should I say, the first time you praise him.

I can do it right now.

He is still pretty effective skating the puck out. He is a solid team mate. I have no hate for him like I did with Gudbranson who was actively tossing team mates under the bus in interviews. He has great physical tools too.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Nobody is saying he does.

This is your own invention.

I can do it right now.

He is still pretty effective skating the puck out. He is a solid team mate. I have no hate for him like I did with Gudbranson who was actively tossing team mates under the bus in interviews. He has great physical tools too.

I am proud of you, my son. You're growing up.

Seriously, all kidding aside, that was great. It just doesn't change my opinion that he gets unjustly shit on at times by people who don't accurately assess a play he was involved in, and instead, they just go along with the crowd and trust people who are wrong.

But yes, definitely, good on you. In your case, you proved me wrong. I called you out, and you called my bluff. In retrospect, my comment about you being president was highly unfair, and I apologize.

PuckMunchkin - I edited this post a little. Not looking for thanks or anything. Just want it on the record. Fair is fair.

 

[HockeyWooot]

While I agree with your point, Di Giuseppe and Mikheyev are fine. Everyone else is a culprit, though.

Agreed for sure, I should have specified. Main point is the proportion of these wingers on the roster is too low.