German Football 2021-2022

[HajdukSplit]

Kohfeldt out at Wolfsburg, one of the more overrated managers considering the relative hype he got when hired by Bremen a few years back

 

[John Price]

 

[Chimaera]

I mean... I'm happy he kept VfB up. But it was touch and go.

 

[cgf]

I mean... I'm happy he kept VfB up. But it was touch and go.

He’s not a bad coach, but I’m not sure he’s a good one either.

 

[Chimaera]

He’s not a bad coach, but I’m not sure he’s a good one either.

He isn't. Considering some of the bozos they've had go through there at various times, and the retreads who constantly pop up, he's not awful.

I just wish they could get one guy for a while, stick with him, and build something. They clearly can identify and develop talent. They have some resources (at least enough to compete for a spot in 4-8), and a pretty good fan base. It's also a nice place to live. They've just never been able to stick with manager for more than a season.

 

[luiginb]

He might not be a bad coach but that roster should have been fighting for Europe, not surviving relegation. He stuck too much with some players (that god awful goalie for starters) and had bad luck with injuries too.

 

[HajdukSplit]

Hoffenheim sack Hoeness after two seasons, team didn't have a good second half of the season and missed out on Europe completely

 

[Chimaera]

He might not be a bad coach but that roster should have been fighting for Europe, not surviving relegation. He stuck too much with some players (that god awful goalie for starters) and had bad luck with injuries too.

They've certainly had some bad luck.

I would be willing to give him another season, and hopefully he can build on it. You are correct that roster is not bad. It's going to get picked apart this summer however.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

He isn't. Considering some of the bozos they've had go through there at various times, and the retreads who constantly pop up, he's not awful.

I just wish they could get one guy for a while, stick with him, and build something. They clearly can identify and develop talent. They have some resources (at least enough to compete for a spot in 4-8), and a pretty good fan base. It's also a nice place to live. They've just never been able to stick with manager for more than a season.

VfB Stuttgart is the by far biggest and most popular club in one of the richest regions of Germany. The fact they aren't up there challenging Bayern (even if in vain like Dortmund the last decade) is kind of a failure. Really, it's the failure of clubs like Stuttgart, Hamburg and to a lesser degree Schalke and Köln that's at the root of Bayern's quasi monopoly. Those clubs have the popularity in large regions with plenty of economic heft behind them to build something lasting and good. Instead you've got clubs with corporate 'sugar daddies' like Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim and Leipzig playing the role of challenger while their astroturf character ensures they can't possibly ever build up popular support to rival Bayern.

 

[Chimaera]

It isn't that simple. Stuttgart have a good supporter base. They also have good sponsors, a nice region, and a decent tradition of the club. They've also been pretty good at developing their players.


But they have a fraction of the support and facilities that Bayern Munich has. A club like Stuttgart would have to thread the needle on basically all of their purchases and development, get a good manager (and keep him), and then when they built that solid generation, convince it to not leave and go elsewhere. Sure, they have some money, and they've consistently made some money moving players on, but... They also have to get big transfers right. They haven't consistently done that. They've also not consistently been successful with managers, and while sponsorships and support are good, they're not Bayern level. They're not even BVB level. I mean, of my family members who are basically from Stuttgart (just outside), a big chunk of them don't even support Stuttgart. Two of my cousins are Bayern fans. They'll go to a couple Stuttgart matches a year, but they don't even really see them as their team.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hoffenheim sack Hoeness after two seasons, team didn't have a good second half of the season and missed out on Europe completely

Seems very harsh. He’s a good manager. They were building well. What are they expediting? Nagelsmann isn’t coming through that door. Expectations should be lower. They underachieved slightly. Not that much.

 

[Chimaera]

I mean having basically looked like they were going down for a couple of weeks, having also been down, I can see why people went bonkers.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Seems very harsh. He’s a good manager. They were building well. What are they expediting? Nagelsmann isn’t coming through that door. Expectations should be lower. They underachieved slightly. Not that much.

Agreed, they were in the same range of where I would have expected and were just a bit outperformed by Koln, Freiburg, Mainz, and Union overall. I guess their trend in the last quarter of the season with European slots in grasp, and losses to Hertha and Bochum and only a draw vs Furth was just a bit too much underperformance. I still think he's a pretty solid manager and will do well elsewhere--and they have a pretty decent set-up and pipeline for him to have kept building with.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I mean having basically looked like they were going down for a couple of weeks, having also been down, I can see why people went bonkers.

I removed the tweet because of the new pasting format on this website combined it with the prior post. I agree with you. I thought the initial remark was very distasteful.

Here was the tweet though.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

It isn't that simple. Stuttgart have a good supporter base. They also have good sponsors, a nice region, and a decent tradition of the club. They've also been pretty good at developing their players.


But they have a fraction of the support and facilities that Bayern Munich has. A club like Stuttgart would have to thread the needle on basically all of their purchases and development, get a good manager (and keep him), and then when they built that solid generation, convince it to not leave and go elsewhere. Sure, they have some money, and they've consistently made some money moving players on, but... They also have to get big transfers right. They haven't consistently done that. They've also not consistently been successful with managers, and while sponsorships and support are good, they're not Bayern level. They're not even BVB level. I mean, of my family members who are basically from Stuttgart (just outside), a big chunk of them don't even support Stuttgart. Two of my cousins are Bayern fans. They'll go to a couple Stuttgart matches a year, but they don't even really see them as their team.

You need to go back further. Of course, now nobody has the facilities or support of Bayern. But clubs like Stuttgart, which long was considered a big, rich club, just have a history of underachievement. Bayern wasn't always Bayern of now. Bayern didn't start the aggressive push into "European Super Club" territory until well into the 2nd half of the 00s. Prior to then Bayern were already the biggest club who won more than most, but they didn't win every year and other clubs could put 11 guys on the pitch better than Bayern's best 11 pretty frequently.

So many German clubs of some repute suffered either from being in an economically depressed region or based in smaller cities with lack of commercial power, but the Stuttgart region has been one of the big winners of the last 70 years of German history. First the area attracted a ton of human and financial capital from the lost territories in the East in the immediate post-war era, then its pro-business, anti-communist political leadership coupled with a near complete absence of socialists continued to make it highly attractive for corporations. As a result, Munich might have BMW but Stuttgart has the much bigger and more powerful Daimler. And as if one corporate giant enough they also have Bosch, plus a myriad of suppliers for those and other mid-sized companies. In other words, the region is swimming in money and really is pretty much second to none in Germany economically.

Honestly, if you ask me the main difference between Bayern and Stuttgart is that Stuttgart got the worse Hoeness brother. If Uli had gone to the VfB and Dieter to Bayern, we might well look at German football very differently. Bayern likely still would be a 'big club' but I'd wanna bet that Stuttgart would be up there.

 

[Chimaera]

You need to go back further. Of course, now nobody has the facilities or support of Bayern. But clubs like Stuttgart, which long was considered a big, rich club, just have a history of underachievement. Bayern wasn't always Bayern of now. Bayern didn't start the aggressive push into "European Super Club" territory until well into the 2nd half of the 00s. Prior to then Bayern were already the biggest club who won more than most, but they didn't win every year and other clubs could put 11 guys on the pitch better than Bayern's best 11 pretty frequently.

So many German clubs of some repute suffered either from being in an economically depressed region or based in smaller cities with lack of commercial power, but the Stuttgart region has been one of the big winners of the last 70 years of German history. First the area attracted a ton of human and financial capital from the lost territories in the East in the immediate post-war era, then its pro-business, anti-communist political leadership coupled with a near complete absence of socialists continued to make it highly attractive for corporations. As a result, Munich might have BMW but Stuttgart has the much bigger and more powerful Daimler. And as if one corporate giant enough they also have Bosch, plus a myriad of suppliers for those and other mid-sized companies. In other words, the region is swimming in money and really is pretty much second to none in Germany economically.

Honestly, if you ask me the main difference between Bayern and Stuttgart is that Stuttgart got the worse Hoeness brother. If Uli had gone to the VfB and Dieter to Bayern, we might well look at German football very differently. Bayern likely still would be a 'big club' but I'd wanna bet that Stuttgart would be up there.

I don’t disagree with most of this. But the real gap has been developed in the last 20 or so. At this point it’s not feasible.

Too much has been done to separate the ideas of the clubs. Stuttgart is a fun day out, and people love the club, but there is no drive to go to Europe or be among the elite. People would take decent, not near the relegation scrap.

 

[Live in the Now]

Uh oh. HSV might win something

 

[cgf]

Uh oh. HSV might win something

I'm going to laugh so hard if Hertha can't turn it around. All those millions and that super snazzy stadium only to end up needing a Terodde/Polter of their own to get them back into BuLi1

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I'm going to laugh so hard if Hertha can't turn it around. All those millions and that super snazzy stadium only to end up needing a Terodde/Polter of their own to get them back into BuLi1

Bobic leaves Frankfurt to go to Hertha and ending up in BL2 would be really amusing having just watched them win Europa. Add on to that Hutter getting dumped after one season and Wolfsburg (with Glasner leaving) flirting with the relegation zone at times themselves for the extra lulz.

 

[cgf]

Bobic leaves Frankfurt to go to Hertha and ends up in BL2 would be really amusing. Especially with Hutter getting dumped after one season and Wolfsburg (with Glasner leaving) flirting with the relegation zone at times themselves.

I'm already giddy just from the news that FC VW is looking at Kovac to replace Glasner

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I'm already giddy just from the news that FC VW is looking at Kovac to replace Glasner

I thought that whole situation was really weird, considering how well Glasner had them playing. I'm not familiar with all the ins and outs of these clubs but I guess Wolfsburg's GM is a pain in the ass to get along with?

 

[cgf]

I thought that whole situation was really weird, considering how well Glasner had them playing. I'm not familiar with all the ins and outs of these situations but I guess Wolfsburg's GM is a pain in the ass to get along with?

That's my guess, I've only heard bad things about working for Schmadtke.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Dortmund sacked Rose.

BVB trennt sich von Trainer Rose - Nachfolger Terzic?

Es ist der nächste Trainerwechsel in der Bundesliga - und der hat es in sich: Borussia Dortmund trennt sich von Marco Rose.

www.kicker.de

Uh oh. HSV might win something

After watching the game yesterday I'm sure none of them belongs to 1. BL. Just brutal.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Favre to Gladbach. Well,...

Favre-Comeback auf der Zielgeraden

Das Comeback von Lucien Favre bei Borussia Mönchengladbach steht bevor. Das Engagement des Schweizers, der die Nachfolge von Adi Hütter antreten soll, ist auf den Weg gebracht.

www.kicker.de

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Dortmund sacked Rose.

BVB trennt sich von Trainer Rose - Nachfolger Terzic?

Es ist der nächste Trainerwechsel in der Bundesliga - und der hat es in sich: Borussia Dortmund trennt sich von Marco Rose.

www.kicker.de

After watching the game yesterday I'm sure none of them belongs to 1. BL. Just brutal.

Well that coaching merry-go-round last season didn't do anyone any favors, except for Frankfurt apparently.