Post-Game Talk: fun game

[Heaton]

Why? They have so many holes it'd make swiss cheese blush. They have a long ways to go before they are a true contender. Wings had over 40 shots on them tonight... now that's pathetic.

And barely any of them were dangerous. The Wings are no where close to the Leafs in any aspect.

 

[Flowah]

The horror of having good players that will deserve pay raises.

Glad we don't have that problem.

Yes I much prefer our situation of no window at all.

 

[Heaton]

Yes I much prefer our situation of no window at all.

I like how the Leafs are literally just now getting into the conversation and people are talking about their window 'closing' when their best players are teenagers.

 

[HIFE]

I like how the Leafs are literally just now getting into the conversation and people are talking about their window 'closing' when their best players are teenagers.

To be honest "people" is roughly one whole person who also said we would pass Boston on the road to the playoffs.

To think in 10 years Matthews will be 29. Last night was perfect when Matt/Mar/Nylander scored to give the Leafs a lead- it really said something about the force of elite talent. Toronto were genius to tank for Matthews. Detroit is clueless they would never do what it takes to get a franchise altering guy like that.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I remember there being talk here about how Babcock would be fired. He has them second in the division with the ROW tiebreaker and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they finish ahead of Ottawa. They are +12 goal differential and have 14 more ROW than Detroit. If they can sign Shattenkirk this summer they are a very dangerous team.

Boston has a tough road their last 4 games. The Lightning are within striking distance, that game on Tuesday could be huge.

 

[Flowah]

To be honest "people" is roughly one whole person who also said we would pass Boston on the road to the playoffs.

To think in 10 years Matthews will be 29. Last night was perfect when Matt/Mar/Nylander scored to give the Leafs a lead- it really said something about the force of elite talent. Toronto were genius to tank for Matthews. Detroit is clueless they would never do what it takes to get a franchise altering guy like that.

There's definitely more than 1 person who is always pushing back on the Leafs being relevant and a team to be contended with for the foreseeable future.

 

[Dotter]

There's definitely more than 1 person who is always pushing back on the Leafs being relevant and a team to be contended with for the foreseeable future.

It's probably because they could easily whiff on making the playoffs while having the highest paid NHL coach in world history. Not to mention, they are a mess defensively. They gave up 42 shots against the Wings.

I think that's a record for SOG for the 17 Wings. Sure they might be good some day, but they could also fail to put it all together.

I think if teams start purposely tanking like the Shannahplan, then NHL should change the rules to help prevent that (for example have RFA players go straight to UFA at 22yrs old if they play more than 25 games in the NHL so the McDavid's of the world can get 9 million 7 year contracts @ 22). And stop it just like the NHL did with front loaded cap circumvention contracts. It's an exploit in the system. Also coaches salary should be used against the cap hit.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

It's probably because they could easily whiff on making the playoffs while having the highest paid NHL coach in world history. Not to mention, they are a mess defensively. They gave up 42 shots against the Wings.

I think that's a record for SOG for the 17 Wings. Sure they might be good some day, but they could also fail to put it all together.

I think if teams start purposely tanking like the Shannahplan, then NHL should change the rules to help prevent that (for example have RFA players go straight to UFA at 22yrs old if they play more than 25 games in the NHL so the McDavid's of the world can get 9 million 7 year contracts @ 22). And stop it just like the NHL did with front loaded cap circumvention contracts. It's an exploit in the system. Also coaches salary should be used against the cap hit.

What does it matter what the coach is paid? Do coaches salaries count against the cap in any major pro sport? (seriously asking, I don't follow any sports closely other than hockey these days)

Yes! the Wings out-Corsied the Leafs! Nevermind that Toronto won every game against us this season.

And every team could fail to put it all together so I'm not sure how that's a criticism of the Leafs.

If the players are intentionally losing games, then there's a tanking problem. If management is selling off assets to acquire picks, get rid of bad contracts, and trying to turn around the franchise, that's called rebuilding.

There wasn't this "tanking" obsession here until McDavid and then the Leafs rebuild.

 

[Dotter]

What does it matter what the coach is paid? Do coaches salaries count against the cap in any major pro sport? (seriously asking, I don't follow any sports closely other than hockey these days)

Yes! the Wings out-Corsied the Leafs! Nevermind that Toronto won every game against us this season.

And every team could fail to put it all together so I'm not sure how that's a criticism of the Leafs.

If the players are intentionally losing games, then there's a tanking problem. If management is selling off assets to acquire picks, get rid of bad contracts, and trying to turn around the franchise, that's called rebuilding.

There wasn't this "tanking" obsession here until McDavid and then the Leafs rebuild.

Bettman created the salary cap to "spread the wealth". Give other teams a chance. McDavid's and Croby's only come around once every 10 years. Elite talent every few years. If Bettman wanted to continue on "spreading the wealth", they could change the tanking rules by giving young players better contract options at younger ages. It would also increase trades and would increase offer sheets. It also gives teams that tank for picks smaller windows, while giving "rebuild on the fly" teams more available options.

As we learned from cap circumvention contracts, the NHL didn't like GMs exploiting that. It seems it is now becoming the "cool" thing to purposely tank for picks. Which is another way to exploit the system. While teams with several elite young talent gets to hoard those players too long under the entry-level contracts. The entry-level contracts should be revised to help "share the wealth". It'll also make GMs be forced to be more strategic.

It is my opinion that NHL has a huge problem and needs to be remedied.

 

[Red Stanley]

The game was an entertaining clown fiesta.

 

[Flowah]

It's probably because they could easily whiff on making the playoffs while having the highest paid NHL coach in world history. Not to mention, they are a mess defensively. They gave up 42 shots against the Wings.

1. They might miss this season, but they're only going to get better. A lot of their talent is fresh rookies. They're under the tutelage of one of the best coaches in the league. They're going to get better. Unlike our players who are mostly 5-7 or more years older. They're as good as they're going to be for the most part.

2. Mess defensively? Because they lapsed in a single game? Statistically they're middle of the league in terms of possession. Even the Wings 2008 team had bad games.

It seems it is now becoming the "cool" thing to purposely tank for picks. Which is another way to exploit the system.

But you keep saying how tanking is no guarantee! How much of an "exploit" can it be if you have to legitimately finish bottom 5 in the league for years and years to get an elite player who isn't even a guarantee?

That's not an exploit at all.

McDavid's and Croby's only come around once every 10 years. Elite talent every few years.

Not a Crosby or a McDavid, but you don't need them to win the Cup. The Hawks have won 3 without em. The Kings won 2 without em. The Bruins won without em. You don't need generational talent to win the cup, you just need elite talent. Kane, Keith, Doughty, Kopitar are all elite players.

And there's elite talent pretty much every single draft. Looking at just 1OA picks shows that. Let's look at the years from the start of the cap era. 12 drafts, Crosby, Kane, Stamkos, Tavares, Hall, Ekblad, Matthews, McDavid. 66.67% of the drafts had elite players 1OA, a couple had generational talents. And it gets even deeper if you look top10.

Jonathan Toews, Phil Kessel, Nick Backstrom, Carey Price, Doughty, Hedman, Kane, OEL, Seguin, Lindholm, Drouin, Eichel. I'm not even gonna count guys like Nylander and Marner and Hanifin because who knows, they've only been around a couple years.

There is top end, elite talent in the top10 almost every single draft year. Players you can draft around and win with.

 

[jkutswings]

It's probably because they could easily whiff on making the playoffs while having the highest paid NHL coach in world history. Not to mention, they are a mess defensively. They gave up 42 shots against the Wings.

I think that's a record for SOG for the 17 Wings. Sure they might be good some day, but they could also fail to put it all together.

So if I dig through the box scores, and find a game where a Chicago or a Pittsburgh gave up 40+ shots in a loss, that means their model is a failure too? Yes, Toronto needs significant help on defense, but you're being way too over the top, based on one (relatively meaningless) regular season game.

Besides, if some fans like to point or that honest rebuilds take several years - and, thus far, the majority of Shanahan's decisions have been good - then why is the default assumption that he will suddenly fail miserably at acquiring the other pieces he needs to keep improving the roster?

I think if teams start purposely tanking like the Shannahplan, then NHL should change the rules to help prevent that (for example have RFA players go straight to UFA at 22yrs old if they play more than 25 games in the NHL so the McDavid's of the world can get 9 million 7 year contracts @ 22). And stop it just like the NHL did with front loaded cap circumvention contracts. It's an exploit in the system. Also coaches salary should be used against the cap hit.

And I think that you're complaining about the system because Detroit is officially on the lousy end of the spectrum.

Bettman and Company don't care if everybody is eventually good. The salary cap, revenue sharing, and every other change they make is focused on one thing: increasing revenue. If 50 championships in a row for one team somehow was better for their bottom line, and the majority of owners were on board, they'd be just fine with it.

If, after a reasonable amount of time to analyze the data, the NHL concludes that the current setup could be tweaked to make them more money, then they will. But they only care about the players, let alone the fans, to the extent that buckets of money keep rolling in.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Bettman created the salary cap to "spread the wealth". Give other teams a chance. McDavid's and Croby's only come around once every 10 years. Elite talent every few years. If Bettman wanted to continue on "spreading the wealth", they could change the tanking rules by giving young players better contract options at younger ages. It would also increase trades and would increase offer sheets. It also gives teams that tank for picks smaller windows, while giving "rebuild on the fly" teams more available options.

As we learned from cap circumvention contracts, the NHL didn't like GMs exploiting that. It seems it is now becoming the "cool" thing to purposely tank for picks. Which is another way to exploit the system. While teams with several elite young talent gets to hoard those players too long under the entry-level contracts. The entry-level contracts should be revised to help "share the wealth". It'll also make GMs be forced to be more strategic.

It is my opinion that NHL has a huge problem and needs to be remedied.

I agree that Crosby's and McDavid's don't come around very often. Crosby turned the Pens financial situation around, McDavid is getting a long suffering Oilers team into the playoffs, and Matthews and the Leaf's rebuild is making the most popular franchise relevant again.

Why exactly would Bettman want to change things?

The cool thing?

The Leafs were a laughing stock because of all of their bad contracts, inept attempts at putting together a competitive team, then they start implementing the depth of a rebuild they've needed for years and now they're "tanking cuz it's cool?"

Like I said, if the players are throwing games then it's a problem. But GMs should be able to shed bad contracts and acquire assets.

 

[Syckle78]

Why? They have so many holes it'd make swiss cheese blush. They have a long ways to go before they are a true contender. Wings had over 40 shots on them tonight... now that's pathetic.

And the wings had I believe 25 shots on them the game before. Talk about pathetic,eh? Always a good idea to make proclamations on a one game sample size.

 

[Dotter]

So if I dig through the box scores, and find a game where a Chicago or a Pittsburgh gave up 40+ shots in a loss, that means their model is a failure too? Yes, Toronto needs significant help on defense, but you're being way too over the top, based on one (relatively meaningless) regular season game.

Besides, if some fans like to point or that honest rebuilds take several years - and, thus far, the majority of Shanahan's decisions have been good - then why is the default assumption that he will suddenly fail miserably at acquiring the other pieces he needs to keep improving the roster?



And I think that you're complaining about the system because Detroit is officially on the lousy end of the spectrum.

Bettman and Company don't care if everybody is eventually good. The salary cap, revenue sharing, and every other change they make is focused on one thing: increasing revenue. If 50 championships in a row for one team somehow was better for their bottom line, and the majority of owners were on board, they'd be just fine with it.

If, after a reasonable amount of time to analyze the data, the NHL concludes that the current setup could be tweaked to make them more money, then they will. But they only care about the players, let alone the fans, to the extent that buckets of money keep rolling in.

So you're saying NHL is a business? Mhmm sounds like a reason why Ilitches wouldn't want to tank and kill a 22+ year streak, doesn't it? Maybe like Bettman and the NHL, they found more value in the streak than a 5 to 10+ year tank. Do you agree?

Like I said, if the players are throwing games then it's a problem. But GMs should be able to shed bad contracts and acquire assets.

Mrazek has been throwing games since the start of the season.

 

[LeighDx59]

Tampa isn't/wasn't a rival. They still aren't really. And likely never will be. There likely won't be any rivalries that can happen like Detroit/Colorado. Most rivalries and future ones are probably only geographic/actual rivalries now. Don't expect Detroit to be rivals with Carolina. Only division opponents besides Florida. And cbj

I would say out of all the Eastern Conference teams, aside from Pittsburgh, Tampa would be our rival. The two Playoff series has created plenty of bad blood for alot of fans and players and every game we play against them gets chippy. It wasnt like that at first but it is now.

 

[Flowah]

So you're saying NHL is a business? Mhmm sounds like a reason why Ilitches wouldn't want to tank and kill a 22+ year streak, doesn't it? Maybe like Bettman and the NHL, they found more value in the streak than a 5 to 10+ year tank. Do you agree?

Sounds like you're saying the Wings are not implementing the best plan to compete for the Cup in hopes of extending the streak and making money.

Do you agree?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

So you're saying NHL is a business? Mhmm sounds like a reason why Ilitches wouldn't want to tank and kill a 22+ year streak, doesn't it? Maybe like Bettman and the NHL, they found more value in the streak than a 5 to 10+ year tank. Do you agree?



Mrazek has been throwing games since the start of the season.

Man I hope that's true because then he could flip the switch back on and look like a franchise goaltender again.

 

[obey86]

And the wings had I believe 25 shots on them the game before. Talk about pathetic,eh? Always a good idea to make proclamations on a one game sample size.

The Leafs give up the 3rd most shots per game in the NHL and are also bottom 10 in goals against per game. Hardly a one game sample size.

 

[Flowah]

The Leafs give up the 3rd most shots per game in the NHL and are also bottom 10 in goals against per game. Hardly a one game sample size.

Yeah their defense still needs some work.

That said, possession wise they're average.

 

[aar000n]

So you're saying NHL is a business? Mhmm sounds like a reason why Ilitches wouldn't want to tank and kill a 22+ year streak, doesn't it? Maybe like Bettman and the NHL, they found more value in the streak than a 5 to 10+ year tank. Do you agree?



Mrazek has been throwing games since the start of the season.

Seems like it we can only hope he is not as bad as he looked this year.

 

[jkutswings]

So you're saying NHL is a business? Mhmm sounds like a reason why Ilitches wouldn't want to tank and kill a 22+ year streak, doesn't it? Maybe like Bettman and the NHL, they found more value in the streak than a 5 to 10+ year tank. Do you agree?

Of course they wouldn't want to exchange a playoff streak for being horrendous. But stop dodging the issue:

3-5 years ago, this front office had options to attempt to both maintain the streak AND improve long-term. Instead, they clung to short-term results with such extreme short-sightedness that here they are today, having hemmed themselves into a corner, and the only options left are to stay bad or rebuild.

Being mildly proactive in 2012/2013/2014 may have prevented this situation, possibly even with the streak still active.

 

[TatarTangle]

The Leafs give up the 3rd most shots per game in the NHL and are also bottom 10 in goals against per game. Hardly a one game sample size.

Should also he mentioned they are 8th in goal differential. There is more than one way to win a hockey game but giving up the 3rd most shots when it comes to playoff hockey is a dangerous game.

This is all semantics, anyone who wouldn't rather be in Toronto's shoes is high.

 

[Shaman464]

Bettman created the salary cap to "spread the wealth". Give other teams a chance. McDavid's and Croby's only come around once every 10 years. Elite talent every few years. If Bettman wanted to continue on "spreading the wealth", they could change the tanking rules by giving young players better contract options at younger ages. It would also increase trades and would increase offer sheets. It also gives teams that tank for picks smaller windows, while giving "rebuild on the fly" teams more available options.

As we learned from cap circumvention contracts, the NHL didn't like GMs exploiting that. It seems it is now becoming the "cool" thing to purposely tank for picks. Which is another way to exploit the system. While teams with several elite young talent gets to hoard those players too long under the entry-level contracts. The entry-level contracts should be revised to help "share the wealth". It'll also make GMs be forced to be more strategic.

It is my opinion that NHL has a huge problem and needs to be remedied.

You do realize it wasn't Bettman who wanted to spread the wealth, but the Board of Governors who wanted to gain a better position compared to the players as wages started to increase, right? The cap had literally nothing to do with competitive balance and had everything to do with changing how RFA/UFA worked in order to allow teams more years of player control and putting an objective limit on player salaries.

So, fat chance that they would do anything to reduce the length of RFA.

 

[Syckle78]

The Leafs give up the 3rd most shots per game in the NHL and are also bottom 10 in goals against per game. Hardly a one game sample size.

Well if he had said that it wouldn't be based on a one game sample size. So I'll stick with what I said.