Free Agency and Trade Thread: Off-season alive and well ... for some!

[SeaOfBlue]

With the Flames needing/wanting a young RW, one would hope perhaps a swap could be made involving one of Kapanen/Brown/Bracco for Rasmus Andersson who reminds me a bit of a Dermott level player.

Already talked about; he's definitely not getting Brown. Would probably not give up Kapanen either. We are not going to give up guys who are either proven, or practically proven, in the NHL and are around the same age for an unproven defenseman. That guy would at least have to be a slam dunk, and I do not see Andersson as that.

I would consider Bracco, but this guy is way behind Dermott in terms of development. Dermott has shown he can more than handle the NHL level at the same age and be a top AHL defenseman, Andersson has shown he can be a strong AHL defenseman but it has not converted yet. At this point, he could simply become another Pokka and bust. Pokka looked the same and people said much of the same thing about him at this age. We are still talking about a prospect here, and one who at best becomes a 2nd pairing RD. We already have options like that.

I do not think we need Andersson. Holl, LoVerde and Liljegren are entrenched as RD on the Marlies right now, and he's not ready for the NHL. The Leafs could use some additional depth on defense in the pool, but I think that comes through the draft.

 

[Boutette]

Already talked about; he's definitely not getting Brown. Would probably not give up Kapanen either. We are not going to give up guys who are either proven, or practically proven, in the NHL and are around the same age for an unproven defenseman. That guy would at least have to be a slam dunk, and I do not see Andersson as that.

I would consider Bracco, but this guy is way behind Dermott in terms of development. Dermott has shown he can more than handle the NHL level at the same age and be a top AHL defenseman, Andersson has shown he can be a strong AHL defenseman but it has not converted yet. At this point, he could simply become another Pokka and bust. Pokka looked the same and people said much of the same thing about him at this age. We are still talking about a prospect here, and one who at best becomes a 2nd pairing RD. We already have options like that.

I do not think we need Andersson. Holl, LoVerde and Liljegren are entrenched as RD on the Marlies right now, and he's not ready for the NHL. The Leafs could use some additional depth on defense in the pool, but I think that comes through the draft.

They can have Moore and Timoshov. Both improved their game this year and are having solid playoffs, but are unlikely to ever play for the Leafs. On the wing, Bracco will likely be a breakout player next year, along with Brooks who made a leap in performance when playing on the wing with Smith and Mueller and has scored some clutch goals in the playoffs. Players like M&T will get squeezed out and are prime to be moved since we have a glut of winger prospects approaching the AAAA level but few RD at the moment (liljegren being the only standout with a top #2 potential). As useful as they are, Holl and LoVerde are AHL vets who are not likely part of the Leafs future plans so are expendable.

 

[Menzinger]

Already talked about; he's definitely not getting Brown. Would probably not give up Kapanen either. We are not going to give up guys who are either proven, or practically proven, in the NHL and are around the same age for an unproven defenseman. That guy would at least have to be a slam dunk, and I do not see Andersson as that.

I would consider Bracco, but this guy is way behind Dermott in terms of development. Dermott has shown he can more than handle the NHL level at the same age and be a top AHL defenseman, Andersson has shown he can be a strong AHL defenseman but it has not converted yet. At this point, he could simply become another Pokka and bust. Pokka looked the same and people said much of the same thing about him at this age. We are still talking about a prospect here, and one who at best becomes a 2nd pairing RD. We already have options like that.

I do not think we need Andersson. Holl, LoVerde and Liljegren are entrenched as RD on the Marlies right now, and he's not ready for the NHL. The Leafs could use some additional depth on defense in the pool, but I think that comes through the draft.

I’m high on all three Leafs guys that I mentioned, but I’m not as confident about the leafs RHD prospect depth - ie don’t think Holl/LoVerde will became impact NHLers.

And while Andersson is still a question mark, his underlying numbers look strong. And buying an AHL prospect is going to be a lot more reasonable in terms of cost than an established top 4 NHL D man.

At the moment I think it’s a gamble worth taking

 

[Kiwi]

I’m high on all three Leafs guys that I mentioned, but I’m not as confident about the leafs RHD prospect depth - ie don’t think Holl/LoVerde will became impact NHLers.

And while Andersson is still a quesrion mark, his underlying numbers look strong. And buying an AHL prospect is going to be a lot more reasonable in terms of cost than an established top 4 NHL D man.

At the moment I think it’s a gamble worth taking

I'd happily trade any Marlie playing on the wing for him

I'd easily do Brown 1 v 1

I'm 50/50 on a Johnsson/Kapanen swap 1 v 1

Besides Liljegren I don't think that much of any of the Marlies RD and I see Holl as a 6/7

 

[Menzinger]

I'd happily trade any Marlie playing on the wing for him

I'd easily do Brown 1 v 1

I'm 50/50 on a Johnsson/Kapanen swap 1 v 1

Besides Liljegren I don't think that much of any of the Marlies RD and I see Holl as a 6/7

Yeah Holl could be a solidndeoth guy, but he’s not making the top 4 on a good team

 

[Kiwi]

Yeah Holl could be a solidndeoth guy, but he’s not making the top 4 on a good team

If he's your #6/7 I think your OK, above that you've got some issues

I'm definitely a fan of going through the depth of the teams with solid defenses and trying to pick up some younger guys that are being blocked that could be acquired on the cheap

 

[Stephen]

I'm interested in seeing what Justin Holl can do if the organization shows some interest level in developing him as a serious NHL player. We always see these dark horse nobodies like Justin Braun get drafted in the 7th round, finish college, have unremarkable AHL careers, have unremarkable NHL careers, and the somewhere down the line in their late 20s, they become quality NHL defensemen.

 

[cookie]

With the Flames needing/wanting a young RW, one would hope perhaps a swap could be made involving one of Kapanen/Brown/Bracco for Rasmus Andersson who reminds me a bit of a Dermott level player.

I don't think they'll be parting with Andersson but I wouldn't be too opposed to poaching one of their other highly touted defense prospects, namely Valimaki (as a longer term payoff among the lefties) and Fox. Brown and co from our end are not good enough of a return for Calgary.

 

[Rielly4]

Holl would be a great bottom pairing RD for us. He also is terrific on the PK which is something we need on the backend.

 

[Rielly4]

Marleau-Matthews-Marner
Grundstrom-Kadri-Hyman
Johnsson-Nylander-Kapanen
Marchment-Schaller-Brown

Gardiner-Rielly
Dermott-Zaitsev
Hainsey-Holl

Andersen
Sparks

I think with this amazing marlies run we should look to enhance internally instead of externally. The only guy i would add is Schaller as i dont think Aaltonen is the right fit, not strong or gritty enough.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I’m high on all three Leafs guys that I mentioned, but I’m not as confident about the leafs RHD prospect depth - ie don’t think Holl/LoVerde will became impact NHLers.

And while Andersson is still a question mark, his underlying numbers look strong. And buying an AHL prospect is going to be a lot more reasonable in terms of cost than an established top 4 NHL D man.

At the moment I think it’s a gamble worth taking

The issue is he's not going to be in the NHL next year, and we need help now. Also, if he's not in the NHL next year, then he's going up against LoVerde, Holl and Liljegren for playing time. Two of them may not be legit prospects, but they are going to be playing often on the Marlies just like they did this year. Plus you can count on Liljegren's role increasing next year as well. He'll still get his fair share, but it's not like he's going to get Dermott's ice time.

And if you are going to do that deal, then you have to convince them to go for someone like Bracco since at least it is an area of strength. Maybe include Nielsen as well, but Kapanen and Brown are 100% off of the table. We may be able to replace them, but it's still a sizable hole that needs to be filled, and we are not going to open up a hole to pad an area of strength. Never mind lose in terms of value as well.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'd happily trade any Marlie playing on the wing for him

I'd easily do Brown 1 v 1

I'm 50/50 on a Johnsson/Kapanen swap 1 v 1

Besides Liljegren I don't think that much of any of the Marlies RD and I see Holl as a 6/7

Why?

Double why?

Brown = Kapanen > Johnsson. Right now, we are hoping Johnsson can just become another Brown.

And it's not about their NHL prospects, but about how much they'll play. They are going to play because they are important pieces to the defense. Our entire LD, especially if Marincin leaves, will be prospects. We will need guys who can provide experience and leadership back there. Those guys are key pieces for that, and will be getting plenty of ice time. That + Liljegren's increase will make it difficult for him to get as much ice time as he did in Stockton.

 

[Kiwi]

Why?

Double why?

Brown = Kapanen > Johnsson. Right now, we are hoping Johnsson can just become another Brown.

And it's not about their NHL prospects, but about how much they'll play. They are going to play because they are important pieces to the defense. Our entire LD, especially if Marincin leaves, will be prospects. We will need guys who can provide experience and leadership back there. Those guys are key pieces for that, and will be getting plenty of ice time. That + Liljegren's increase will make it difficult for him to get as much ice time as he did in Stockton.

Jesus people overrate our own guys

Johnsson is unproven and already in his mid 20's, Kapanen is decent with some upside but is projecting as nothing special and Brown is a 30-40 point nothing special winger

Andersson is projecting as a top 4 RD in the Dermott mold that can play on the Leafs next season and we're not mortgaging the future to get him

In a couple of years a RD of Andersson Liljegren and Zaitsev looks a damn sight better than Zaitsev Liljegren.....?

 

[Cor]

I think our aim should, and will be higher than Rasmus Andersson

 

[Boutette]

Jesus people overrate our own guys

Johnsson is unproven and already in his mid 20's, Kapanen is decent with some upside but is projecting as nothing special and Brown is a 30-40 point nothing special winger

Andersson is projecting as a top 4 RD in the Dermott mold that can play on the Leafs next season and we're not mortgaging the future to get him

In a couple of years a RD of Andersson Liljegren and Zaitsev looks a damn sight better than Zaitsev Liljegren.....?

I don't think we do overrate our players, any more than any other team does. A Flyers fan said Johnsson, who has been too good for the AHL the past 50+ games, said he wouldn't be in their prospect top ten. You believe that too?

Our team have a history of dumping our young players and watching them succeed handsomely elsewhere. Johnsson and Kapanen are needed to replace our outgoing offense. So far they've been held back by being stuck with the likes of Smith, Moore, Komarov and Pleckanec, players who in no way could keep up with them and played 4th line minutes, and they've still produced reasonable well considering what little support they had and the fact they were rookies. Who steps in when they are gone? High priced aging and declining GUD PROS? Hey, it worked for the Quinn era. We got our share of Cup rings then, right?

Will Calgary let go of such a Gem for these players you consider crappy no matter how many we throw at them? Probably not, since they are, as you say nothing special, and Andersson is GOLD. We'd do better getting a UFA defensemen to shore us up while Liljegren and players like Borgman and Rosen improve, while we improve our forward's defense through subtraction of the likes of JVR, Bozak et al, with superior defensive and speedy players like Johnsson and Kapanen who will improve playing with young uptempo players like each other rather than broken down geezers the leafs have had them play with.

Imagine how many more goals Kapanen might have scored if his teammates could keep up with him and give him those extra seconds and space to shoot? He might have hit fewer posts and picked up more assists if they weren't always half the ice behind him on the rush. Johnsson too was on a 25-30pt pace playing limited minutes with new players for his first 15 games in the big league. Lets give him the opportunity that Brown got (before he was sent to the 4th line then to play nursemaid for JVR & Bozak) or Hyman etc. before we judge him as 'nothing special'. Maybe given half the kind of opportunity Bozak got, who was slotted on the team's top scoring after just half a season with the Marlies. Our team should provide our prospects at least the opportunity to succeed before shoving them out the door.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Jesus people overrate our own guys

Johnsson is unproven and already in his mid 20's, Kapanen is decent with some upside but is projecting as nothing special and Brown is a 30-40 point nothing special winger

Andersson is projecting as a top 4 RD in the Dermott mold that can play on the Leafs next season and we're not mortgaging the future to get him

In a couple of years a RD of Andersson Liljegren and Zaitsev looks a damn sight better than Zaitsev Liljegren.....?

I'm not overrating anything. If anything, assuming the guy will be some lock for our future defense is overrating him, because out of the 4 guys you mentioned, he's the furthest from being an NHLer. Andersson is nothing special either, so he fits right in I guess.

We need to stop pretending every B-prospect (or whatever you want to call Andersson that's below the top tier guys) RD and every half-decently looking defenseman is going to solve our problems right now, or in the future, because it really is not. Whether you think highly of Johnsson, Kapanen and Brown or not, they are going to be important for this team going forward. They, along with guys like Hyman, Kadri and Lindholm, for once actually give us a forward group that is more than capable of playing a responsible, defensive brand of hockey while still possessing the skill to produce at a respectable (or more than respectable in Kadri's case) rate. Types of guys that a lot of the really successful teams are practically exclusively filled with outside of their premier scorers (in our case, the Big 3). For once we can actually properly run 4 lines that can play on both ends of the ice, and not have to shelter them. Regardless, our forward group needed to improve defensively about as much, if not more, than our defensive group if we wanted to see serious improvements in our own end.

That does not mean Johnsson, Brown and Kapanen are off the market, but if a trade offer does not contain either an outrageous futures overpayment or something that can help the Leafs now and for many years in the future, we might as well hang up the phone, because they are not worth anything less to us than that. Rasmus Andersson, unfortunately, falls in neither of those categories.

If they have interest in Bracco or Nielsen or some other prospect with a lot of upside but is still a year or two away from the NHL, then maybe there can be a conversation on a one-for-one or a two-for-one swap.

 

[HC7]

If anyone here wouldn't do Brown for Andersson 1 for 1 then say so now so you can get added to the ignore list.

 

[Kiwi]

I don't think we do overrate our players, any more than any other team does. A Flyers fan said Johnsson, who has been too good for the AHL the past 50+ games, said he wouldn't be in their prospect top ten. You believe that too?

Our team have a history of dumping our young players and watching them succeed handsomely elsewhere. Johnsson and Kapanen are needed to replace our outgoing offense. So far they've been held back by being stuck with the likes of Smith, Moore, Komarov and Pleckanec, players who in no way could keep up with them and played 4th line minutes, and they've still produced reasonable well considering what little support they had and the fact they were rookies. Who steps in when they are gone? High priced aging and declining GUD PROS? Hey, it worked for the Quinn era. We got our share of Cup rings then, right?

Will Calgary let go of such a Gem for these players you consider crappy no matter how many we throw at them? Probably not, since they are, as you say nothing special, and Andersson is GOLD. We'd do better getting a UFA defensemen to shore us up while Liljegren and players like Borgman and Rosen improve, while we improve our forward's defense through subtraction of the likes of JVR, Bozak et al, with superior defensive and speedy players like Johnsson and Kapanen who will improve playing with young uptempo players like each other rather than broken down geezers the leafs have had them play with.

Imagine how many more goals Kapanen might have scored if his teammates could keep up with him and give him those extra seconds and space to shoot? He might have hit fewer posts and picked up more assists if they weren't always half the ice behind him on the rush. Johnsson too was on a 25-30pt pace playing limited minutes with new players for his first 15 games in the big league. Lets give him the opportunity that Brown got (before he was sent to the 4th line then to play nursemaid for JVR & Bozak) or Hyman etc. before we judge him as 'nothing special'. Maybe given half the kind of opportunity Bozak got, who was slotted on the team's top scoring after just half a season with the Marlies. Our team should provide our prospects at least the opportunity to succeed before shoving them out the door.

Who cares what one Flyers fan thinks after we handed his team there ass in the playoffs?

We wouldn't be dumping them for **** sakes were trading lesser roster pieces for a long term solution at RD

We currently have Zaitsev (very iffy) and Liljegren as decent RD options mid to longer term and **** all behind that

I'm not overrating anything. If anything, assuming the guy will be some lock for our future defense is overrating him, because out of the 4 guys you mentioned, he's the furthest from being an NHLer. Andersson is nothing special either, so he fits right in I guess.

We need to stop pretending every B-prospect (or whatever you want to call Andersson that's below the top tier guys) RD and every half-decently looking defenseman is going to solve our problems right now, or in the future, because it really is not. Whether you think highly of Johnsson, Kapanen and Brown or not, they are going to be important for this team going forward. They, along with guys like Hyman, Kadri and Lindholm, for once actually give us a forward group that is more than capable of playing a responsible, defensive brand of hockey while still possessing the skill to produce at a respectable (or more than respectable in Kadri's case) rate. Types of guys that a lot of the really successful teams are practically exclusively filled with outside of their premier scorers (in our case, the Big 3). For once we can actually properly run 4 lines that can play on both ends of the ice, and not have to shelter them. Regardless, our forward group needed to improve defensively about as much, if not more, than our defensive group if we wanted to see serious improvements in our own end.

That does not mean Johnsson, Brown and Kapanen are off the market, but if a trade offer does not contain either an outrageous futures overpayment or something that can help the Leafs now and for many years in the future, we might as well hang up the phone, because they are not worth anything less to us than that. Rasmus Andersson, unfortunately, falls in neither of those categories.

If they have interest in Bracco or Nielsen or some other prospect with a lot of upside but is still a year or two away from the NHL, then maybe there can be a conversation on a one-for-one or a two-for-one swap.

So you want something and don't want to give up anything of value to get it
Typical hfboards

Our best bet to get a RD by trade is to get one that hasn't broken out yet at a reasonable cost and a mid 6 meh winger is a reasonable cost

I'm sure teams are just lining up to give us there talented RD for **** but having Zaitsev as our only Leafs ready RD organizationally is catastrophically bad and all the mid 6 wingers in the world aren't going to fix that

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If anyone here wouldn't do Brown for Andersson 1 for 1 then say so now so you can get added to the ignore list.

Before you do that, why is it so overwhelmingly easy to do that deal? Obviously I am missing something about this great defensive prospect?

So you want something and don't want to give up anything of value to get it
Typical hfboards

Our best bet to get a RD by trade is to get one that hasn't broken out yet at a reasonable cost and a mid 6 meh winger is a reasonable cost

I'm sure teams are just lining up to give us there talented RD for **** but having Zaitsev as our only Leafs ready RD organizationally is catastrophically bad and all the mid 6 wingers in the world aren't going to fix that

I did not say I wanted Andersson. And last time I checked, we've got some valuable pieces outside of Johnsson, Kapanen and Brown that we can afford to give up.

 

[Rielly4]

I think people are a little bit too obsessed to having lefty righty combo on every single pairing. Its ok to have a pairing with 2 leftys. Connor Brown is a big part of what makes our team what it is...Speed and tenacity on the forecheck and backcheck. He is also a great PK guy. Not saying he is untouchable, i would move him for the right piece...Havent seen enough of Andersson to know his potential but unless he could fill a top 4 role and be a shutdown defender with PK ability it isnt a good move to trade Connor Brown.

 

[Kiwi]

Before you do that, why is it so overwhelmingly easy to do that deal? Obviously I am missing something about this great defensive prospect?



I did not say I wanted Andersson. And last time I checked, we've got some valuable pieces outside of Johnsson, Kapanen and Brown that we can afford to give up.

So you don't want Andersson? Tells me all I need to know right there
Nobody is ever good enough or worth anything but **** from us

Were not Tampa

We've got Liljegren Grundstrom and Picks

Nothing else is even coming close to having the value to go after a decent RD with upside

 

[Boutette]

Who cares what one Flyers fan thinks after we handed his team there ass in the playoffs?

We wouldn't be dumping them for **** sakes were trading lesser roster pieces for a long term solution at RD

We currently have Zaitsev (very iffy) and Liljegren as decent RD options mid to longer term and **** all behind that



So you want something and don't want to give up anything of value to get it
Typical hfboards

Our best bet to get a RD by trade is to get one that hasn't broken out yet at a reasonable cost and a mid 6 meh winger is a reasonable cost

I'm sure teams are just lining up to give us there talented RD for **** but having Zaitsev as our only Leafs ready RD organizationally is catastrophically bad and all the mid 6 wingers in the world aren't going to fix that

If Calgary at all sees a future in Andersson like you do, a 'meh' winger as you say, isn't going to cut it. We'll either have to sweeten the pot with a couple of your so called 'meh' wingers or something more. If it ends up creating a hole in our team to fill another hole, then its not worth it, now is it? And maybe a trade isn't the way to go until we won't be filling holes just to create new ones.

 

[HC7]

Would anyone here take Brown over Dermott?

Cause it's basically the same thing except Rasmus is right handed and was better offensively in the AHL.

 

[ToneDog]

If anyone here wouldn't do Brown for Andersson 1 for 1 then say so now so you can get added to the ignore list.

Nah. Everybody knows that many Leaf fans are passionate, fall in love with their players and as such are not able to be objective when it comes to trades. Not a reason to put them on your ignore list

 

[rumman]

Marleau-Matthews-Marner
Grundstrom-Kadri-Hyman
Johnsson-Nylander-Kapanen
Marchment-Schaller-Brown

Gardiner-Rielly
Dermott-Zaitsev
Hainsey-Holl

Andersen
Sparks

I think with this amazing marlies run we should look to enhance internally instead of externally. The only guy i would add is Schaller as i dont think Aaltonen is the right fit, not strong or gritty enough.

I'm liking the youthful look you've made here (much better than Bozak/JVR/Leo), but if a trade for a RD is out there I'd like to see it happen, drop Zats down the line up, I don't think having him in top 4 is a good idea the way his game was last season. Also could pick up a vet at the deadline for depth and hopefully a deeper playoff run?