Post-Game Talk: Game 9 - Kings stun B's in last second of OT - LA 2 BRUINS 1 F/OT

[McGarnagle]

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not since I'm not going to read through 7 pages of new discussion, but if Cassidy thought it through, he should've told Pasta and Krug to cheat their asses off on the faceoff. Really dig in, go over the line, tie up Kopitar. Then worst case scenario is they toss both and call a delay of game penalty (with less than a second) which means they're not stuck with the icing lineup and can put Bergeron back into the game to take the draw.

Edit: Well I just went back one page and saw it was already mentioned. My bad. I really Cassidy'd that one.

 

[VanIsle]

Bruins lost to a very good team not worried at all about 1 game.

I am worried about the bottom 6 though.

2 goals by Schaller that is all.

Can't win without secondary scoring.

 

[BruinDust]

Bruins lost to a very good team not worried at all about 1 game.

I am worried about the bottom 6 though.

2 goals by Schaller that is all.

Can't win without secondary scoring.

If/when they get all their forwards healthy, I think they have the talent to run 3 pretty good scoring lines once they figure out how to put together all the pieces.

Marchand - Bergeron - Bjork
Debrusk - Krejci - Pastrnak
Vatrano - Backes - Heinen

 

[UncleRico]

I love blanket statements like:

“Krug is not a 2nd pair D on a championship team.”

Do you know who the 2nd pair D were the last two years on the Penguins?

Hint...Krug is better than all of them.

The thing about hockey is that its a two way game. Pitt didnt have an offensive defender like Krug, but Pittsburgh also didnt have any defenders who had worse defensive statistics than krug. Bruins goalies had a 89.7% save percentage with Krug on the ice. Which would have ranked last on Pittsburgh. Krug would have also ranked last in plus/minus on Pitt. And Krug would have had the lowest rate of defensive half the ice zone starts on Pittsburgh among defenders.

Only thing Krug would have led Pittsburgh defenders in, is assists, offensive zone starts and PP TOI.

 

[BruinDust]

The thing about hockey is that its a two way game. Pitt didnt have an offensive defender like Krug, but Pittsburgh also didnt have any defenders who had worse defensive statistics than krug. Bruins goalies had a 89.7% save percentage with Krug on the ice. Which would have ranked last on Pittsburgh. Krug would have also ranked last in plus/minus on Pitt. And Krug would have had the lowest rate of defensive half the ice zone starts on Pittsburgh among defenders.

Only thing Krug would have led Pittsburgh defenders in, is assists, offensive zone starts and PP TOI.

Pittsburgh didn't have a offensive D like Krug? Ever hear of Justin Schultz?

And the Bruins goalie GAA when Krug was on the ice, as well as what his plus minus would be, is completely irrelevant. Did Krug have Fleury and Murray in his net for 82 games?

He did have 25 games of mediocre to poor goaltending from Khudobin/Subban/McIntyre.

And comparing +/- between players on two different teams is pointless, considering the Penguins as a team were a +48, more than double the Bruins team +/- at +22.

 

[JP Nolan]

Great game to watch, despite the sometimes sloppy play on both sides.

LA is a very “heavy” team and I was pretty happy with the way the B’s supposedly soft team handled them.

Some “blame” to go around in the loss. Krug with a glaring mistake on Toffoli’s first goal, and not sure what was wrong with Pasta in OT. He was uncharacteristically sloppy with the puck and looked very lackadaisical. I realize it’s a tough thing to predict, but Cassidy has got to have a FO guy on the ice in OT, or at least someone more experienced in the dot than Pasta. All he had to do was tie up Kopitar for a second.

I’m not sure what the refs were watching at times during the game, and particularly in OT. Felt like I was back in the “clutch and grab” era. LA player (Iafollo) runs over Rask (not pushed by D) and Dustin Brown mugging Pasta on that flip to open space by Heinen (I know that Brown is off to a hot start, but not sure it’s sustainable, given what I saw from him yesterday? He seems to be unable to keep up and if the refs did their jobs, he should have had 2/3 penalties).

I have always liked McAvoy, but he’s exceeding my expectations. I thought the Doughty comparisons by Jack and Brick were over the top, but man, he had a strong game. Think he could be a Top 5 NHL D before too long.

Not a big fan of Nash as the 3rd line C. I like him as a 4th line defensive center, but he has next to no offensive instincts. Vatrano has been playing very well IMO, but he seems alone on that line. When DK returns stick Vatrano and Heinen on Backes wings for the 3rd line. Also not a fan of the Postma-Miller 3rd pair. Killer is growing on me, but I like him on the right side. With McQ hurt, would much rather see O’Gara on Miller’s left.

Tough ending but you have to take a lot of positives out of the game.

Krug has looked awful this year and we are beyond the point of giving the excuses that he didnt get a pre season. First kings goal last night came off a Krug turnover, then the OT goal came off Krug's which was a terrible icing because he forced pasta to have to take the faceoff. Just a complete lack of awareness and situational hockey IQ.

Right now he is a -10, which is on pace for the worst single season plus minus by any player in NHL history. He obviously wont beat that record, but its certainly not good even if we are just 9 games into the season (krugs only played 8). Only 8 out of his 32 shot attempts have registered as a shot on goal and he is averaging a career high in power play minutes per game with a career low in power play points per/60.

Bruins need to stop using him as much in defensive situations, he has a career 59.8 offensive zone start, but only a 54.7% this year. Krug is a -20 even strength in his last 89 game

He did struggle to start and came back strong offensively last year, but he was poor defensively last season. Out of all defenders on the bruins, Bruins goalies had the worst even strength save percentage with Krug on the ice and the same goes for this year through his first 8 games played.

Its crazy because offensively he has solid instincts, but defensively he has a terrible defensive hockey IQ. He often gets caught in the middle of deciding whether to pinch or not. He is a poor situational defensive hockey player. No better example than last night when he iced the puck with .9 seconds left, he could have held the puck and got us to a shootout, instead he iced it, keeping the players on the ice and Pasta had to take the faceoff. Absolutely inexcusable play and beyond poor recognition of the situation at hand. These are not isolated incidents either.

Krug is not a 2nd pairing LHD on a championship team. Great puck mover and passer, but his defensive shortcomings over the past 89 games, worst goalie save % among B's defenders with him on the ice, and a -20 over that stretch is proving he cant match up with other teams first or 2nd lines.

If the Bruins can get Krug as a 3rd pairing defender who gets the majority of PP time thatd be great. Unfortunately due to an aging Chara nad lack of high end available LHD depth, Krug is forced to play up a line and his defensive numbers struggle due to that.[

Krug has looked awful this year and we are beyond the point of giving the excuses that he didnt get a pre season. First kings goal last night came off a Krug turnover, then the OT goal came off Krug's which was a terrible icing because he forced pasta to have to take the faceoff. Just a complete lack of awareness and situational hockey IQ.

Right now he is a -10, which is on pace for the worst single season plus minus by any player in NHL history. He obviously wont beat that record, but its certainly not good even if we are just 9 games into the season (krugs only played 8). Only 8 out of his 32 shot attempts have registered as a shot on goal and he is averaging a career high in power play minutes per game with a career low in power play points per/60.

Bruins need to stop using him as much in defensive situations, he has a career 59.8 offensive zone start, but only a 54.7% this year. Krug is a -20 even strength in his last 89 games. That is literally terrible. The bruins as a team are +20 dating back to the start of the 2016 season.

So many accurate statements here.....And Stats.

 

[wintersej]

The thing about hockey is that its a two way game. Pitt didnt have an offensive defender like Krug, but Pittsburgh also didnt have any defenders who had worse defensive statistics than krug. Bruins goalies had a 89.7% save percentage with Krug on the ice. Which would have ranked last on Pittsburgh. Krug would have also ranked last in plus/minus on Pitt. And Krug would have had the lowest rate of defensive half the ice zone starts on Pittsburgh among defenders.

Only thing Krug would have led Pittsburgh defenders in, is assists, offensive zone starts and PP TOI.

You keep coming back to on ice save %. But, its almost like you are finding a stat to fit your narrative. No one is going to defend his start to this season, but you are just grasping at straws here. Especially since just the year before, in 15-16, Krug had a 93.52% on ice save percentage. That would have been 2nd on PIT last year. Its almost like there is random year to year variance! WOW!

What about actual goals allowed? Last year he finished better than Chara, Kevan, McQuaid, and Carlo in GA/60 at 5 on 5. From 2015-today he is 22nd in the entire NHL in GA/60 at 5 on 5 (min 2000 mins). Some of that is his zone starts. Totally. He is sheltered so he can provide offense. But, a lot of it is his ability to prevent shots by moving the puck. Is he a poor 1 on 1 defender? Sure. But, he more than makes up for it by keeping the puck away from the defensive zone.

 

[bruinmann77]

Love this Charlie kid

 

[s3antana5757]

I love blanket statements like:

“Krug is not a 2nd pair D on a championship team.”

Do you know who the 2nd pair D were the last two years on the Penguins?

Hint...Krug is better than all of them.

I understand where you're coming from GloryDaze. I think you could argue it both ways though. Krug has not won a championship yet and certainly hasn't done it as a 2nd pairing D. But you could make that argument for a whole host of people you know? Shattenkirk, Brodie, Ekblad, etc. don't have Cups. But certainly if the teams around were better, they could easily be a 1st or 2nd pairing D on a cup winning team.

 

[wintersej]

If they had someone, sure. Like you point out though, they don't.

Cehlarik?

 

[Cronuss]

Just finally watched the game.

Kings are not on my top 3 or 4 more hated teams.

What a bunch of punk ass snakes. All game long.

f*** those guys. They are making the old LA Raider's look like angels.

 

[mikelvl]

That was a great hockey game that ended with a kick in the balls.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Skill mismatch? Really?

I agree it was an obvious mismatch. Backes was behind any play pasta was involved in and cannot react to a guy like that. It reminded me of Seguin trying to beat 2 or 3 guys by himself. That is a checking line and nothing more, DeBrusk is a gritty grinding guy like Paille. Pasta had to create things and finish them on his own, very easy to see. If you want to keep him at center then make it an out and out checking line. Maybe give him Vatrano, he is learning that style and hounds the puck too. I want Pasta to go back with Bergy for an attitude adjustment. Get him back to being the streamlined player he was last year. This year Pasta is playing to Euro loosey goosey for me.

 

[UncleRico]

Pittsburgh didn't have a offensive D like Krug? Ever hear of Justin Schultz?

And the Bruins goalie GAA when Krug was on the ice, as well as what his plus minus would be, is completely irrelevant. Did Krug have Fleury and Murray in his net for 82 games?

He did have 25 games of mediocre to poor goaltending from Khudobin/Subban/McIntyre.

And comparing +/- between players on two different teams is pointless, considering the Penguins as a team were a +48, more than double the Bruins team +/- at +22.

When Krug is on the ice this year goalies have a 83.1% save percent, lowest among all defenders on the team. Last season he was last as well among defenders with an 89.7%. He is a -20 over his last 89 games. He cannot hang with other teams top 2 lines defensively, and statistics show he hasnt been successful since he has been given a more prominent role. Drop him down to the 3rd pairing D and give him majority of the powerplay

 

[BruinDust]

I agree it was an obvious mismatch. Backes was behind any play pasta was involved in and cannot react to a guy like that. It reminded me of Seguin trying to beat 2 or 3 guys by himself. That is a checking line and nothing more, DeBrusk is a gritty grinding guy like Paille. Pasta had to create things and finish them on his own, very easy to see. If you want to keep him at center then make it an out and out checking line. Maybe give him Vatrano, he is learning that style and hounds the puck too. I want Pasta to go back with Bergy for an attitude adjustment. Get him back to being the streamlined player he was last year. This year Pasta is playing to Euro loosey goosey for me.

And that is Backes fault? Debrusk is a checker now?

Anyways I already addressed this in an earlier comment explaining my viewpoint. Feel free to go read it if you like.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I love blanket statements like:

“Krug is not a 2nd pair D on a championship team.”

Do you know who the 2nd pair D were the last two years on the Penguins?

Hint...Krug is better than all of them.

I guess what that statement means... is if a team is overpowered at forward with probably the 2 best forwards in the game..... a lot of strong support players... some great goaltending... and gets some bounces they might be able to win with krug as a top 3 dman

but if the team is depending on being a deep team where all their players pull their weight and make an appropriate contribution for their icetime/job assignment... its debatable that a team could expect krug to be able to help them win a cup if hes being asked to step up as a top 3 dman

I mean theres been some pretty crappy players on some pretty good Stanley cup winning teams that were carried along to a ring. I think chris nilan has a few cup rings if I'm not mistaken.

krug is hot garbage if hes not scoring... this is something a lot of us have been saying for the past couple years. his fans think he is a well rounded dman whose defense play helps us too... this stretch of games right now might start to quiet some of these fans. it should.

when he is scoring... we've seen he can score a lot. scoring can make up for his very poor defensive play. he can be a useful player. he needs to be strongly protected to be useful... limited in his exposure... used in the right situations... but if managed correctly he is a very damn good pp specialist who I think can skate in a bottom pair with a bigger guy like mcquaid and hold his own against the other team's less talented forwards

if I was building a cup contender... no way would I try to get krug at 5 plus million cap hit as part of my top 3 defense

 

[BruinDust]

When Krug is on the ice this year goalies have a 83.1% save percent, lowest among all defenders on the team. Last season he was last as well among defenders with an 89.7%. He is a -20 over his last 89 games. He cannot hang with other teams top 2 lines defensively, and statistics show he hasnt been successful since he has been given a more prominent role. Drop him down to the 3rd pairing D and give him majority of the powerplay

First of all, you quote my post but ignored every point (all valid ones mind you) I made.

Second of all, is the fact that Krug is the weakest defensively among the Bruins current D group some kind of shock?

You keep pulling up stats like GAA when on ice and plus/minus to enforce your argument, when really is anyone surprised that from a defensive standpoint, Krug is the teams weakest defender when the other 5 guys are Chara, Carlo, Miller, McAvoy, and McQuaid. That's not some sort of newsflash on a team with 4 guys who are primarily defensive D-men, and a rookie who appears can do it all.

But that doesn't mean Krug should be on the bottom pair, or get more PP duty. That doesn't mean Krug is an ineffective player. He's one of the best puck-moving D in the sport. What exactly does increasing his PP duty accomplish when you have McAvoy on the team. Are you suggesting Krug play the entire 2 min PP?

Krug in his current role on the 2nd pair with Carlo and Kevan Miller as the 5th D who can play both sides is a good situation for the Bruins.

 

[BruinDust]

I guess what that statement means... is if a team is overpowered at forward with probably the 2 best forwards in the game..... a lot of strong support players... some great goaltending... and gets some bounces they might be able to win with krug as a top 3 dman

but if the team is depending on being a deep team where all their players pull their weight and make an appropriate contribution for their icetime/job assignment... its debatable that a team could expect krug to be able to help them win a cup if hes being asked to step up as a top 3 dman

I mean theres been some pretty crappy players on some pretty good Stanley cup winning teams that were carried along to a ring. I think chris nilan has a few cup rings if I'm not mistaken.

krug is hot garbage if hes not scoring... this is something a lot of us have been saying for the past couple years. his fans think he is a well rounded dman whose defense play helps us too... this stretch of games right now might start to quiet some of these fans. it should.

when he is scoring... we've seen he can score a lot. scoring can make up for his very poor defensive play. he can be a useful player. he needs to be strongly protected to be useful... limited in his exposure... used in the right situations... but if managed correctly he is a very damn good pp specialist who I think can skate in a bottom pair with a bigger guy like mcquaid and hold his own against the other team's less talented forwards

if I was building a cup contender... no way would I try to get krug at 5 plus million cap hit as part of my top 3 defense

Are you really using Chris Nilan as an argument to support your argument that Torey Krug is an overpaid PP specialist D?

 

[Mick Riddleton]

And that is Backes fault? Debrusk is a checker now?

Anyways I already addressed this in an earlier comment explaining my viewpoint. Feel free to go read it if you like.

DeBrusk is a hounding checker with some decent hands that is his upside and nothing wrong with that,. Not sure who does not see that, baffles me. When he starts scoring more then maybe we have something extra. Who said Pasta's attitude was backes fault, you got that completely wrong, feel free to read it again. I was talking about Pasta and his attitude and getting back on the top line where he will be be more responsible. His lackadaisical style has nothing to do with Backes but his own undoing,. Put Pasta under the spotlight on the top line and straighten him out as Bergy is the best at that.

 

[JP Nolan]

I guess what that statement means... is if a team is overpowered at forward with probably the 2 best forwards in the game..... a lot of strong support players... some great goaltending... and gets some bounces they might be able to win with krug as a top 3 dman

but if the team is depending on being a deep team where all their players pull their weight and make an appropriate contribution for their icetime/job assignment... its debatable that a team could expect krug to be able to help them win a cup if hes being asked to step up as a top 3 dman

I mean theres been some pretty crappy players on some pretty good Stanley cup winning teams that were carried along to a ring. I think chris nilan has a few cup rings if I'm not mistaken.

krug is hot garbage if hes not scoring... this is something a lot of us have been saying for the past couple years. his fans think he is a well rounded dman whose defense play helps us too... this stretch of games right now might start to quiet some of these fans. it should.

when he is scoring... we've seen he can score a lot. scoring can make up for his very poor defensive play. he can be a useful player. he needs to be strongly protected to be useful... limited in his exposure... used in the right situations... but if managed correctly he is a very damn good pp specialist who I think can skate in a bottom pair with a bigger guy like mcquaid and hold his own against the other team's less talented forwards

if I was building a cup contender... no way would I try to get krug at 5 plus million cap hit as part of my top 3 defense

Bingo.....We have a winner.....He is a PP specialist. And a bottom pair guy. Makes 2 million to much.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

As for the face off goal I was taught as a winger your job was to stop the shot if the center losses the draw. Get your butt out there and block it or tip it or go at the man. The winger on that should have known Pasta was in tough. No way that shot should have got through. It still does not matter if it was even Bergy, the only dangerous play with less then a second was a shot on net.

If I was Krug, I am not sure I would want to pass to some select ones, seems they react a little slow or maybe having Bergy for so long it spoils you. That fish bowl he wears on his face is not easy to play with and that ice has not been good all year. Sure he could have made them better or gained the blue line on the icing but maybe this is a result of the change is team style we are seeing, going to a faster quicker game. Krug as a puck handler will be in on more of those mistakes versus someone like Miller, who they do not want lugging it up. You win some you lose some.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Put Krug on the market and he gets 5 million easily and he will have teams lining up for him. He has played some good games this year. MacAvoy will take over for him eventually but does not have the scoring as of yet, love his game though.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Are you really using Chris Nilan as an argument to support your argument that Torey Krug is an overpaid PP specialist D?

More like pointing out some teams win cups with players that arent the horse pulling the cart

The op was pittsburg won with substandard dmen... i suggest those substandard dmen werent the KEY to winning... but rather pittsburgh was overpowered enough at other positions to win inspite of their defense. Hence throwing out a name like chris nilan. Im sure i can find 100 names from the last 20 cup winners i could use

Might krug play top 4 on a cup winner? Sure... worst players have. Would a cup contender happily make krug their first option to fill their top 4 role?

I know i wouldnt

But when hes on a hot streak and on pace for 50 points i luke warmly say hes worth 5 mill caphit

Hes injured now... ive seen him score in the past. Ill give him time to get healthy

But this is a guy that hurts us when hes not scoring

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I guess what that statement means... is if a team is overpowered at forward with probably the 2 best forwards in the game..... a lot of strong support players... some great goaltending... and gets some bounces they might be able to win with krug as a top 3 dman

but if the team is depending on being a deep team where all their players pull their weight and make an appropriate contribution for their icetime/job assignment... its debatable that a team could expect krug to be able to help them win a cup if hes being asked to step up as a top 3 dman

I mean theres been some pretty crappy players on some pretty good Stanley cup winning teams that were carried along to a ring. I think chris nilan has a few cup rings if I'm not mistaken.

krug is hot garbage if hes not scoring... this is something a lot of us have been saying for the past couple years. his fans think he is a well rounded dman whose defense play helps us too... this stretch of games right now might start to quiet some of these fans. it should.

when he is scoring... we've seen he can score a lot. scoring can make up for his very poor defensive play. he can be a useful player. he needs to be strongly protected to be useful... limited in his exposure... used in the right situations... but if managed correctly he is a very damn good pp specialist who I think can skate in a bottom pair with a bigger guy like mcquaid and hold his own against the other team's less talented forwards

if I was building a cup contender... no way would I try to get krug at 5 plus million cap hit as part of my top 3 defense

Now Krug is “hot garbage” when he’s not scoring? Where is that advanced stat listed?

Since when do teams have Top 3 D? In my experience, teams usually have two D at a time on the ice, so you would call a Dman 1st pair, 2nd pair, bottom pair, Top 2, Top 4...is this like the Triangle offense only with D?

I have personally listed the number of Dmen who are not as good offensively and similarly defensively to Krug at least three times. I don’t have the energy to do it again. In the new NHL, GM’s want offensive production from the back end and they are willing to pay average defenders who can contribute offensively. Krug is not overpaid by league standards.

As far as you building a Cup contender, I look forward to the day that some owner has the intelligence and foresight to hand you the reins of an NHL team. It would certainly be nice interesting.

 

[KnightofBoston]

There's certainly something to be said for Pasta scoring less centered by Backes instead of Krejci, but Pasta played like garbage all on his own Saturday night. It was disappointing to watch