Gurglesons
Registered User
Pretty much. I do think there is an element of hungry youth we are missing in our roster for Sullivan’s guys though.
Post-Game Talk: |Game #LII | Loss | The one where the Jerks jerked us around
- Thread starter Zirakzigil
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Pretty much. I do think there is an element of hungry youth we are missing in our roster for Sullivan’s guys though.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
See, I kinda do think the playoffs do stem down to luck. Was it the "right build" that HBK went on that insane run in 2016, or did they just get super lucky due to a Malkin injury and an insanely hot line?
Ugene Magic
EVIL LAUGH
At the same time only giving up one PP goal each game shouldn't really matter considering the two teams they played.
Expecting perfection against the better teams/PP's in the league and only giving up 1 PPG should be seen as a win. Each game came with outliers outside of the PK.
Toronto is the SHG and going 0-5 on the PP.
Canes is giving up goals in 9 seconds of the start of two periods.
Just pure daggers.
Big Friggin Dummy
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- Feb 22, 2019
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Playoffs are a huge amount of luck. But your goalie can't shit the bed due to fatigue or nerves, and you gotta have more than one functioning line. Also, it helps to not get the snot kicked out of you all series long while the refs swallow the whistles and stop calling the game like it should be called. All causes for concern for this team for the past handful of years.
Well, last game wasn't the kick in the pants they needed to fix the defense. Hopefully this game was.
doesn’t matter…we’re still in the POs and only thing that matters is prepping for that
So deducting empty nets points to get a better sense of Crosby's production with the GCR line is manipulation and garbage? If you think empty net pts are worth nearly as much as 5vs5 pts then I don't know what to tell you except you are flat out wrong.
Crosby has had a ton of empty net pts this year and had a ton last year as well. More than at any point in his career. This has helped cover up for his declining 5vs5 production
Icarium
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- Feb 16, 2010
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The power play really needs to adjust when it plays against more aggressive PK. Okay, the Canes have the best PK in the league so not scoring until the 6 on 4 isn't a tragedy but allowing more shorthanded breakaways than scoring chances for you is unacceptable. Malkin playing the point was risky back in 2018 when he was younger and faster and is courting disaster when he is 35. Especially with the reckless way Letang has played lately.
A loss is not the end of the world, the difference was a random deflection off Staal after all (though Jarry had to make some spectacular saves) but not learning from our mistakes is not a good trend. The Canes are a faster, younger team, so we had to be smarter. We weren't and the game was still close, that's positive, I guess. But we have watched this movie before, I doubt we will start playing much more smartly any time soon, alas. Maybe if a real challenger for the playoff spot appears since the first half of March is brutal and we might have big slump if Jarry doesn't stand on his head.
As it is, we probably think we can half-ass it and still coast into the playoffs and that is actually rather likely to happen. Problem we haven't played smart in the playoffs since 2017 either.
A loss is not the end of the world, the difference was a random deflection off Staal after all (though Jarry had to make some spectacular saves) but not learning from our mistakes is not a good trend. The Canes are a faster, younger team, so we had to be smarter. We weren't and the game was still close, that's positive, I guess. But we have watched this movie before, I doubt we will start playing much more smartly any time soon, alas. Maybe if a real challenger for the playoff spot appears since the first half of March is brutal and we might have big slump if Jarry doesn't stand on his head.
As it is, we probably think we can half-ass it and still coast into the playoffs and that is actually rather likely to happen. Problem we haven't played smart in the playoffs since 2017 either.
Gurglesons
Registered User
100% Get this team in the playoffs and they potentially go on a run. Agreed.
ChaosAgent
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- May 8, 2018
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The power play really needs to adjust when it plays against more aggressive PK. Okay, the Canes have the best PK in the league so not scoring until the 6 on 4 isn't a tragedy but allowing more shorthanded breakaways than scoring chances for you is unacceptable. Malkin playing the point was risky back in 2018 when he was younger and faster and is courting disaster when he is 35. Especially with the reckless way Letang has played lately.
A loss is not the end of the world, the difference was a random deflection off Staal after all (though Jarry had to make some spectacular saves) but not learning from our mistakes is not a good trend. The Canes are a faster, younger team, so we had to be smarter. We weren't and the game was still close, that's positive, I guess. But we have watched this movie before, I doubt we will start playing much more smartly any time soon, alas. Maybe if a real challenger for the playoff spot appears since the first half of March is brutal and we might have big slump if Jarry doesn't stand on his head.
As it is, we probably think we can half-ass it and still coast into the playoffs and that is actually rather likely to happen. Problem we haven't played smart in the playoffs since 2017 either.
Good post. This team is feeling like 2020 pre-COVID. Falling apart and getting exposed structurally at basically the exact same time in the season.
The PP is very slow which is inhibiting its ability to dump/chase and the Letang-Geno-Sid decision making at the top has been unacceptable lately. It may be time to move Geno down low and add Matheson or something.
Icarium
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- Feb 16, 2010
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I forgot to mention that the winning streak we had depended an awful lot of scoring first and killing teams with fast counter-attacks. Sleepwalking through the first ten minutes as we seem to do a lot lately isn't a recipe for success.
the reality is that the Leafs and Canes have younger faster players and just as much skill…they have just as good goaltending too..we aren’t going to win games against teams like that playing the way Sully wants to play because those teams are just much better at it, they get better execution and don’t have four centers on the AARP list…we can’t play any other way, like the Isles play for example, because we don’t have the physical players…so we’re in a bind…another first round exit
Gurglesons
Registered User
I'm assuming this is about the new identity line of Boyle, ZAR, and Simon.
DesertedPenguin
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- Mar 11, 2007
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This just doesn't make sense. I think you have unrealistic expectations for what the line is supposed to provide.
GCR at 5-on-5 this season:
53.37 Corsi For %
60.71 Goals For %
55.41 Expected Goals For %
55.22 High Danger Corsi For %
61.11 High Danger Goals For %
Penguins without any of those three on the ice at 5-on-5 this season:
52.00 Corsi For %
52.67 Goals For %
53.80 Expected Goals For %
52.87 High Danger Corsi For %
48.81 High Danger Goals For %
That's really good production, especially the Goals For % and High Danger Goals For %.
What more do you want?
Gurglesons
Registered User
A team that can adjust given the situation in front of them.
Is a slightly positive GF% worth letting the bottom lines drown?
DesertedPenguin
Registered User
- Mar 11, 2007
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GCR was the best line today.
Carolina Hurricanes @ Pittsburgh Penguins, 2022-02-20
Is it worth torpedoing your best line in the hopes of reviving others?
doesn’t matter who actually puts in the puck…they roll four lines at a better pace than we do and cause opposing teams to make mistakes
Gurglesons
Registered User
I think so. I also could honestly care less about GCR. It’s not the dynamic line Sullivan thinks it is.
Off until Thursday? Then the old Sat/Sun/Thu/Fri back to back back to backs. Better get the first two NYR/CBJ because the next two are at TBL/CAR.
Tender Rip
Wears long pants
Woke up early to see the game delayed without knowing the score.
After completing that and seeing this thread.... there's really a lot of on the one side and on the other side to be said. A bit like I feel about this team, and Sullivan.
Canes goal nr. 1 is a combo of Kapanen, Erod and Ruh not getting it done and then loose puck being available in the slot. Nothing Jarry can do. Somewhat fortuitous.
Canes goal nr. 2 is blind luck for Staal off a rebound. Seems to bounce off his own knee and trickles through Jarry. Complete coincidence.
Canes goal nr. 3 is Dumo giving away the puck straight up the middle and then failing to cover his man. Can't happen kind of goal that happens too often for our 1st pairing.
Canes goal nr. 4 is ZAR and Boyle being shown up for being too slow to play on the PK together, again. Good puck movement by the Canes, but likely doesn't happen if ZAR polishes off Teravainen on the wall like he should have.
Sure, Canes had other chances, some good ones too and Jarry especially robbed Teravainen once when 1st line (and 1st pairing) was caught running around, but for the majority, I did not think Canes played better or created better chances. They got the breaks needed more so than we did, and I refuse to see this as an indictment on our potential as such, as it was an even game and they're a very good team.
What seriously did not look good to me, again, was the PP where we had huge difficulties creating anything, and gave up too much even if this time we weren't scored on. Easily could have though, and it is telling that Canes had twice as many shots on goal while killing than we did on the PP. There is little new to say. When that unit is fully on, it makes everyone pay, but it has its obvious weaknesses. Letang was never a real QB. He works because of his athleticism and if he had the hockey brain to match he would have been an all time great. Malkin playing a quasi point position is always a risk at this stage of his career. Sid's passing is risky - and when we have difficulties setting up, neither Rust or Guentzel are very hard players to deal with when we dump it in, meaning teams that are able to press the first three hard while maintaining structure can see good results.
Our PK in the last two games have given up two goals on four kills. It's been the same combo of forwards and D-men. ZAR and Boyle, Dumo and Marino. While very different goals, lack of foot speed has been the central factor both times. I took a look at PK statistics after the game, and while ZAR had elite numbers earlier in the season, now with Boyle they are tanking and it's somewhat funny to see that unlike every other PK'ing forwards, ZAR hardly every register's shots while on the PK, which is indicative of us not having the puck and being passive when he is there. I'm not saying he is a bad PK'er, but he is not nearly as good at it as some think, and he absolutely requires someone else with speed to be with him.
Now.... Sully/the roster.
I understand those who feel aggrieved that by far our most dangerous line sees criticism. But apart from criticizing the times when they play bad defense/give up cheap goals (which is a theme), the criticism is not on the players, it is on Sully.
Opponents key in on that line, and we put so much of our quality on it, that it HAS to be a big positive factor. If it was actually dominating it would be something else, but reality is that they're just playing even with opposition 5 on 5 and only empty net production masks that.
But what about the middle 6 then - isn't the lack of scoring there a bigger problem? Yes it is, but when Kapanen is not turning into what we hoped, when Erod has returned to what he is, and when Blue and Zucker are injured, then there is just not enough quality to go around. Sullivan cannot be blamed for that as such, but he can be blamed (and should be) for trying out so little in the way of new solutions or spreading the wealth for a game or two at least to see how that'd work.
Then line 4.... role players who are not getting scored on, except for the PK. How can non-season ticket holders possibly gripe about those?!
Well, how can it be that a team that now is 4-3-3 in its last 10, failing to get 1 single ES win during its last 6 home games, beating only Philly.. in OT.. should consider its 4th line something that cannot be changed for a different look?
We are virtually a lock for a playoff spot. Why are we not trying out options to see if we have better fits?
You have someone like Zohorna who has been on the ice for 5 goals in favor and none against in his 8 games. Clearly, being on the second PP unit, Sully knows he has some skill also, and he played with reasonable success on the 3rd line before Heinen came back, giving us a guy with x-factor due to his size, something we have too little of.
We KNOW what we have in Simon for instance. I like Simon. I like that he can be plugged in anywhere in an emergency and do a good but limited job. But even if I ignore listed Pens X to not hear it on repeat ALL the time, it IS true that Simon should not be a regular or keep Sully from at least experimenting with fits.
We are not good enough to be more than a dark horse needing a lucky hot run in this configuration. That must be obvious. Even fully healthy, its hard to see it.
Why not at least try to find out if there are other configurations that might yield something better, make the team more than the sum of its parts, including making moves on L1?
That's the thing I have a real problem with regarding Sully, and I happen to think it has been a factor also in the playoffs.
When he came up, he brought some hungry youth in who played with passion and he preached balanced scoring/depth.
Maybe he wasn't creative. Perhaps he just brought some boys he was comfortable with from WBS and lucked into winning combo's due to injuries back in 16, a bit like Bylsma just lucked into a cup winning chemistry charm when Sykora HAD to be ditched in 2009 and Talbot became a Super Star. I hope its not just that, because for this team to be more than good and a playoff participant, we need a little of the magic back. And then we can be really good again, I think.
After completing that and seeing this thread.... there's really a lot of on the one side and on the other side to be said. A bit like I feel about this team, and Sullivan.
Canes goal nr. 1 is a combo of Kapanen, Erod and Ruh not getting it done and then loose puck being available in the slot. Nothing Jarry can do. Somewhat fortuitous.
Canes goal nr. 2 is blind luck for Staal off a rebound. Seems to bounce off his own knee and trickles through Jarry. Complete coincidence.
Canes goal nr. 3 is Dumo giving away the puck straight up the middle and then failing to cover his man. Can't happen kind of goal that happens too often for our 1st pairing.
Canes goal nr. 4 is ZAR and Boyle being shown up for being too slow to play on the PK together, again. Good puck movement by the Canes, but likely doesn't happen if ZAR polishes off Teravainen on the wall like he should have.
Sure, Canes had other chances, some good ones too and Jarry especially robbed Teravainen once when 1st line (and 1st pairing) was caught running around, but for the majority, I did not think Canes played better or created better chances. They got the breaks needed more so than we did, and I refuse to see this as an indictment on our potential as such, as it was an even game and they're a very good team.
What seriously did not look good to me, again, was the PP where we had huge difficulties creating anything, and gave up too much even if this time we weren't scored on. Easily could have though, and it is telling that Canes had twice as many shots on goal while killing than we did on the PP. There is little new to say. When that unit is fully on, it makes everyone pay, but it has its obvious weaknesses. Letang was never a real QB. He works because of his athleticism and if he had the hockey brain to match he would have been an all time great. Malkin playing a quasi point position is always a risk at this stage of his career. Sid's passing is risky - and when we have difficulties setting up, neither Rust or Guentzel are very hard players to deal with when we dump it in, meaning teams that are able to press the first three hard while maintaining structure can see good results.
Our PK in the last two games have given up two goals on four kills. It's been the same combo of forwards and D-men. ZAR and Boyle, Dumo and Marino. While very different goals, lack of foot speed has been the central factor both times. I took a look at PK statistics after the game, and while ZAR had elite numbers earlier in the season, now with Boyle they are tanking and it's somewhat funny to see that unlike every other PK'ing forwards, ZAR hardly every register's shots while on the PK, which is indicative of us not having the puck and being passive when he is there. I'm not saying he is a bad PK'er, but he is not nearly as good at it as some think, and he absolutely requires someone else with speed to be with him.
Now.... Sully/the roster.
I understand those who feel aggrieved that by far our most dangerous line sees criticism. But apart from criticizing the times when they play bad defense/give up cheap goals (which is a theme), the criticism is not on the players, it is on Sully.
Opponents key in on that line, and we put so much of our quality on it, that it HAS to be a big positive factor. If it was actually dominating it would be something else, but reality is that they're just playing even with opposition 5 on 5 and only empty net production masks that.
But what about the middle 6 then - isn't the lack of scoring there a bigger problem? Yes it is, but when Kapanen is not turning into what we hoped, when Erod has returned to what he is, and when Blue and Zucker are injured, then there is just not enough quality to go around. Sullivan cannot be blamed for that as such, but he can be blamed (and should be) for trying out so little in the way of new solutions or spreading the wealth for a game or two at least to see how that'd work.
Then line 4.... role players who are not getting scored on, except for the PK. How can non-season ticket holders possibly gripe about those?!
Well, how can it be that a team that now is 4-3-3 in its last 10, failing to get 1 single ES win during its last 6 home games, beating only Philly.. in OT.. should consider its 4th line something that cannot be changed for a different look?
We are virtually a lock for a playoff spot. Why are we not trying out options to see if we have better fits?
You have someone like Zohorna who has been on the ice for 5 goals in favor and none against in his 8 games. Clearly, being on the second PP unit, Sully knows he has some skill also, and he played with reasonable success on the 3rd line before Heinen came back, giving us a guy with x-factor due to his size, something we have too little of.
We KNOW what we have in Simon for instance. I like Simon. I like that he can be plugged in anywhere in an emergency and do a good but limited job. But even if I ignore listed Pens X to not hear it on repeat ALL the time, it IS true that Simon should not be a regular or keep Sully from at least experimenting with fits.
We are not good enough to be more than a dark horse needing a lucky hot run in this configuration. That must be obvious. Even fully healthy, its hard to see it.
Why not at least try to find out if there are other configurations that might yield something better, make the team more than the sum of its parts, including making moves on L1?
That's the thing I have a real problem with regarding Sully, and I happen to think it has been a factor also in the playoffs.
When he came up, he brought some hungry youth in who played with passion and he preached balanced scoring/depth.
Maybe he wasn't creative. Perhaps he just brought some boys he was comfortable with from WBS and lucked into winning combo's due to injuries back in 16, a bit like Bylsma just lucked into a cup winning chemistry charm when Sykora HAD to be ditched in 2009 and Talbot became a Super Star. I hope its not just that, because for this team to be more than good and a playoff participant, we need a little of the magic back. And then we can be really good again, I think.
Last edited:
ColePens
RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
This is nothing new. It's been there all season. And it HAS to be by design. That's the sad part. It works, if your forwards rotate back. They just don't.
All 6 dmen have been awful, IMO. Like Ruh is at least at the level I would expect of him. Letang is crazy up/down right now. He's either elite or just making really bad decisions on pinching. Dumo/Marino/Matheson are horrific. Pets went back to being Pets after a STRONG start to the season.
But this is part schematic and part players aren't playing well. That pinching component is by design and it's garbage. I still go back to that Game 7 2017 pinch against Washington that turned into a Horny goal. That pinch was such a gamble. It's been a part of the design by Sully for a long time. I think Schultz made the pinch and if he doesn't get a 50/50 puck, it's for sure 2 on 1 the other way.
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