Free Agency and Trade Thread: Off-season alive and well ... for some!

[4thline]

I've mentioned it before but it seems like a great opportunity to chase high priced low term players that some teams wouldn't mind removing from their payroll or cap space but are still efficient players to give us a boost and experience. There aren't many that fit the bill here though.

The Leafs have historically always spent to the cap. This might be an exception because of our situation but there will always be apart of me that will anticipate adding salary one way or another.

I see things similarly, was really hoping Chara would make it to UFA. It will be interesting to see if the Marleau deal was a one off for a hand picked player or a tacit endorsement of the principle that on a year to year basis cap space left unused (excepting injury and bonus allowance) is a squandered free opportunity to make the team better, retention/ self buyout without benefit.

My assumptions for the offseason
-firmly in the Nylander to C camp
-firmly in the Hyman to RW camp
-semi firmly in the Gardiner should be moved camp
-1st rounder and potentially Brown in play

Shopping list
1. Top 4 RD that can play second fiddle to Rielly on the top pair as a steadying defensive influence, most likely a vet on limited term, either handedness but has to have proven ability to play the right
2. 4-5-6 type young RHD with demonstrated NHL ability but has some upside yet (wild value swings)
3. Top 6 LW with good two way game, likely vet with limited term
4. Cheap C depth

Deals I like the idea of: (many are mutually exclusive

SJ- 1, 1+3 --> Braun for 25 --> Braun+ Boedker for 1st+Neilsen+82
Det- 1, --> Daley+ 33/36 for 25
Van- 1, --> Tanev for 1st+ Neilsen+?
LA 1, 1+3 --> Martinez and Reider, no idea of trade

NJ- 2, --> Gardiner for Severson
EDM-2--> Gardiner for Benning + 40+ Safin
FLA 2 --> Brown for Pysyk --> Leivo for Petrovic

STL 2+3 ---> Brown for Sobotka+ Schmaltz

UFA- 3,4--> Kovalchuk, Nash, Brodziak, Ryan, Letestu,Stajan,

 

[SprDaVE]

I see things similarly, was really hoping Chara would make it to UFA. It will be interesting to see if the Marleau deal was a one off for a hand picked player or a tacit endorsement of the principle that on a year to year basis cap space left unused (excepting injury and bonus allowance) is a squandered free opportunity to make the team better, retention/ self buyout without benefit.

My assumptions for the offseason
-firmly in the Nylander to C camp
-firmly in the Hyman to RW camp
-semi firmly in the Gardiner should be moved camp
-1st rounder and potentially Brown in play

Shopping list
1. Top 4 RD that can play second fiddle to Rielly on the top pair as a steadying defensive influence, most likely a vet on limited term, either handedness but has to have proven ability to play the right
2. 4-5-6 type young RHD with demonstrated NHL ability but has some upside yet (wild value swings)
3. Top 6 LW with good two way game, likely vet with limited term
4. Cheap C depth

Deals I like the idea of: (many are mutually exclusive

SJ- 1, 1+3 --> Braun for 25 --> Braun+ Boedker for 1st+Neilsen+82
Det- 1, --> Daley+ 33/36 for 25
Van- 1, --> Tanev for 1st+ Neilsen+?
LA 1, 1+3 --> Martinez and Reider, no idea of trade

NJ- 2, --> Gardiner for Severson
EDM-2--> Gardiner for Benning + 40+ Safin
FLA 2 --> Brown for Pysyk --> Leivo for Petrovic

STL 2+3 ---> Brown for Sobotka+ Schmaltz

UFA- 3,4--> Kovalchuk, Nash, Brodziak, Ryan, Letestu,Stajan,

I don't think we'll see Nylander center personally but I'd be more than fine if it happened. Putting Hyman back to his natural position would be beneficial since he seems to produce a lot more when he's on the right (I think someone had showed how better he was as a RW compared to LW).

Dubas is a massive fan of Gardiners effectiveness on the ice. The only reason I see Gardiner traded this summer is because of his contract situation and I'm not sure Dubas is a fan of letting go of high valued assets for nothing. I'm really not sure what to expect here but I'll be honest, the trades you put out for Gardiner in your mock are really not good enough to me. I really really like Dermott but I'm not sure he's ready to handle the minutes of Gardiner quite yet either.

A lot of our off-season moves will depend on Tavares because landing that kind of fish shifts your entire plan and probably allows you to shop a piece you wouldn't have if you didn't land him.

I have no idea what to expect.

 

[Menzinger]

I don't think we'll see Nylander center personally but I'd be more than fine if it happened. Putting Hyman back to his natural position would be beneficial since he seems to produce a lot more when he's on the right (I think someone had showed how better he was as a RW compared to LW).

Dubas is a massive fan of Gardiners effectiveness on the ice. The only reason I see Gardiner traded this summer is because of his contract situation and I'm not sure Dubas is a fan of letting go of high valued assets for nothing. I'm really not sure what to expect here but I'll be honest, the trades you put out for Gardiner in your mock are really not good enough to me. I really really like Dermott but I'm not sure he's ready to handle the minutes of Gardiner quite yet either.

A lot of our off-season moves will depend on Tavares because landing that kind of fish shifts your entire plan and probably allows you to shop a piece you wouldn't have if you didn't land him.

I have no idea what to expect.

With Gardiner I think Dubas will trade him this summer if he doesn’t want to sign him to a new contract, and if that doesn’t Halle we should expect the Leafs to offer him a new deal. I can’t see Dubas keeping a high valued free agent just to let him walk for nothing. No more “own rentals”.

 

[Menzinger]

I would imagine the cost to acquire Ekblad would be pretty high, no?

Yeah draft Pedegree would keep his trade price probably disproportionately high. I have interest in him but I’m not sure if he’ll ever be a top pairing guy moving forward.

 

[SprDaVE]

With Gardiner I think Dubas will trade him this summer if he doesn’t want to sign him to a new contract, and if that doesn’t Halle we should expect the Leafs to offer him a new deal. I can’t see Dubas keeping a high valued free agent just to let him walk for nothing. No more “own rentals”.

I sure hope so. If there's one thing I hope he blocked out from Lamoriello is the way he handled his assets.

 

[HC7]

If you're focused on point totals then I question whether you've seen the Leafs. They need a shot suppressor, a defensive dman. Points are an afterthought.

The best shot suppressors are usually offensive D-Men because they play in the offensive zone all game.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

The best shot suppressors are usually offensive D-Men because they play in the offensive zone all game.

Sure, that's true in many cases but, there will be times where you will be stuck in your own zone and who do you want back there, Gardiner paired with Zaitsev for example or Gardiner with a guy like Tanev. There's plenty of offense already on the Leafs blue line. Gardiner and Rielly will put up points as will Dermott eventually. This team needs balance.

 

[HC7]

Sure, that's true in many cases but, there will be times where you will be stuck in your own zone and who do you want back there, Gardiner paired with Zaitsev for example or Gardiner with a guy like Tanev. There's plenty of offense already on the Leafs blue line. Gardiner and Rielly will put up points as will Dermott eventually. This team needs balance.

It's easy to pick anyone over Zaitsev (offensive/defensive) because he played so bad this season. At the end of the day this team is built on speed, IQ and skill. We should be looking for D-Men with speed, IQ and skill, teach them how to defend at the NHL level like we did with Rielly and Dermott. We are currently doing that with 7 on the Marlies.

 

[Boutette]

I see things similarly, was really hoping Chara would make it to UFA. It will be interesting to see if the Marleau deal was a one off for a hand picked player or a tacit endorsement of the principle that on a year to year basis cap space left unused (excepting injury and bonus allowance) is a squandered free opportunity to make the team better, retention/ self buyout without benefit.

My assumptions for the offseason
-firmly in the Nylander to C camp
-firmly in the Hyman to RW camp
-semi firmly in the Gardiner should be moved camp
-1st rounder and potentially Brown in play

Shopping list
1. Top 4 RD that can play second fiddle to Rielly on the top pair as a steadying defensive influence, most likely a vet on limited term, either handedness but has to have proven ability to play the right
2. 4-5-6 type young RHD with demonstrated NHL ability but has some upside yet (wild value swings)
3. Top 6 LW with good two way game, likely vet with limited term
4. Cheap C depth

Deals I like the idea of: (many are mutually exclusive

SJ- 1, 1+3 --> Braun for 25 --> Braun+ Boedker for 1st+Neilsen+82
Det- 1, --> Daley+ 33/36 for 25
Van- 1, --> Tanev for 1st+ Neilsen+?
LA 1, 1+3 --> Martinez and Reider, no idea of trade

NJ- 2, --> Gardiner for Severson
EDM-2--> Gardiner for Benning + 40+ Safin
FLA 2 --> Brown for Pysyk --> Leivo for Petrovic

STL 2+3 ---> Brown for Sobotka+ Schmaltz

UFA- 3,4--> Kovalchuk, Nash, Brodziak, Ryan, Letestu,Stajan,

I would hope that Marleau and Hainsey are short term vets whose job it is to mentor our young players for the 2 years or so that they need it and will be avoided in future now that our rookies are entering their 3rd-4th years in the league. I'd prefer to see our extra cap used to continue adding to our prospect pool either with picks or prospects while taking the odd bad contract. This ensure a far longer period of the team in contention for the cup, a constant stream of young players to help manage our cap and help maintain our core for as long as possible. This would be a big break from Toronto tradition, but I think its the kind of thing that will do the team in good stead for the next decade or even two. Using old geezers as crutches didn't get us a cup before the Cap era, and its not going to get us a cup now. Time to get with the times.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It's easy to pick anyone over Zaitsev (offensive/defensive) because he played so bad this season. At the end of the day this team is built on speed, IQ and skill. We should be looking for D-Men with speed, IQ and skill, teach them how to defend at the NHL level like we did with Rielly and Dermott. We are currently doing that with 7 on the Marlies.

Well those three things are relative terms as well right? Dermott has speed, but he does not have Gardiner's speed. He's going to put up offense, but probably not as much as Gardiner. Do we need Gardiner level speed, or do we just get someone who is still relatively speedy (i.e. Dermott level) but who has high end IQ? I'm taking the latter. IQ>Speed (barring he has passable levels of speed and the team is not sorely lacking for speed, which will likely never happen for us).a

Liljegren is someone with a lot of those things, and we are lucky to get him, because you do not find packages like that outside of the top 10-15 picks very often. His defensive game needs refinement, but not extensive refinement, like for example someone like Merkley will probably require... And I am taking someone like Zaitsev over someone like Merkley any day of the week. Liljegren is probably someone you can rely upon in tough defensive situations, whereas Merkley is a pure offensive defenseman and unless he gets a huge attitude adjustment, he's always going to be a pure offensive defenseman.

I do not care how fast the NHL is getting, I would say pure offensive defensemen are becoming far more extinct than pure defensive defensemen (barring they are still good enough to skate). Defensemen are very important and teams are not going to waste spots on guys who can only perform in the most favourable situations (which, by the way, is usually why they have great possession numbers and are always in the offensive zone). That guy has to put up huge numbers for a defenseman or they are going to need to be able to play at least like Rielly does to be able to survive in the NHL.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yup. Same with Chris Mueller tbh.

Mueller has an extra year.

Greening should be in the NHL, but I doubt it will be here unfortunately. I would take him on as a depth forward next year if he's willing to take it.

 

[garce]

Mueller has an extra year.

Greening should be in the NHL, but I doubt it will be here unfortunately. I would take him on as a depth forward next year if he's willing to take it.

Actually think Greening could be a effective 4 th liner. Big, skates well. The 17 goal season, bad contract and unreasonable expectations in Ottawa skewed his value. Certainly could hang around as 13th forward.

 

[Boutette]

Actually think Greening could be a effective 4 th liner. Big, skates well. The 17 goal season, bad contract and unreasonable expectations in Ottawa skewed his value. Certainly could hang around as 13th forward.

Better him than Martin, certainly.

 

[crump]

People forget that it takes skill to play defensively as well. High end skilled plays that work in junior don’t always translate to the nhl, but the skill to make those plays can be effective at the next level when channeled properly.

 

[meefer]

I see things similarly, was really hoping Chara would make it to UFA. It will be interesting to see if the Marleau deal was a one off for a hand picked player or a tacit endorsement of the principle that on a year to year basis cap space left unused (excepting injury and bonus allowance) is a squandered free opportunity to make the team better, retention/ self buyout without benefit.

My assumptions for the offseason
-firmly in the Nylander to C camp
-firmly in the Hyman to RW camp
-semi firmly in the Gardiner should be moved camp
-1st rounder and potentially Brown in play

Shopping list
1. Top 4 RD that can play second fiddle to Rielly on the top pair as a steadying defensive influence, most likely a vet on limited term, either handedness but has to have proven ability to play the right
2. 4-5-6 type young RHD with demonstrated NHL ability but has some upside yet (wild value swings)
3. Top 6 LW with good two way game, likely vet with limited term
4. Cheap C depth

Deals I like the idea of: (many are mutually exclusive

SJ- 1, 1+3 --> Braun for 25 --> Braun+ Boedker for 1st+Neilsen+82
Det- 1, --> Daley+ 33/36 for 25
Van- 1, --> Tanev for 1st+ Neilsen+?
LA 1, 1+3 --> Martinez and Reider, no idea of trade

NJ- 2, --> Gardiner for Severson
EDM-2--> Gardiner for Benning + 40+ Safin
FLA 2 --> Brown for Pysyk --> Leivo for Petrovic

STL 2+3 ---> Brown for Sobotka+ Schmaltz

UFA- 3,4--> Kovalchuk, Nash, Brodziak, Ryan, Letestu,Stajan,

Agree with your assumptions and Shopping list.
Deals: I'd like to keep the first, I think one more solid piece for the core is ideal, whether he can be found at #25 is debatable. I like the idea of Braun, Martinez and Severson...at what cost? I'd hate to lose Brown, but... Kovalchuk, no. Letestu, Stajan, yes, but perhaps too expensive.
Nice work.

 

[meefer]

Well those three things are relative terms as well right? Dermott has speed, but he does not have Gardiner's speed. He's going to put up offense, but probably not as much as Gardiner. Do we need Gardiner level speed, or do we just get someone who is still relatively speedy (i.e. Dermott level) but who has high end IQ? I'm taking the latter. IQ>Speed (barring he has passable levels of speed and the team is not sorely lacking for speed, which will likely never happen for us).a

Liljegren is someone with a lot of those things, and we are lucky to get him, because you do not find packages like that outside of the top 10-15 picks very often. His defensive game needs refinement, but not extensive refinement, like for example someone like Merkley will probably require... And I am taking someone like Zaitsev over someone like Merkley any day of the week. Liljegren is probably someone you can rely upon in tough defensive situations, whereas Merkley is a pure offensive defenseman and unless he gets a huge attitude adjustment, he's always going to be a pure offensive defenseman.

I do not care how fast the NHL is getting, I would say pure offensive defensemen are becoming far more extinct than pure defensive defensemen (barring they are still good enough to skate). Defensemen are very important and teams are not going to waste spots on guys who can only perform in the most favourable situations (which, by the way, is usually why they have great possession numbers and are always in the offensive zone). That guy has to put up huge numbers for a defenseman or they are going to need to be able to play at least like Rielly does to be able to survive in the NHL.

Liljegren could be our ace in the hole. I like what I've read here about his development and what little I've seen on Utube looks very promising. One thing I really appreciate about this new organization is how they are allowing young players a chance to develop in the A, garner skills and confidence and then transition to the NHL with a much higher degree of success than what we saw in the past. This should be a fun year watching how Timothy improves with the Marlies.

 

[Leaffan1991]

Since Ottawa is so desperate to trade Bobby Ryan:

Toronto
Bobby Ryan 1 million retained
4th overall

Ottawa
Brown
2nd round pick

Toronto
11 th overall
12th overall

New York islanders
4th overall

Toronto
10th overall

Edmonton
Gardiner

Toronto ends up with 10,11,12

Pick: Bouchard, Dobson, Veleno, Smith between those four most likely.
Two good d and one Center

This is not going to happen but it would work if they tried

 

[Liminality]

Putting Hyman back to his natural position would be beneficial since he seems to produce a lot more when he's on the right (I think someone had showed how better he was as a RW compared to LW).

Is there enough data to really show one over the other? I don't know how many games he was used at RW. I think Hyman should be put on the wing side where our depth is weaker. For LW we got Marleau, Johnsson, Grundstrom, Leivo, Martin. For RW we got Marner, Brown, Kapanen, someone to fill up the 4th spot maybe Aaltonen. (Also assuming that Nylander transitions to C) I don't want Brown stuck on the 4th line again. To me, we're a bit weaker on the left side near the top of the lineup. I think Hyman stays there for now especially if Nylander doesn't convert to C next season.

The versatility of Hyman is going to be useful in the future to fill our the winger gaps.

Since Ottawa is so desperate to trade Bobby Ryan:

Bobby Ryan would really pigeon hole us with his cap hit over the next 4 years. I'm all for grabbing a cap dump that expires next year to grab assets but Ryan would stop us from grabbing anyone else to help our roster after the big 3 get signed imo.

 

[IWD]

I don't think that the defense is that far off, to be honest.

Gardiner+Brown is a good starting point for a RHD of similar calibre to Gardiner.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I'd be interested in Ekblad as well. Tallon is terrible as far as evaluating talent, Ekblad has "struggled" and is well worth the risk IMO.

Yeah draft Pedegree would keep his trade price probably disproportionately high. I have interest in him but I’m not sure if he’ll ever be a top pairing guy moving forward.

Ekblad is listed as a top pairing defender in many of the per usual depth chart sources. I watched a fair number of Panther games last year and he seemed to play pretty well paired with Yandle as their top pair. The talking heads seemed to speak quite positively about his performance last year, along with various other indicators. I wonder if our comments aren't quite current and based on older info?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I don't think that the defense is that far off, to be honest.

Gardiner+Brown is a good starting point for a RHD of similar calibre to Gardiner.

Gardiner is a good enough starting point for a RHD of similar caliber to Gardiner. If we are including Brown, we are getting someone much better than Gardiner.

Being a RHD does not provide that much extra value.

 

[IWD]

Gardiner is a good enough starting point for a RHD of similar caliber to Gardiner. If we are including Brown, we are getting someone much better than Gardiner.

Being a RHD does not provide that much extra value.

In terms of supply and demand, it's much more difficult to find a RHD. Who do you consider much better than Gardiner in that Brown would be the difference maker?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Gardiner is a good enough starting point for a RHD of similar caliber to Gardiner. If we are including Brown, we are getting someone much better than Gardiner.

Being a RHD does not provide that much extra value.

In terms of supply and demand, it's much more difficult to find a RHD. Who do you consider much better than Gardiner in that Brown would be the difference maker?

Both of the posts above have some merit and truth. But, I do think we don't give nearly as much credence to supply and demand as we should. I have asked at different times if its as easy to land these good RHD as some seem to think (based on their trade proposals), then why haven't we done this already? Was Lou just not good at his job? Not sure why we haven't had success up to this point and what the other reasons would be other than the two mentioned here .....

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Ekblad is listed as a top pairing defender in many of the per usual depth chart sources. I watched a fair number of Panther games last year and he seemed to play pretty well paired with Yandle as their top pair. The talking heads seemed to speak quite positively about his performance last year, along with various other indicators. I wonder if our comments aren't quite current and based on older info?

You may be right. Last I checked he had a lot of people questioning whether he'd ever return to form. The concussions really seemed to set him back.

 

[Menzinger]

With the Flames needing/wanting a young RW, one would hope perhaps a swap could be made involving one of Kapanen/Brown/Bracco for Rasmus Andersson who reminds me a bit of a Dermott level player.