GDT: Game 79: Red Wings at penguins 7:00 pm et 4/11/24 (BSD, ESPN+)

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
29,211
13,733
Yzerman and Lalonde are both "process" guys. Anyone who understands process goals vs outcome goals should have no trouble understanding why Lalonde says the things he says after games like last night. I'm not putting a value on process vs outcome, just saying that's why he says those things.
The trick is, I understand Yzerman's process. I don't understand Lalonde's. The defensive coverage, break out, zone entry, and most offensive zone systems have been a shitshow for two years now. If there is a cohesive system, the players aren't following it. And if the players aren't following it, just what in the f*** are you doing as a coach?

And note, I don't agree with all of Yzerman's process (over stocking on mediocre vets) but I at least understand it for what it is.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
11,025
8,775
Didn't bother listening to Lalonde post game. I assume it was another generic "we played really well, we weren't supposed to be in a playoff position" response. And I'm f***ing sick of it.
With all the times that Larkin has had to speak after an ugly loss, saying that we have to be better, you'd think that at some point the coach would shoulder some of it as well.

"We lost some aspects of our game tonight... and some of that is on me. Every game is now critical to the playoff picture, and I need to better prepare the players for these big moments."

SOMETHING other than, 'Gee whiz. We still have a path to get there.'
 

Detroit Knights

Registered User
Feb 29, 2012
3,531
2,038
Whether we continue to adhere to this or not, I'm glad I didn't watch that garbage. Kudos to Raymond for trying to put the team on his back, but in a game of this importance, 6 goals on 27 shots is a downright inexcusable team performance.

PIT is playing like they should.
DET is playing like they still don't have an identity.
well there was no actual agreement so I guess its null and void. Now I have to watch the rest of the games to see the dumpster fire, great.

I will say, if pit and wsh lose two of their final 3 (and that is actually very possible) and we win two of our final 3, we are in the playoffs. Getting to OT was massive.

Didn't bother listening to Lalonde post game. I assume it was another generic "we played really well, we weren't supposed to be in a playoff position" response. And I'm f***ing sick of it.
he did say that he didn't look at the underlying numbers but he assumed that they would show that we should have won the game.

That's new right?

Wouldn't know, I got perma-banned.
man, i know this is a message boards, but you gotta see that was a sarcastic comment. It's obvious
 

LongTimeDRWF

Registered User
Feb 10, 2024
212
123
NS
Yea, the way Lalonde talks makes me think he would've missed the playoffs if he coached Vegas their first season.

"Everyone thought you were send offs and wouldn't make the playoffs and you know what they might be right, guys. You might just be send offs who won't make the playoffs and that's okay because it's our expectation of you."
I don't watch pre/post game pressers with coaches and players, I think they are pretty much PR pumps to attract casual fans, I'd be way more interested into what is actually being said behind the closed doors (which I doubt we ever will). The rare time you get a maverick coach these days, they usually create a media circus.
 

OldnotDeadWings

Registered User
Sep 18, 2013
300
287
A lot of the frustration/disappointment/vitriol aimed at Lalonde is at least partly the result of where the Wings were at one point, 13 games over .500 and on pace for a 100-point season. This just reinforced the delusion that the Wings were already a good team. They weren't and aren't. How much credit was ever given to Lalonde for the team out-performing its real level and where they were at that point? A rough guess: next to none. All the stats about their overall performance since then over X number of games overlook the most important part: It's a fragile team with not enough talent to overcome losing their most important player for two weeks, and their second-most important Lyon dropping off from very good to not good enough to erase the d-zone issues which have been present since Game 1.

Lalonde has to be at least a little responsible for poor d-zone play all year. How much depends on the critic. But there are two things often overlooked: 1) The primary emphasis going into the season was on developing secondary scoring. One-dimensional guys like DBC, Ghost, Sprong were added to address that, subsequently Kane. Secondary scoring problem largely solved; 2) Defensive systems are not developed overnight and almost always require both the right personnel and a fair amount of player familiarity with teammates and system responsibilities. The Wings turned over almost half their roster to start the season, many of the newcomers not reliable in their own zone. The loss to Pittsburgh pretty accurately summed up where they are as a team this year: A good effort with enough goals to win 90 per cent of the time, but too loose and irresponsible defensively and not bailed out on this night by goaltending good enough to limit the damage.

Until SY's first-round picks start busting, the rebuild is on track. If it seems to be happening too slowly (and it was unnecessarily slow this season with Ed) it's mostly because you don't realize the journey still has 3-4 years to go.
 

minimal

Registered User
Apr 12, 2024
11
11
I don't watch pre/post game pressers with coaches and players, I think they are pretty much PR pumps to attract casual fans, I'd be way more interested into what is actually being said behind the closed doors (which I doubt we ever will). The rare time you get a maverick coach these days, they usually create a media circus.
I can't believe that people actually think that what Lalonde says and does post-game to the media is exactly what he says and does in the locker room. Context matters--how the hell do you know he's not fire and brimstone behind closed doors?

As far as this post-game interview--did anyone actually watch or read the interviews in the locker room? You could hear a pin drop. Everyone was taking the result seriously. The reality is they got a point and kept themselves (impossibly) in the playoff race, so I don't have an issue if he's trying to keep spirits high at this point in the season. There's plenty you can criticize about, but this is asinine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PenskyMaterial

14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
14,124
1,220
Norway
Congratulations to Raymond on his 1st NHL hat trick. Was it 1st?
Congratulations to Larkin on his 500 points.

Raymond has made a big step in his development. He has steadily made improvement since January. I predict he will join Larkin next season as a player who can carry a line/team. Not consistently, but some parts of the season. I think we will see him as a game changer.

Edvidson looks great. He is easily our top 5/6 player.

With Raymond, Seider, Edvidson and obviously Larkin our goal next season should be 95-98 points.
Yzerman has to do a bit better job. Lalonde has definitely to do a better job. Lyon stole 5-10 points, but Lalonde managed somehow to lose them.

Lyon was not rock solid as he was during his hot streak, but unfortunately not solid either.
 
Last edited:

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,904
15,011
Sweden
The trick is, I understand Yzerman's process. I don't understand Lalonde's. The defensive coverage, break out, zone entry, and most offensive zone systems have been a shitshow for two years now. If there is a cohesive system, the players aren't following it. And if the players aren't following it, just what in the f*** are you doing as a coach?

And note, I don't agree with all of Yzerman's process (over stocking on mediocre vets) but I at least understand it for what it is.
It’s not beem a shitshow at all.
 

Rzombo4 prez

Registered User
May 17, 2012
6,045
2,755
Who gives a flying f*** about post-game press conferences.

At this point, results are all that matter. You don't deserve to win if you give up 6 goals.
 

Axel Sandy Pelikan

Jonatan Berggren is our Lord and Savior,
May 11, 2023
1,010
1,002
Didn't bother listening to Lalonde post game. I assume it was another generic "we played really well, we weren't supposed to be in a playoff position" response. And I'm f***ing sick of it.

I mean... with the exception of Lyon last night... and I'll toss in Kane too, he was real bad. They DID play well and they probably aren't supposed to be in a playoff position.

They absolutely played well enough that they could have won against Washington and against Pittsburgh. They just had bad breakdowns that led to them not.

Play every game like you did against Washington with that push and you're going to be a top team in the league after 82 games. I mean, honestly, Pitt had a 5-3 lead in the third with a completely dead Wings team and they blew it.
 

Axel Sandy Pelikan

Jonatan Berggren is our Lord and Savior,
May 11, 2023
1,010
1,002
Who gives a flying f*** about post-game press conferences.

At this point, results are all that matter. You don't deserve to win if you give up 6 goals.

Let's be real. You don't deserve to win if you blow a 5-3 lead in the third either.

Results are all that matter. Wings win the next 3, we don't care about any of this. Wings lose the next 3? This game then ended up not mattering a whole lot.

Have you been watching at all?

Explain to me how a 2-1 loss is a shitshow. Yeah, you would have liked to see more greasiness and crashing the net, which probably leads to them winning that game. But 2-1 losses happen. Good goalies happen. Charlie Lindgren is either on or he gets completely blown up. He was on that game.
Yeah, Lyon against Pittsburgh? Shitshow. No reason for Letang's goal, O'Connor's goal, or Carter's goal. They're not difficult chances and he biffed them all.
 

13to40

Registered User
Feb 29, 2016
1,197
823
Montreal
I agree that doing any damage in the playoffs was never an expectation for this season. But:

1) Making the playoffs should have been, if only after the January streak. Expectations can and should change.

2) I don't see this system being successful long term. So if it's not a strategy with expectations of making the playoffs, and it's not a strategy that will eventually be highly successful...why are they bothering to use it at all?
The whole part of a full rebuild is going through the whole 10 yards before having any sort of success. I would say this team is landed around between 5-7 yard range right about now (almost at the first down for the Lion fans)

If you’re looking at the season’s success/expectations based off what’s happened since January vs the whole year, then yes I agree. The expectations should have altered and adjusted. Looking at this season as a whole though, the team is right where it should be. The older “place holder/filler” players who are currently in the line up who we complain about (Copp/Compher (my favourite)/ Chiarot (actually playing well)/ Petry / Holl etc… are just here to help create a winning culture and to create internal competition.

These were never the players the team is designed to win the cup with. Think of them as a stepping stone or the beginning of the foundation for a house. Need a good foundation before you build on top of it. They are supposed to be teaching the younger players how to be a pro, train etc…

Am I pissed off that the team keeps on crapping away a chance to be in the playoffs? Yeah I’m livid. This team was painful to watch the past 5-6 years and finally it seemed like they put something special together for 3/4 of the season and unfortunately the 1/4 where they suddenly disappeared is arguably the most important part… but that doesn’t take away from the big picture that they are trending in the right direction and at the beginning of the season the goal was to compete for a spot. They are going to be competing down to the last game of the season which I have tickets too, and I hope it’s worthwhile strapping a damn octopus to my torso so I can get the chance to throw it onto the ice because what better way to start another playoff streak than by doing that.
 

RED WINGS STOMP

Registered User
Nov 28, 2022
929
1,192
People tend to overreact a little after tough losses. This board is a prime example.

The last two losses suck, but the team as a whole is nowhere close to the dumpster fire some claim. The get rid of this guy and that guy stuff can be a bit much.

At the same time, I get it. I wanted this playoff-less streak over so bad and thought we had it. Sadly, the Wings have fumbled it away. Could of recaptured it, but one hot goalie night and another really bad goalie night later and here we are.

Would love for a turn of fate over the next four days to change that, but the script seems to read more pain.
 
Last edited:

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
29,211
13,733
Let's be real. You don't deserve to win if you blow a 5-3 lead in the third either.

Results are all that matter. Wings win the next 3, we don't care about any of this. Wings lose the next 3? This game then ended up not mattering a whole lot.



Explain to me how a 2-1 loss is a shitshow. Yeah, you would have liked to see more greasiness and crashing the net, which probably leads to them winning that game. But 2-1 losses happen. Good goalies happen. Charlie Lindgren is either on or he gets completely blown up. He was on that game.
Yeah, Lyon against Pittsburgh? Shitshow. No reason for Letang's goal, O'Connor's goal, or Carter's goal. They're not difficult chances and he biffed them all.
I'm talking about two seasons, not two games.

Yeah I also watched the pre-Lalonde days of double-digit losses every other night.
The individual players are better. The systems, not so much. We still struggle to properly defend, break out, enter, or maintain offense without chipping or individual efforts. We are so disconnected at all times, it's wild.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FMichael

Hockeyfan2390

Registered User
Nov 19, 2010
9,110
6,503
Kansas City, MO
Didn't bother listening to Lalonde post game. I assume it was another generic "we played really well, we weren't supposed to be in a playoff position" response. And I'm f***ing sick of it.

c3258290c996bac1c75259419970b34e.gif
 
  • Love
Reactions: JohanFranzenstein

theYman

Registered User
Feb 28, 2008
21,480
1,807
Lalonde is a goober. Launch his ass along with Perron, Petry Chiarot and Debrincat into the sun.
 

FMichael

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
5,309
5,266
Wisconsin
I'm talking about two seasons, not two games.


The individual players are better. The systems, not so much. We still struggle to properly defend, break out, enter, or maintain offense without chipping or individual efforts. We are so disconnected at all times, it's wild.
Now granted - the guys Yzerman had signed/traded for aren’t hi-end talent (outside of Kane and a lesser extent DeBrincat), but experienced players who can play well enough in a proven system to be competitive on a nightly basis…Under Lalonde - this team has been consistently inconsistent.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad