For or against AHL eligibility changes?

[Jack Bauer]

I get that, I do. In the long run it will diminish our place in the hockey world. Look what it did to our tending... Nearly decimated it.

I disagree in a huge way.

The way we coach the sport is what's killed our goaltending depth.

Most here remember that the Q in the 90's/early 2000's was considered the goaltending factory of the NHL.

What happened right around 2000 though was the smaller and more offensive game being coached in Quebec started to fall apart as bigger and more complete players started to make their way into the league from the US and Maritimes after expansion to Atlantic Canada.

The result was the smaller and more offensive league turning into more of a WHL style league due to coaching. That coaching is meant to limit offensive chances to a minimum and limit shot quality meaning goaltenders stopped seeing near as many shots and the shots they were seeing were starting to be a worse quality. Obviously that started to radically effect the development of the goaltenders in this era.

Take that same style down the ranks to midget and bantam and it's obvious why we started to produce less high quality goaltenders. We completely changed the environment that was developing them and changed it to a system trying to develop systems for players to play within rather the individual skill.

Goaltending depth falling off was the negative part of that change that somehow nobody seen coming yet in a way was obviously going to happen.

 

[thewave]

I disagree in a huge way.

The way we coach the sport is what's killed our goaltending depth.

Most here remember that the Q in the 90's/early 2000's was considered the goaltending factory of the NHL.

What happened right around 2000 though was the smaller and more offensive game being coached in Quebec started to fall apart as bigger and more complete players started to make their way into the league from the US and Maritimes after expansion to Atlantic Canada.

The result was the smaller and more offensive league turning into more of a WHL style league due to coaching. That coaching is meant to limit offensive chances to a minimum and limit shot quality meaning goaltenders stopped seeing near as many shots and the shots they were seeing were starting to be a worse quality. Obviously that started to radically effect the development of the goaltenders in this era.

Take that same style down the ranks to midget and bantam and it's obvious why we started to produce less high quality goaltenders. We completely changed the environment that was developing them and changed it to a system trying to develop systems for players to play within rather the individual skill.

Goaltending depth falling off was the negative part of that change that somehow nobody seen coming yet in a way was obviously going to happen.

Fantastic, thanks for pretty much unintentionally proving my point about geographically unique styles and how they relate to the development of the game. That's exactly what I am talking about. This all inclusive melting pot model will end up destroying our game. When I say OUR game, I do not mean our sport but how we come together Q O and W.

When the soup tastes good don't water it down.

 

[Mess]

Not exactly.

Anyone drafted can go right to the NHL.

Exceptional players who play at 15 in the CHL can play AHL at 19 is really the biggest advantage they have other non-exceptional CHL players.

Absolutely, and just to clarify for everyone that the CHL eligibility rule is the CHL team owns a player for 4 years of service (age 16, 17, 18 and 19) & up to age 20 which ever comes first.

With exceptional status that changes the range age 15 -18 and that would allow a player to move to the AHL at age 19, after completing 4 years of CHL service previously.

Marner wasn't given exceptional status into the OHL @ age 15, and wasn't kept by the Leafs at age 18 either and thus this is only his 3rd year of CHL eligibilty.

Marner owes the CHL +1 more year after this one, unless the Leafs keep him so its either NHL or back to the OHL for year #4.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Junior teams are trying to run a business and its top players and its team success is important to bringing in fans and filling junior rinks.

If you allow teams in the CHL to lose their best players to both the NHL & AHL then your watering down the talent level of the CHL and quality of competition for all players being developed for the NHL.

So this is also about the health of the CHL as not all teams could survive and sometimes even fold and relocate because they can't stay viable financially in some markets without star power of young stars. If a team like London sends Domi to the NHL, Dvorak and Marner to the AHL this year then who is going to go see London Knight games live and pay for admission.

This isn't only in place to keep Marner in London for the health of the junior team, but the QofC in the league is improved by his existence. When Travis Dermott developing in the same league has to defend and try and shutdown a star player like Marner its speaks to his development as a player by facing the challenge, ditto for a junior goalies trying to stop shots or all other players etc throughout.

Also a top future draft prospect like Matt Tkachuk is being developed for the NHL because he gets to play and learn from Marner/Dvorak his current teammates

If Marner, Strome, Crouse, Konecny, Dvorak, etc etc all played in the AHL this year because of teams choice then the quality of the entire OHL would suffer due to lack of quality of competition overall by removing all top scoring leaders. So this rule isn't about punishing the exceptional few its about what is the greater good for the league overall.

Because the NHL is a harder league to play in and you have more CHLers capable of playing in the AHL at 18-20 than you do the NHL.

Marner may be able to play in the NHL and you could lose him either way, but there is another tier of prospects who clearly aren't NHL ready but could play in the AHL.

ahhh. i see. thank you.

 

[Daisy Jane]

This reeks of an entitlement complex amongst Leaf fans. I don't remember posters having issues with the AHL eligibility rules before we drafted Mitch Marner. Every prospect and team in history has had to deal with the rules that are in place, and for good reason. It protects the CHL's product. So suck it up and deal with the fact that it's London or the Leafs next season for Marner, like every prospect that came before him.

The rules are perfect.

actually, no. i've seen this come up before - Before we drafted Mitch Marner, and I know that a few people thought that the rules "weren't perfect" I would think for any player who truly dominates in a development league and they'd have to stay there, there should be a consideration that they be allowed to go to another league where they could be challenged. and this is from someone who thinks that Marner could benefit from being in junior one more year.

 

[TMLegend]

actually, no. i've seen this come up before - Before we drafted Mitch Marner, and I know that a few people thought that the rules "weren't perfect" I would think for any player who truly dominates in a development league and they'd have to stay there, there should be a consideration that they be allowed to go to another league where they could be challenged. and this is from someone who thinks that Marner could benefit from being in junior one more year.

Fair enough. I could of chose my words better. The rules are fine would have been much better I think.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Fair enough. I could of chose my words better. The rules are fine would have been much better I think.

that's fair.

 

[Mess]

Just to add to this thread theme.

The NHL entry draft used to have higher age restrictions in the past to protect the CHL where you could only draft 19/20 years olds and exceptional younger players age 18 had to opt-in to the draft and could only be drafted in the first few rounds. Players age 18 had to file paper work with the league to allow them to selected. (google Pavel Bure entry draft) etc to see an example in the past) or opt-in rule.

Then when the NHL lowered the draft age to 18 again, they created this CHL-NHL rights eligibility rule, so that players that didn't make NHL teams needed to be returned to their junior clubs.

Essentially, "you can have access to exceptional players earlier but you have to return everyone that you don't keep in the NHL up to age 20". It was the comprise by reducing the draft age to younger again when the Cap system was introduced.

 

[BlueBaron]

How does this only exist because of Marner when some of us CHL fans have been asking for it for a decade or more?

Show me some other threads on our forum then with this subject. I of course was talking in a Leaf context. Did Leaf fans care before Marner ? I'll wager no.

Sure CHL fans may have discussed this but that has nothing to do with what I said.

So what are you laughing at exactly ? Yourself and your inability to follow what is written ?

 

[Menzinger]

Nope.

Take the stars out of the CHL and you kill the league - you kill the league and the NHL loses its primary feeder league.

Send kids too good for the CHal to Europe. Seemed to have worked out for Matthews.

 

[thewave]

Nope.

Take the stars out of the CHL and you kill the league - you kill the league and the NHL loses its primary feeder league.

Send kids too good for the CHal to Europe. Seemed to have worked out for Matthews.

A CHL for Canadian players only will advance Canadian development more so than taking foreign players is my stance.

The newer platform is already breaking down. Who are the top picks this year? Next year Button said we have 2 in the top 5 likely?

 

[Jack Bauer]

Show me some other threads on our forum then with this subject. I of course was talking in a Leaf context. Did Leaf fans care before Marner ? I'll wager no.

Sure CHL fans may have discussed this but that has nothing to do with what I said.

So what are you laughing at exactly ? Yourself and your inability to follow what is written ?

Laughing at the fact that you make a statement with no basis on a forum with a decade or so of posting history yet get into this circular logic of me others having to prove you wrong rather then you take the time to actually prove yourself right.

Most people here are not simply Leaf fans. They are hockey fans with opinions that go beyond the NHL team that they follow. Some are big CHL fans in their home town with good knowledge of the league and how the players develop.

 

[Jack Bauer]

A CHL for Canadian players only will advance Canadian development more so than taking foreign players is my stance.

The newer platform is already breaking down. Who are the top picks this year? Next year Button said we have 2 in the top 5 likely?

The platform is breaking down due to the cost of minor hockey in an economy with an ever shrinking middle class....not because each CHL team can have 2 Europeans. Canada is way bigger then the hockey development system relying on those bottom 100 or so players.

We need more minor hockey systems built like the one in Glace Bay NS where a 50/50 lottery pays most of the cost for a kid going through there. They have a Logan Shaw now as the end result of that brilliant system playing in Florida.

Some of our best younger hockey players are simply playing sports like soccer due to the costs as they get older.