For or against AHL eligibility changes?

[Gallagbi]

That's the only reason I attend.

Same, I attend for the visiting prospect(s), not the home team.

 

[Drew311]

I think they should change eligibility age to 19. That gives drafted prospects the opportunity to play one post-draft year in junior and transition to pro the next season, if they are ready. I really don't like the 20 year old rule for players like Marner, as the AHL would be the perfect situation for him next season. Would give him another season to get bigger and stronger making the transition to the NHL much easier.

 

[Mess]

Same, I attend for the visiting prospect(s), not the home team.

Yes, its not only about attendance in he home rink for the CHL.

Leaf fans don't have to go to London to see Marner play, they can also catch him in Kitchener, Mississauga, Hamilton.

A star player isn't only a draw for the league in his home building but around the league.

 

[Raging Bull]

Can't think of a prospect that's development has been hurt by overcooking in juniors. Rules are fine the way they are.

 

[diceman934]

Let's be real here, do people even watch CHL games or attend CHL games for the players? They would do so for leisure like a night out or a date or something not for the 'quality'

I go to watch the players play......many times alone(wife hates hockey). When I lived in Ontario I went to Gens, Petes and Bulls games as I lived in that region. Now I go to Warriors and Pats games.

 

[Primary Assist]

Can't think of a prospect that's development has been hurt by overcooking in juniors. Rules are fine the way they are.

I think the guy in your avatar may disagree

 

[Jack Bauer]

Can't think of a prospect that's development has been hurt by overcooking in juniors. Rules are fine the way they are.

I always find these comments interesting.

Perhaps the reason you can't think of any is because the player never moved up when they were ready and regressed in development.

I look at a Drouin right now and say that the entire situation is avoided if he could have went to the AHL at 18. Instead he went back and played a rather selfish game which inflated his point totals and he couldn't properly transition to the NHL at 19 with the bad habits.

Now at 20 he refuses to even play in the AHL.

There's always situations that could have turned out differently with a different set of rules. To say there's none is kind of laughable in a sport where many players at times prove to just need an opportunity at the right time.

I think every organization probably has a player who with a different system could be progressing differently, both good and bad.

I look at a Marner and think he should be AHL eligible next year but instead we risk sending him back and developing habits that he simply wouldn't playing in the AHL.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Let's be real here, do people even watch CHL games or attend CHL games for the players? They would do so for leisure like a night out or a date or something not for the 'quality'

Absolutely people do. I know people who will go to a CHL game if a prospect from their favorite NHL team is playing who otherwise wouldn't even consider it as an option for a night out.

Attendance always trends higher then a top prospect is playing for the other team.

Sure you get the people just looking for a night out who will take in any game, but that's not the entire population.

You can flip that around and ask if attendance would be better overall with better players to watch and I think that question is answered with an obvious yes.

 

[Fogelhund]

What I find to be interesting, is that there is an exceptional player rule, that allows certain players to get into the CHL at an early age, but there isn't one for them to move to the AHL.

Personally I believe that there should be an "exception rule", though it should be of a high enough standard, that it isn't an easy bar to pass. Draft Year +2 minimum, Top 5 or 10 pick, compensation to the Junior team. The bottom line here, is that at the most, you are going to be talking about one or two players a year under such a scenario, which is hardly going to dilute the CHL to a point of fiscal trouble. I believe there has to be some middle ground here.

 

[Jack Bauer]

What I find to be interesting, is that there is an exceptional player rule, that allows certain players to get into the CHL at an early age, but there isn't one for them to move to the AHL.

Personally I believe that there should be an "exception rule", though it should be of a high enough standard, that it isn't an easy bar to pass. Draft Year +2 minimum, Top 5 or 10 pick, compensation to the Junior team. The bottom line here, is that at the most, you are going to be talking about one or two players a year under such a scenario, which is hardly going to dilute the CHL to a point of fiscal trouble. I believe there has to be some middle ground here.

Agree 100%.

I think a simple rule change of 1st rounders being eligible at 19 helps to make that situation a lot better for teams and player development.

Would we rather Nylander playing OHL or AHL right now? I think the answer is easily AHL. Especially since the OHL option is always there.

 

[TheOtherSide]

It really should change...its not like teams would be bringing every 18/19 year old prospect up to play in the AHL. Look how fun it is to see young guys like Nylander and Rantanen play in the AHL! If they were CHL players, they would be stuck in juniors right now. It is sad that a guy like Marner may have to go back to the CHL when he should be starting his professional career next year.

For people saying it will hurt the CHL, think about how it could help the AHL!

 

[thewave]

They should drop it to 19 for AHL. I would prefer less foreign talent in the CHL.

 

[TMLegend]

This reeks of an entitlement complex amongst Leaf fans. I don't remember posters having issues with the AHL eligibility rules before we drafted Mitch Marner. Every prospect and team in history has had to deal with the rules that are in place, and for good reason. It protects the CHL's product. So suck it up and deal with the fact that it's London or the Leafs next season for Marner, like every prospect that came before him.

The rules are perfect.

 

[Mess]

If fans looked at the big picture not just the individual player they would like change their opinion or understand better why the rule exists.

Lets take Matt Tkackuk as a example.

London Knights recruited him out of the USA and away for the NCAA college route by dangling the "come play in London with Marner" as we have a strong NHL development system".

If Marner and Dvorak were in the AHL and not OHL then Tkachuk likely never comes to the OHL in the first place to improve the talent level of the league.

How about Tkachuk own development? .. He is being groomed as a top 5 prospect for the upcoming entry draft for NHL teams. He is becoming a better player because he is in an environment where he is scoring goals off of Marner set-ups and recording assists on Marner goals and learning and developing by watching older players as his role model & emulating them.

So
A) Would Tkachuk even have come to the OHL for the good of the league?
B) How would Tkachuk development be as a future top prospect with or without Marner?
C) What would London Knight attendance records look like if Marner, Dvorak and then also by extension Tkachuk were not playing for the team itself this year?

So Marner isn't only developing Marner himself by the CHL eligibility rule (because he isn't ready to graduate to the NHL), but also Tkachuk and other future NHLers by the very same rule.

Marner being forced back to junior by the rule is only a very small piece of a much bigger puzzle, and not there simply to punish Marner, but try and develop a whole league of future NHLers.

 

[thewave]

This reeks of an entitlement complex amongst Leaf fans. I don't remember posters having issues with the AHL eligibility rules before we drafted Mitch Marner. Every prospect and team in history has had to deal with the rules that are in place, and for good reason. It protects the CHL's product. So suck it up and deal with the fact that it's London or the Leafs next season for Marner, like every prospect that came before him.

The rules are perfect.

The CHL ones are not good for hockey Canada. We would be better served as a nation for developing our own exclusively.

 

[Jack Bauer]

This reeks of an entitlement complex amongst Leaf fans. I don't remember posters having issues with the AHL eligibility rules before we drafted Mitch Marner. Every prospect and team in history has had to deal with the rules that are in place, and for good reason. It protects the CHL's product. So suck it up and deal with the fact that it's London or the Leafs next season for Marner, like every prospect that came before him.

The rules are perfect.

There's years of history to find on the topic on these boards.

Some of us have been in favor of an exception to the AHL rule since before Mitch Marner knew how to skate.

The CHL bans European goaltenders due to fear of not developing Canadian goaltenders while allowing American goaltenders yet this is protecting the overall product?

 

[Fogelhund]

If fans looked at the big picture not just the individual player they would like change their opinion or understand better why the rule exists.

Long Term Player Development.

The Long Term Player Development model sets out a vision for hockey in Canada that takes advantage of the history and culture of the game to increase participation and to lay the foundations of international success long into the future.

This model for hockey has been developed based on the following principles:

• doing the right thing for the player at the right stage in their development
• adopting a player-centered approach and not treating the development of all players the same way
• the broader the foundation of players the more successful the game of hockey will be in Canada
• viewing player development as a long term process
• aligning player development resources (skills manuals, DVDs) with coach development and education resources so that coaches are doing the right things at the right time
• a need to better educate parents on the hockey development of their child – it is okay for parents to want their kids to get to the highest levels but they need to know the best way to go about it

---------------------------

Player development, in any sport, should be about the player... not the good of the team, or business, or..... The focus should always be on the development of the player.

As I've stated above, the CHL and Hockey Canada believe in LTPD, to the point that if a player is too good below CHL, they can apply to join the CHL, to assist in their development. Nobody cares that whatever league they come from might be weaker, or might not attract players to play with them... The whole premise is on what is best for the development of that player. Yet, we wish to not develop elite players with the same concepts that Hockey Canada has laid before us, and is utilized by every sport, in nearly every country now. It's just daft, and we are talking about so few players.

 

[diceman934]

I always find these comments interesting.

Perhaps the reason you can't think of any is because the player never moved up when they were ready and regressed in development.

I look at a Drouin right now and say that the entire situation is avoided if he could have went to the AHL at 18. Instead he went back and played a rather selfish game which inflated his point totals and he couldn't properly transition to the NHL at 19 with the bad habits.

Now at 20 he refuses to even play in the AHL.

There's always situations that could have turned out differently with a different set of rules. To say there's none is kind of laughable in a sport where many players at times prove to just need an opportunity at the right time.

I think every organization probably has a player who with a different system could be progressing differently, both good and bad.

I look at a Marner and think he should be AHL eligible next year but instead we risk sending him back and developing habits that he simply wouldn't playing in the AHL.

Being selfish and thinking himself to be entitled is his issue.....

 

[Jack Bauer]

If fans looked at the big picture not just the individual player they would like change their opinion or understand better why the rule exists.

Lets take Matt Tkackuk as a example.

London Knights recruited him out of the USA and away for the NCAA college route by dangling the "come play in London with Marner" as we have a strong NHL development system".

If Marner and Dvorak were in the AHL and not OHL then Tkachuk likely never comes to the OHL in the first place to improve the talent level of the league.

How about Tkachuk own development? .. He is being groomed as a top 5 prospect for the upcoming entry draft for NHL teams. He is becoming a better player because he is in an environment where he is scoring goals off of Marner set-ups and recording assists on Marner goals and learning and developing by watching older players as his role model & emulating them.

So
A) Would Tkachuk even have come to the OHL for the good of the league?
B) How would Tkachuk development be as a future top prospect with or without Marner?
C) What would London Knight attendance records look like if Marner, Dvorak and then also by extension Tkachuk were not playing for the team itself this year?

So Marner isn't only developing Marner himself by the CHL eligibility rule (because he isn't ready to graduate to the NHL), but also Tkachuk and other future NHLers by the very same rule.

Marner being forced back to junior by the rule is only a very small piece of a much bigger puzzle, and not there simply to punish Marner, but try and develop a whole league of future NHLers.

Then why ban European goaltenders?

 

[Jack Bauer]

Being selfish and thinking himself to be entitled is his issue.....

That could have been avoided if the system was in place to offer the best development path to the best players.

Instead it's a standardized system meant to benefit everyone the same.

Perhaps Austin Matthews is in the WHL right now if he could play pro next season.

 

[thewave]

Long Term Player Development.

The Long Term Player Development model sets out a vision for hockey in Canada that takes advantage of the history and culture of the game to increase participation and to lay the foundations of international success long into the future.

This model for hockey has been developed based on the following principles:

• doing the right thing for the player at the right stage in their development
• adopting a player-centered approach and not treating the development of all players the same way
• the broader the foundation of players the more successful the game of hockey will be in Canada
• viewing player development as a long term process
• aligning player development resources (skills manuals, DVDs) with coach development and education resources so that coaches are doing the right things at the right time
• a need to better educate parents on the hockey development of their child – it is okay for parents to want their kids to get to the highest levels but they need to know the best way to go about it

---------------------------

Player development, in any sport, should be about the player... not the good of the team, or business, or..... The focus should always be on the development of the player.

Kids are mature at least a year or so more quickly. 19 is fine now.

 

[diceman934]

Long Term Player Development.

The Long Term Player Development model sets out a vision for hockey in Canada that takes advantage of the history and culture of the game to increase participation and to lay the foundations of international success long into the future.

This model for hockey has been developed based on the following principles:

• doing the right thing for the player at the right stage in their development
• adopting a player-centered approach and not treating the development of all players the same way
• the broader the foundation of players the more successful the game of hockey will be in Canada
• viewing player development as a long term process
• aligning player development resources (skills manuals, DVDs) with coach development and education resources so that coaches are doing the right things at the right time
• a need to better educate parents on the hockey development of their child – it is okay for parents to want their kids to get to the highest levels but they need to know the best way to go about it

---------------------------

Player development, in any sport, should be about the player... not the good of the team, or business, or..... The focus should always be on the development of the player.

It is now under the current rules.

Allowing a boy to play with men in the AHL is not in the best interest of the player. Either they are mature enough to play in the NHL as an 18 or 19 year old or they play Jr with their peers.

 

[diceman934]

Kids are mature at least a year or so more quickly. 19 is fine now.

Ironic

 

[TMLegend]

The CHL ones are not good for hockey Canada. We would be better served as a nation for developing our own exclusively.

I agree. Take care of your own first. I'm not in a place to question what rules they have in place though, and won't pretend to be.

 

[Fogelhund]

It is now under the current rules.

Allowing a boy to play with men in the AHL is not in the best interest of the player. Either they are mature enough to play in the NHL as an 18 or 19 year old or they play Jr with their peers.

But we support exceptional 15 year old boys in the CHL, against 18-20 year olds?

But we support Europeans such as Nylander playing in the AHL?

This just doesn't make sense at all... this isn't about the players, or their development... it is about money, and earning the Junior teams some income. So, compensate them.