Tennis: French Open 2022

[kihei]

Ruud over Rune in an entertaining four sets. Man, these guys don't like one another.

 

[MsMeow]

What is the story between Rune and Ruud?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think it’s very close between Nadal and Djokovic. The guy whose won more majors when their careers are over will have had the better career. I think that’ll probably end up being Djokovic. He can win on more surfaces and is more likely to be able to play at a high level for a number of more years.

I’m not already fan of any of the three, so my opinions on them are completely organically formed. Federer seems like a nice guy, but he also seems like wallpaper. I have no strong opinions about him. Nadal is the one of the three I don’t like. The grunting rubs me the wrong way. I think it’s disrespectful and a distraction. I also think his personality is slightly pretentious. Djokovic I wouldn’t say I’m a fan of, but I do respect his willingness to stand up for what he believes in. So many want him to conform and he remains true to his own beliefs.

 

[kihei]

Swiatek over Kasatkina: Because how could you possibly not pick Swiatek.

Gauff over Trevisaa: Because how could you possibly pick Trevisan

Plus, Gauff/Swiatek looks like a fun final (on paper anyway). Think how crazy the American media would get if somehow Gauff managed to win it.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Sure, if you remove Federer's prime years and only include prime Novak/Rafa then it'll look much better for them.

I think the whole debate would be a lot more interesting & easier to have if Federer's prime lined up with Novak/Rafa better. Roger in his prime from ~2003-2008 (13 slams) is a level that neither Nadal or Djokovic have managed to do, he really had an aura of invincibility. It would be like if every GS was Rafa at The French or Novak in Australia, any loss would be stunning.

One point I don't often see made (and one that I didn't consider until I read it) is Federer raising the bar of what great tennis is, allowing them to reach the level that we now know them for. But without him do we see them become as dominant? He got to the highest level of tennis all by himself, no little brother pestering him to constantly improve. You could argue if it was only Novak or only Rafa, then one of them would have 30 championships by now. But they sharpened each other and forced the other to get better and better.

I think when it's all said and done Novak will go down as the greatest, but Roger as the best. And I say this as a Rafa fan

My point was mostly just to demonstrate how Federer had less competition during his prime. Right when Nadal and Djokovic came along, he basically stopped winning slams.. and was still in his prime at 26-27 years old.

 

[Foppberg]

Medvedev vs Tsitsipas 2.0

 

[kihei]

Kasatkina opts to start points with a conservative game plan (high percentage first serves; not much pace; "plus one" down the middle) and after a couple of games to adjust, Swiatek cuts through that like a hot knife through warm butter, 2 and 1.

My point was mostly just to demonstrate how Federer had less competition during his prime. Right when Nadal and Djokovic came along, he basically stopped winning slams.. and was still in his prime at 26-27 years old.

Roger completely destroyed and utterly owned the two world #1s that came before him, Roddick (21-3) and Hewitt (17-4 over their last 21 matches). Not much precedent for that sort of thing in tennis history.

 

[Hadoop]

Definitely gonna have to side with Ruud on this one. Considering his opponent is the same guy who was hear yelling out homophobic slurs during a match last year, Rune has a lot of growing up to do in terms of professional conduct. The talent is undeniable though.

 

[kihei]

Never seen Trevisan play before. She is a 28-year-old career minor-leaguer who has never been past the second round in her previous seven Slam appearances.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Kasatkina opts to start points with a conservative game plan (high percentage first serves; not much pace; "plus one" down the middle) and after a couple of games to adjust, Swiatek cuts through that like a hot knife through warm butter, 2 and 1.


Roger completely destroyed and utterly owned the two world #1s that came before him, Roddick (21-3) and Hewitt (17-4 over their last 21 matches). Not much precedent for that sort of thing in tennis history.

Ah yes, Roddick and Hewitt, two undisputed top 5 players of all time….

You’re comparing apples to oranges. Djokovic won more majors last year as a 34 year old than Roddick and Hewitt have won in their whole careers.

Just because Federer has done something that hadn’t been done before doesn’t mean that it is more impactful than players reaching that same level (for a longer period of time) after he did.

 

[kihei]

Ah yes, Roddick and Hewitt, two undisputed top 5 players of all time….

You’re comparing apples to oranges. Djokovic won more majors last year as a 34 year old than Roddick and Hewitt have won in their whole careers.

Just because Federer has done something that hadn’t been done before doesn’t mean that it is more impactful than players reaching that same level (for a longer period of time) after he did.

This seems like tortured logic to me, a form of special pleading. Roddick was seen as an anomaly, but Hewitt looked like he was definitely going to be the next big thing in terms of skill and rankings. And as far as rankings go, Nadal didn't reach the same level as Federer for a longer time either.

 

[kihei]

Gauff knocks off Trevisan 3 and 1 in an error-filled match that lacked drama. There were a few good points but they were scattered around like the odd daffodil in several acres of weeds.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

This seems like tortured logic to me. Roddick was seen as an anomaly, but Hewitt looked like he was definitely going to be the next big thing. In terms of skill and rankings. And as far as rankings go, Nadal didn't reach the same level as Federer for a longer time either.

Nadal’s multiple injuries made it almost impossible for him to remain at the top of the rankings for the majority of the 2010s. He was a favorite every time he was healthy, though.

Nadal just has been a top player for longer. By the time he was 28, Federer’s play dropped a notch and was clearly 3rd fiddle to Nadal and Djokovic and has been ever since. Nadal and Djokovic are still the 2 best players in the world right now and they’re 35 y/o.

 

[kihei]

Nadal’s multiple injuries made it almost impossible for him to remain at the top of the rankings for the majority of the 2010s. He was a favorite every time he was healthy, though.

Nadal just has been a top player for longer. By the time he was 28, Federer’s play dropped a notch and was clearly 3rd fiddle to Nadal and Djokovic and has been ever since. Nadal and Djokovic are still the 2 best players in the world right now and they’re 35 y/o.

This just seems fanboyish. Let's let the historical record speak for itself without embellishment. During Roger's last week at #1, he was 36 years old, two months short of his 37th birthday. In the14 month period between September 2017 and October 2018, Roger was ranked #1 or #2 for that period, ending with a #2 ranking when he was 37 years old. Between 2015 in Basel and 2019 at Wimbledon in, to date, their final meeting, Federer faced Nadal eight times, including one walkover. His record against Nadal during this period was 6-1. As Casey Stengel used to say, ya could look it up.

 

[Foppberg]

Man Coco is exciting to watch. Can't wait to see her face off against Iga, she might even lose a set

 

[Nadal On Clay]

This just seems fanboyish. Let's let the historical record speak for itself without embellishment. During Roger's last week at #1, he was 36 years old, two months short of his 37th birthday. In the14 month period between September 2017 and October 2018, Roger was ranked #1 or #2 for that period, ending with a #2 ranking when he was 37 years old. Between 2015 in Basel and 2019 at Wimbledon in, to date, their final meeting, Federer faced Nadal eight times, including one walkover. His record against Nadal during this period was 6-1. As Casey Stengel used to say, ya could look it up.

Just because Federer had a better record head to head in your cherrypicked set of years doesn’t mean he wasn’t generally seen as the 3rd best behind Nadal and Djokovic in the 2010s. He had a sort of a renaissance-like year in 2017 where he won 2 slams, but other than that, not a lot of noteworthy accomplishments compared to Nadal and Djokovic post 2010.

Since you brought up the head to head matches, Nadal is 24-16 overall against Federer and 14-10 in the Finals against him.

 

[kihei]

Hey, you picked the mid-30+ age bracket to generalize, not me. Head to head merely underscores Rafa's dominance on clay which is exactly what one would expect.

 

[Foppberg]

I really wish Federer's parents waited 5 extra years. Couldn't just keep it in their pants so that we could get 3 prime GOATs...

 

[Nadal On Clay]

It’s mind-blowing how these 3 have dominated their sport like that for 2 decades now. The 3 best players ever all born in a 5 year span.

 

[kihei]

Rafa over Zverev: I just can't imagine Rafa losing a test of wills with Zverev.

Ruud over Cilic: Ruud has picked a fine time to peak and, try as I might, I just can't visualize Cilic the 2022 French Open final.

 

[Foppberg]

The fact that the Stanimal and Murray both have 3 GS in the middle of prime Nadal/Djoker speaks volumes too. Wawrinka's backhand might be one of my favorite shots to ever watch.

Also poor Thiem. He's had a hard go of things ever since that GS win.

 

[kihei]

The fact that the Stanimal and Murray both have 3 GS in the middle of prime Nadal/Djoker speaks volumes too. Wawrinka's backhand might be one of my favorite shots to ever watch.

Also poor Thiem. He's had a hard go of things ever since that GS win.

Wawrinka's backhand might be the best stroke I ever watched.

Later: which got me thinking, what would be the other nominees in the best stroke ever category:

Nole's return of serve
Rafa's forehand
Andre Agassi's return of serve
Fed's forehand
Tony Roche's backhand volley
Pancho Gonzalez' first serve
Stefan Edberg's kick serve

 

[Foppberg]

Wawrinka's backhand might be the best stroke I ever watched.

As a fellow OHBH player, I marvel at it. The power he generates is unreal.

 

[Tuggy]

If Zverev wins today, he'll jump Medvedev and be #2 in the live rankings.

And if he wins the tournament, he'll be the new world #1 on Monday.

 

[Foppberg]

Zverev with a good start, question is if he can keep it up.