GDT: GDT #70 New York Islanders vs Winnipeg Jets | March 23rd | 1:00 PM | F/6-3 W

[MJF]

Rebuild all day long. Go for it. A good portion of the Isles problem is the ‘core’ everyone seems to want to keep.

My curiosity was that from a consistent complainer to get what he wants, how long after that rebuild honeymoon does it turn back to complaining?

My guess is pretty quickly like most fan bases. After year 3, they are looking for playoffs or falling just shy. Year 4, it’s playoffs or the fan ‘speed up the rebuild’ meter goes into overdrive.

Gotcha.

I think you’re high on your own brand.

 

[NYI365]

Incredible I'm going to the game tomorrow they'll have all their goals today and I'll get a shut out tomorrow

I'd just like to point out I am Nostradamus

 

[periferal]

Solve that problem? It's not my nor any other poster on this site's job to solve that problem. I'm somewhat amazed that you simply cannot comprehend this.

If Lou is no longer GM after this season, I'm not going to shed any tears. I'm also not clamoring for his firing...yet. However, if he triples-down on this roster and brings the same squad back yet again, then I will (for whatever that's worth, and in reality, it's worth nothing). I would be astounded if there are no changes made this off-season with or without Lou at the helm. It may not be a complete housecleaning like some here want, but I think a turnover will begin in the summer. I think some combination of the UFAs with the maybe exception of Reilly walking and at least one roster player with a bad contract moved will happen. I think cap will begin to be cleared, the team will start to get younger, and the team's identity will begin to change (and if not, then off with Lou's head). Because life is not completely static despite your firm belief that it somehow is. I think Lou know has finally seen enough, and not moving futures in a deal to save this season this past deadline speaks louder than any statement he's made to the media about the current roster.

Solve the problem = Just give some ideas about how to fix things with this organization to the best of your ability.

Thank you for making an attempt at that.

Rebuild all day long. Go for it. A good portion of the Isles problem is the ‘core’ everyone seems to want to keep.

My curiosity was that from a consistent complainer to get what he wants, how long after that rebuild honeymoon does it turn back to complaining?

My guess is pretty quickly like most fan bases. After year 3, they are looking for playoffs or falling just shy. Year 4, it’s playoffs or the fan ‘speed up the rebuild’ meter goes into overdrive.

Give this franchise the fresh start it desperately needs and watch me take on the same type of optimistic renewed energy I had the day snow was fired.

And not that you'll ever do this, but check my temperament when we went through the last rebuild starting around 2008. Whiel there was no hope under wang/snow, it was the right thing to do as the team was entirely average and going nowhere after the Ryan Smyth trade - Also with zero prospects of value in the farm system. Very similar to now.

Now I disagreed with a ton that snow did (starting with his use of most of those top 5 picks), but had he maximized who he drafted this team would've been in a much different place from about 2012 on.

What I'm not ok with, and you should not be ok with, is a team that cannot make the playoffs and has quit like the one you watched tonight...and bringing 80% of this same group back next year.

 

[doublechili]

There's also the semantics of "rebuild" vs. "retool". There's no formal definition of what either mean. One poster's retool is another's rebuild. @MJF illustrated this perfectly days ago when he categorized what I believe @doublechili described as a "retool" a "rebuild". I suspect a lot of posters have a somewhat similar vision of how they think they team should proceed forward despite calling it two separate things.

FWIW, I've always been pretty clear to say that I'm against a "tear down rebuild", which is what some posters were advocating (including trading Sorokin). That's where you trade all marketable assets for futures, intentionally stink for a handful of years in an effort to get top 5 or 10 picks, and hope you'll be some amazing Cup contender in 7 or 8 years. That's what I consider a "rebuild" to be. Anything else is "retooling", with the only question being the degree of the retool.

There are situations where a house will be torn down and they'll build a new house on the old foundation, but they're relatively rare. The more common scenario is to tear down the house and foundation and start totally from scratch with a new foundation. That's a "rebuild".

 

[doublechili]

The first change has to be the guy who made the gamble. He can’t remain as team president and hover over the next GM. Clean out the management suite.

If I'm Malkin and I am not satisfied with the results and want change, then this is the perfect time to make a wholesale change. Reset everything, maybe even letting the new guy pick his own coach. As I said the other day, rebuild management and bring in a new creative, aggressive guy and staff, and then have him retool the roster. Maybe the team can legit contend in a few years rather than 7 or 8 years, and maybe not totally stink in the meantime.

 

[Throttle]

There's also the semantics of "rebuild" vs. "retool". There's no formal definition of what either mean. One poster's retool is another's rebuild. @MJF illustrated this perfectly days ago when he categorized what I believe @doublechili described as a "retool" a "rebuild". I suspect a lot of posters have a somewhat similar vision of how they think they team should proceed forward despite calling it two separate things.

I don’t mind whatever direction the team goes in. Stay the course, re-whatever, etc. I don’t care whether Lou stays or goes either. Whatever happens, happens.

Now, there’s some issues that need to be addressed in the offseason:
- A new GM or a hard moves by Lou to upset the loyalty card and shake this team. Gonna be easier with a new GM to do that.
- figure out what the heck is wrong with Sorokin, he’s a mess.
- either get two more wingers that people believe can play with Barzal or trade him. Playing this dumb game of chasing players to play with one guy is kinda a fools errand. Crosby is known as of one the hardest players to play with, yet…
- trade Pulock, he was paid to bring offense, he ain’t. Bye.
- sunset clutter and Martin.
- buy out Lee.
- make Horvat captain.
- trade the 1st for a young 20-23 player as a top 6 or top 4 d-man.

 

[Strummergas]

The first change has to be the guy who made the gamble. He can’t remain as team president and hover over the next GM. Clean out the management suite.

It'll be interesting to see if he gets a chance to correct his mistakes. First thing that would need to happen is that Lou would have to admit that he needs to change it up. If he can't do that, then I would hope the owners make that change. If he can, he may potentially get a shot to do so.

 

[Strummergas]

Solve the problem = Just give some ideas about how to fix things with this organization to the best of your ability.

Thank you for making an attempt at that.

Didn't I provide that in my response to you? I can't tell if your "thank you" was sarcastic or not.

That's how I think this off-season will proceed. Anything beyond that is not on my list of qualifications. Depending on the moves that are made, they could potentially contend for a playoff spot next season, but I don't think we see the housecleaning that some are demanding.

FWIW, I've always been pretty clear to say that I'm against a "tear down rebuild", which is what some posters were advocating (including trading Sorokin). That's where you trade all marketable assets for futures, intentionally stink for a handful of years in an effort to get top 5 or 10 picks, and hope you'll be some amazing Cup contender in 7 or 8 years. That's what I consider a "rebuild" to be. Anything else is "retooling", with the only question being the degree of the retool.

There are situations where a house will be torn down and they'll build a new house on the old foundation, but they're relatively rare. The more common scenario is to tear down the house and foundation and start totally from scratch with a new foundation. That's a "rebuild".

That's my definition as well.

 

[Bones45]

Just a quick thought

Didnt Vegas create a team mostly from players which were left un-protected from other teams?

And didnt Vegas have a killer team, which made it to the Finals in their first year?

And wouldnt that show that proper coaching and motivation and players adhereing to a plan/system show that an team with average talent is able to have a good season with the right conditions?

So we have Sorokin, Dobson, Barzal and Horvat -- and we are now pretty much back to .500.

Maybe a rebuild isnt needed, we need players and coaches who actually give AF.

Just my .02.

 

[Nassau Revisited]

Just a quick thought

Didnt Vegas create a team mostly from players which were left un-protected from other teams?

And didnt Vegas have a killer team, which made it to the Finals in their first year?

And wouldnt that show that proper coaching and motivation and players adhereing to a plan/system show that an team with average talent is able to have a good season with the right conditions?

So we have Sorokin, Dobson, Barzal and Horvat -- and we are now pretty much back to .500.

Maybe a rebuild isnt needed, we need players and coaches who actually give AF.

Just my .02.

Getting rid of the country club boys would certainly be a start

 

[Nizami Ganjavi]

I just hope the strategy isn't to into give up on the next couple of seasons. The goal should be to improve NEXT season and be competitive.

 

[periferal]

Didn't I provide that in my response to you? I can't tell if your "thank you" was sarcastic or not.

Wasn’t being sarcastic at all. A serious thank you.

That's how I think this off-season will proceed. Anything beyond that is not on my list of qualifications. Depending on the moves that are made, they could potentially contend for a playoff spot next season, but I don't think we see the housecleaning that some are demanding.

That’s the thing…I think that Lou has backed this team into a corner where any GM won’t be many opportunities to even just shed big contracts this offseason. And even if there is the cost to do so will directly hurt the ability to trade for impactful/immediate help.

 

[periferal]

Just a quick thought

Didnt Vegas create a team mostly from players which were left un-protected from other teams?

And didnt Vegas have a killer team, which made it to the Finals in their first year?

And wouldnt that show that proper coaching and motivation and players adhereing to a plan/system show that an team with average talent is able to have a good season with the right conditions?

So we have Sorokin, Dobson, Barzal and Horvat -- and we are now pretty much back to .500.

Maybe a rebuild isnt needed, we need players and coaches who actually give AF.

Just my .02.

Vegas was gifting an incredibly favorable set of expansion rules combined with 30 GMs who weren’t exactly sure how to navigate them.

Not fair to compare the Isles or any other team to them. If Vegas had to start a total rebuild over now from scratch they couldn’t possibly win a Cup as fast as they did as an expansion franchise.

 

[Throttle]

So, Vegas is still living off their expansion rules? Probably more the owner/franchise demonstrated a continued desire to win in a favorable destination that players wanted to sign and go there.

They use their picks and picked assets as collateral, not as ‘wait forever and hope you get a Dobson and not a Wally’ - we’ll just take Hanifin or Eichel please.