GDT: Game 77 | Columbus at Edmonton | 3/27 9PM

[Sore Loser]

The people I know who spend time in Europe were worried about Puljujarvi and his ability to translate his game to NA and the NHL.

Not to say he would have been a bad pick or the wrong pick, just wondering. He was nowhere near the can't-miss prospect everyone claimed him to be.

Jarmo and his team did a great job projecting where Dubois might end up. I think he's getting there sooner than they expected, but it's amazing what quality scouting and foresight can do.

Bob McKenzie talked about courage and convictions when we made that pick. Sometimes you have to ignore the popular consensus and go with what you believe.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I'll admit I was one of the people grilling Jarmo for passing on JP. But he really knocked it out of the park so far with PLD. The story has yet to be written completely and I think JP is going to be good, but Chapter 1 is a clear advantage to PLD and I hope and believe he can continue to grow to something special.

 

[Oilers in NS]

4 more than CBJ.

Actually, I considered it a curse.The draft lotto has changed a few times. We have terrible management making crucial decisions. The year you guys finished last, we won the draft lotto and the stupid idiots picked Yakupov and you guys picked Murray. We already had forwards and needed Defence. That was the time to trade down and get defence. We came in last twice and received Hall and RNH

 

[Oilers in NS]

And a 3rd(draisitil) and 4th(puljujarvi) overall picks to go along with those 1sts

They have more top 5 picks in the last 5 seasons than the CBJ have had in their entire history.

You might want to rethink that one
6 top 5 picks for CBJ since 2001
13 top 10 picks for CBJ since 2001
CBJ traded their 2011 1st to Philly, Vorachek and Cousins for Jeff Carter . The 1st you traded was 8th overall so I guess that is 14 top 10 picks squandered.
Our last 5 seasons - 2017 -22nd, 2016 -4th, 2015 - 1 (gold card), 2014 - 3, 2013 - 7

Columbus Blue Jackets Playoff History | 2001 - 2017

Now before you report me, I realize our team has been terrible this year after last year. I blame that on Chiarelli. Hopefully he will be axed. You guys have made some great advancements. I'm really a big fan of Seth Jones. We have his brother in our system.

 

[absolute garbage]

The people I know who spend time in Europe were worried about Puljujarvi and his ability to translate his game to NA and the NHL.

Not to say he would have been a bad pick or the wrong pick, just wondering. He was nowhere near the can't-miss prospect everyone claimed him to be.

The quality of European scouting in general is really lacking within the NHL teams and the scouting community when you compare it to the various NA leagues and the attention they get. Even though it's gotten a lot better since the 90s when Detroit was pretty much only team to do it, IMO it's still the clearest area in the game you can exploit if you focus on it and put enough resources and competent people to do it.

Jarmo and the Jackets seem to be the leading organisation to do that at the moment. They've been going to Europe a lot with their picks, and they've been getting some nice results. Nutivaara (7th round) and Gavrikov (6th round) are great examples. As was passing on Puljujarvi. Of course there's been misses too, like the Carlsson pick (passing on Aho there was very surprising, mainly because they were able to identify that Puljujarvi was overrated but somehow didn't see that Aho was the real deal - which is what a lot of Finns were telling).

The way Puljujarvi was lumped in with Laine in the NA media was one of the most ridiculous things I've seen regarding draft narratives. It never made any sense to most people who actually watched these guys and their skillset. Now, Edmonton has butchered his development as usual which hasn't helped, but there's no way I would have picked him even at 4th. He might still become a top line winger, but he was never even in the same ballpark with Laine.

 

[JacketsFanWest]

The quality of European scouting in general is really lacking within the NHL teams and the scouting community when you compare it to the various NA leagues and the attention they get. Even though it's gotten a lot better since the 90s when Detroit was pretty much only team to do it, IMO it's still the clearest area in the game you can exploit if you focus on it and put enough resources and competent people to do it.

It's more difficult to scout as well since there are such a wide variety of leagues with different levels of coaching. Scouts have to be able to see past issues caused by the team the player is on and try to project how that player would be in North America on a smaller rink.

It's easy for scouts to watch a OHL game and figure out how players compare to other players at a similar stage. It's far more difficult when you have such drastically different situations and players at a young age playing against men nearly twice their age.

For example, scouts seemed to have completely missed the boat by passing up David Pasternak who was playing for the Allsvenskan team Södertälje in his draft year and was putting up good numbers. But Södertälje was a mess at the time, they were playing a run & gun, no defense style and Pasternak even admitted he wasn't putting in the effort he needed to. Södertälje was losing and in a downward death spiral at the time (eventually relegated to Tier 3 semi-pro hockey league HockeyEttan (1).

Junior leagues in Europe have a far greater talent gap between the top players and those that will never reach a higher level of hockey. Top players can easily cherry pick and play at 50% and aren't challenged.

Scouts can just go on evaluating technical skills, but there are plenty of players in the KHL with great technical skills. There has to be an guess on how likely the player can make the transition to North America and that's incredibly difficult to do with 17-18 year old kids.

There's a development element that has to be taken into consideration - how do teams take these draft picks and develop them. The Oilers haven't really figure that out with their 1st round picks and Puljujarvi needs to be developed.

 

[absolute garbage]

It's more difficult to scout as well since there are such a wide variety of leagues with different levels of coaching. Scouts have to be able to see past issues caused by the team the player is on and try to project how that player would be in North America on a smaller rink.

It's easy for scouts to watch a OHL game and figure out how players compare to other players at a similar stage. It's far more difficult when you have such drastically different situations and players at a young age playing against men nearly twice their age.

For example, scouts seemed to have completely missed the boat by passing up David Pasternak who was playing for the Allsvenskan team Södertälje in his draft year and was putting up good numbers. But Södertälje was a mess at the time, they were playing a run & gun, no defense style and Pasternak even admitted he wasn't putting in the effort he needed to. Södertälje was losing and in a downward death spiral at the time (eventually relegated to Tier 3 semi-pro hockey league HockeyEttan (1).

Junior leagues in Europe have a far greater talent gap between the top players and those that will never reach a higher level of hockey. Top players can easily cherry pick and play at 50% and aren't challenged.

Scouts can just go on evaluating technical skills, but there are plenty of players in the KHL with great technical skills. There has to be an guess on how likely the player can make the transition to North America and that's incredibly difficult to do with 17-18 year old kids.

There's a development element that has to be taken into consideration - how do teams take these draft picks and develop them. The Oilers haven't really figure that out with their 1st round picks and Puljujarvi needs to be developed.

Agree with everything. It's like NA high school hockey on steroids. It is more difficult scout, which means the rewards are also better (you can find guys like Nutivaara in 7th round, and pass on the "obvious" pick like Puljujarvi).

It's an area where you want to put a lot of emphasis; the opportunities are greater because it's kind of all over the place. And it seems like Jarmo is leading the way in that.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

When it comes to scouting in Europe, Jarmo be there.

 

[thebus88]

Things I wanna add a little late:

1) As good/great as Jenner and HIS line have been recently, it is a perfect example of a line "meshing" and playing well along with them getting favorable offensive usage. It should be no surprise that former "Redundanteer" Jenner's offensive production has seen a huge bump while playing with 2 skilled and offensive minded players. They also have been getting favorable matchups and many offensive draws. Not taking anything away from them just want to bring attention to the often "ignored" USAGE of players and/or a line.

2) Can anybody say that "2nd line C" Dubinsky played bad?

3) Dubois > Wennberg --- Dubois > > Pulijujarvi --- Dubois is the absolute REAL DEAL. Quite easily our best center, (we've ever had?) though I do like Foligno at C also. The Panarin-Dubois-Atkinson line individually, and as a whole, are all GREAT. Despite what some believe, Panarin and Atkinson have developed some legit chemistry, and their games seem to mesh very well. After watching Dubois the entire year I think I've seen "enough" of Jesse Puljajarvi to make the claim that he will NEVER be as good as PLD. The only thing JP has going for him is youth, but so does PLD. And PLD seems to currently be superior in literally every way. JP is probably 1 of the most awkward "looking"/skating players I can remember at the NHL level. But he doesn't just look bad skating, he IS a bad skater. He also seems to be VERY weak at puck control and passing. Looks to lack "intensity" and also doesn't seem to have very good "hockey IQ" either.

It seems that PLD's "growth" would have to stop now for JP to ever have a chance at being as good as an NHL player.

Fire Jarmo

 

[Monk]

When it comes to scouting in Europe, Jarmo be there.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Things I wanna add a little late:

1) As good/great as Jenner and HIS line have been recently, it is a perfect example of a line "meshing" and playing well along with them getting favorable offensive usage. It should be no surprise that former "Redundanteer" Jenner's offensive production has seen a huge bump while playing with 2 skilled and offensive minded players. They also have been getting favorable matchups and many offensive draws. Not taking anything away from them just want to bring attention to the often "ignored" USAGE of players and/or a line.

2) Can anybody say that "2nd line C" Dubinsky played bad?

3) Dubois > Wennberg --- Dubois > > Pulijujarvi --- Dubois is the absolute REAL DEAL. Quite easily our best center, (we've ever had?) though I do like Foligno at C also. The Panarin-Dubois-Atkinson line individually, and as a whole, are all GREAT. Despite what some believe, Panarin and Atkinson have developed some legit chemistry, and their games seem to mesh very well. After watching Dubois the entire year I think I've seen "enough" of Jesse Puljajarvi to make the claim that he will NEVER be as good as PLD. The only thing JP has going for him is youth, but so does PLD. And PLD seems to currently be superior in literally every way. JP is probably 1 of the most awkward "looking"/skating players I can remember at the NHL level. But he doesn't just look bad skating, he IS a bad skater. He also seems to be VERY weak at puck control and passing. Looks to lack "intensity" and also doesn't seem to have very good "hockey IQ" either.

It seems that PLD's "growth" would have to stop now for JP to ever have a chance at being as good as an NHL player.

Fire Jarmo

Lmao, wait seriously? He barely played. Can anybody say that he played well? In a blowout game he had as much playing time as Markus Hannikainen. Congrats.

 

[thebus88]

Lmao, wait seriously? He barely played. Can anybody say that he played well? In a blowout game he had as much playing time as Markus Hannikainen. Congrats.

Congrats...?

And I didn't even say he played "good". My question, that you seemed to "ignore", was if anybody could say he was "bad". Nobody can, because he wasn't. That's my point.

And you say, "he barely played". The least you could have done was look up the TOI numbers. He didn't play 8-9-10 minutes. Dubinsky's (nearly) 13 minutes of even strength time was more than any forward other than the "big 3".

In regards to the "blowout" comment, I must add that you must have been sooooo excited to come on here when it was 0-3, I'm sorry things didn't work out for you.

But, continue with the false narratives and looking up games in hand.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Congrats...?

And I didn't even say he played "good". My question, that you seemed to "ignore", was if anybody could say he was "bad". Nobody can, because he wasn't. That's my point.

And you say, "he barely played". The least you could have done was look up the TOI numbers. He didn't play 8-9-10 minutes. Dubinsky's (nearly) 13 minutes of even strength time was more than any forward other than the "big 3".

In regards to the "blowout" comment, I must add that you must have been sooooo excited to come on here when it was 0-3, I'm sorry things didn't work out for you.

But, continue with the false narratives and looking up games in hand.

So, if he didn't play good, and didn't play bad, in a season where he hasn't played well at all by everyones standards (even his own) except you., it's something to point out? Because he wasn't absolute shit? That's where the congrats comes from, since he's your boy and all.

He played more than Calvert, Hannikainen, Milano, and Jenner (by seconds). 7th of 12 forwards. Making what he makes is that an achievement? I know you're trying to cherrypick TOI by saying :even strength" as if penalties didn't happen for either team that game, but I'm not going to let you. If this is your way of finally acknowledging his shit year and his regression to a bottom line forward, then I can accept it.

I actually did not post until after the game. Check it yourself. So your 3-0 comment holds no merit. Which isn't unusual for you.

No false narratives here. And as for GIH Florida burned one of those last night, so they only have 2 in hand now.