While 99% of us despise Holland, and as much as it pains me to type, this is the the right answer.
News Article: Friedman says Detroit is "open for business"
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While 99% of us despise Holland, and as much as it pains me to type, this is the the right answer.
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
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Baile de Los Locos
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
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Why is everyone freaking out about the AA comment? The article clearly says "unless a...top-pair defenseman is PART OF THE DISCUSSION."
That, to me, clearly implies it wouldn't be a 1-for-1 deal but a trade with a handful of moving parts. And Holland isn't wrong to set that bar, either. Moving AA for anything less than a defenseman of that caliber is a pointless exercise.
Kind of on that note, I'm as much a Holland detractor as any, but we have no idea what kind of trade artist Kenny is in this situation. We've never, ever seen Holland in a seller's position.
That, to me, clearly implies it wouldn't be a 1-for-1 deal but a trade with a handful of moving parts. And Holland isn't wrong to set that bar, either. Moving AA for anything less than a defenseman of that caliber is a pointless exercise.
Kind of on that note, I'm as much a Holland detractor as any, but we have no idea what kind of trade artist Kenny is in this situation. We've never, ever seen Holland in a seller's position.
SoupNazi
Serenity now. Insanity later.
- Feb 6, 2010
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Exactly. People are going "LULZ HOLLAND SUX" here over nothing. Negotiations work with one side starting high and one starting low, and it makes no sense for Holland to ask for a 3rd or something for AA when he could potentially package him for more.
For all the things you can fault Holland for, asking for too much for a guy like AA isn't one of them.
The difference between aa and nyquist is aa actually uses his body and hits.
But I def would expect some sort of decline in,his offensive production. He started at a super high rate just like nyquist.
O aa also has elite speed.
SpookyTsuki
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- Dec 3, 2014
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He's still right. Trading green next year is probably better. Easier to trade. Possibly get more
SpookyTsuki
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There's a reason you're not a gm if you think trading AA for anything lower then a good/great dman is a good idea
Unless it's a good draft pick or you can most likely get an aa prospect + more. Trading him for just a first or just a second is bad
Unless it's a good draft pick or you can most likely get an aa prospect + more. Trading him for just a first or just a second is bad
Shaman464
No u
The team has so many wingers right now. Trading one would be a good idea. Nyquist, Tatar, Abdelkader, Helm, etc are all at low points value wise. So that leaves Mantha and AA. Of the two Mantha's skill set is much more desirable long term. Flip AA++ for a d-man.
Trading AA for a non-top pairing guy doesn't do much for us imo.
1. He's easily as good as a second round pick forward right now. Moreso considering he's not likely to bust even though almost half the forwards picked in the 2nd round end up playing fewer than 10 NHL games.
2. We have plenty of bottom 4 guys. DK, Green, Smith, Jensen, XO. These guys do not look that out of place in the middle pairing and definitely not for the bottom pairing. Getting another #3 or #4 doesn't change the team's future.
If AA gets a top pairing d-man or is part of a package that does, great. I'm good with that. I think anything less than that is a waste.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
That wouldn't be so bad. I saw it compared to the 1999 draft which is a scary thought.
I hate Smith and want him gone. But when it comes to AA he needs to set the price sky-high. Trading the guy at this point in time would be a major gamble, he is showing signs of true top-line potential. Even if he doesn't develop that way, he'll never be Nyquist. He's bigger, faster, better 1-on-1, more physical, better defensively. His problems are different than Nyquist's, and his limitations are fewer.
Mister Ed
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- Dec 21, 2008
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AA has more wheels than Nyquist and in today's game, that's money. Everyone is good until the other team's D finds out, then they need to keep modifying their game to push through. It's not like everyone's rookie season is their best.
I'd call myself one of the biggest AA hypers and I would *never* call him better defensively than Nyquist. AA seems super lost a lot of the time in the defensive zone. Hilariously, I think he could learn a lot from Tatar. I've been noticing Tats seems to know where to be in defensive zone coverage to prevent passes, shots, and break up plays. AA is very ineffectual in that respect.
Henkka
Registered User
Good point. Or at least it should be for 2018 picks.
I'm just fine if Holland will sell Vanek and Smith. Those assets will be lost anyways, and getting picks for them will add something possibilities for our future.
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
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Larkin has more wheels than Nyquist as well, but doesn't have a clue how to use them.
Most forwards that have significant holes in their game get figured out fairly quickly. I like AA, but expecting him to ever be a regular on the first line is a stretch. I'd happily package him for a young defensemen that was a solid #3, but had #2 potential.
Fingers crossed for Galchenyuk, Lindholm, Trouba, Forsberg, Ceci, Teravainen, but even a Matheson, Reilly, Severson or Dumba would provide some help.
And ultimately poor drafts are still about who you select. Hellebuyck at #130, Josh Anderson at #95, Frederik Andersen at #87, AA at #110, Slavin at #120 did well for the relevant teams, and picking well in middle rounds is a wings speciality.
I also get the impression that while elite talent will be thin on the ground this year, there is good depth for potential roster players, so good drafting could find a few of the kind of assets the wings are typically good at putting together. Although this isn't the aim, more skaters at middle 6 quality would at least render some current ones expendable in 2-3 years, and help the club retain a strong supporting cast for whatever new core emerges.
That said, I think we get a better pick in a better draft if Mike Green stays for another year.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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What about a guy that could become a top pairing guy in a few years?
Because quite frankly... saying you're only trading AA for an established top pairing defenseman is the same thing as saying you won't trade him.
I'd be very happy with a Galchenyuk or Lindholm level player. No offense, but citing later round guys is kind of besides the point. There are sleepers in every draft. Typcially a strong or weak draft is reliant on the players that are supposed to be good being good, AKA the top 10 guys.
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My biggest issue about this is the part about Smith....why is an extension even up for discussion?
I think what makes AA attractive to keep compared to say a smarter player like Nyquist as Shaman comments, is that his size, skating, hands and finishing mean he will always be a potential threat on the ice, in any game against any opposition. Obviously he needs to get smarter, stronger and better defensively, but his individualistic style, while probably limiting his ceiling, means he can also present that threat with a broad range of linemates.
My guess is that he tops out as a 40-50 point guy who's lack of vision frustrates but his raw toolset gives opposing d the willies a lot.
How old are they when they establish themselves as top pairing? What's the likelihood of them reaching that potential?
If they have a 50% chance and are under 25 when they do I take it. Otherwise I keep I think.
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Surely that was what was meant? Teams just don't trade young established top pairing guys unless forced to by circumstances beyond their control or in exchange for first line centers.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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My thought process was ideally the same likelihood and time frame as AA becoming a top line forward. Basically the defenseman equivalent to AA. Just kind of silly to say you want a top pairing defenseman for AA, when he's not a top line forward (at least yet).
I assume so, otherwise he's just saying he isn't trading AA. Or maybe he is just trying to set the bar high.
