Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[seabass45]

1) We were a cup contender in 2021
2) The question presented was asking which team was more talented. Choking in the post-season doesn't indicate talent. Were the 2010, 2016, and 2017 Caps not talented? Were the pre-2020 Tampa teams lacking talent?

I don’t think the Bruins are that talented and I’d rate them as the fourth of the remaining East teams if they get past Toronto and it’s not particularly close.

 

[Throttle]

Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, Sorokin, Pelech, Pulock, Mayfield, and f***ing Pierre Engvall.

To me, a core player would be one that has been here since Lou took over, he either resigned or kept around when looking at ‘this core has had enough time.’ So, that would be Czikas, Martin, Clutter, etc. vs the Dobson, Horvat, and Engvall.

I don’t think the Bruins are that talented and I’d rate them as the fourth of the remaining East teams if they get past Toronto and it’s not particularly close.

What’s interesting there is that the loser has no choice, but to make changes to their roster from a losing position.

 

[Lame Lambert]

To me, a core player would be one that has been here since Lou took over, he either resigned or kept around when looking at ‘this core has had enough time.’ So, that would be Czikas, Martin, Clutter, etc. vs the Dobson, Horvat, and Engvall.

Core players would be the ones signed long-term or expected to sign long-term. Are guys like Mayfield and Engvall core players? No, but Lou decided to make them one.

 

[periferal]

My question is, if he makes all the moves you want then do you still think he needs to be removed?

This really doesn't matter because...

Is there anything he could do for those that want him gone that would have you change your mind?

Absolutely. Get this team back to the semi-finals. A Cup is the dream, but to me when you make the semi-finals you're a contender and that's really all a fan can ask for.

So to sum it up - Making "moves" don't matter. Every offseason lots of teams make lots of moves. Some work and some don't, and we'll never know which until the following season is played - And that's all that matter.

RESULTS are what a GM should be judged by. Nothing else.

 

[Throttle]

Core players would be the ones signed long-term or expected to sign long-term. Are guys like Mayfield and Engvall core players? No, but Lou decided to make them one.

And are they really the ones that are holding this team back? A mid-six/nine fwd and a 5/6 d-man?

 

[periferal]

How do you know there is no plan?

Oh I'm quite confident there is a plan. Problem is I'm also quite confident there's been a plan the last few offseasons...And those "plans" have led to these results.

I often wonder if a big section of the Isles fan base still has PTSD of having 2 of the worst GMs of the past 30 years in Milbury and snow, so now that they have an OK one they're making out to be better than he is.

 

[Lame Lambert]

And are they really the ones that are holding this team back? A mid-six/nine fwd and a 5/6 d-man?

Individually? No. When combined with all of the other overpaid, mediocre players? Yes, absolutely.

 

[Top Corner]

S

Does anyone have a summary of the Lou/Roy presser?

Edit: I listened. Does sound like Lou’s intention is to improve the club, we’ll see if he can execute. Moreover, I look forward to Roy having a full training camp to implement what he wants; think that will help. At this current moment, he may not have the personnel.

So it basically sounds like he’s given up on the idea this club is good enough but I’m not sure I want him steering the ship if he indeed believed this was a team who could contend.

 

[Throttle]

Individually? No. When combined with all of the other overpaid, mediocre players? Yes, absolutely.

I agree with that. If they move on from some of the other dead weight, I think those guys can contribute and have less of an emphasis on their role.

What happens this summer will tell a lot of that.

 

[iggy]

If Lou is true to his word that Roy will have input on the direction of the team, I believe the results will be better than the last couple of years.

 

[periferal]

@periferal I saw you make a post on here regarding that some of us think the Isles values are too high. My overall point on a player like Pulock I disagree on. My reasoning for this is if you go back to before we dealt Ladd and Bailey 99% of posters felt a 1st was going to be needed to get rid of them (especially Ladd).

This is how sad things are around here. We're using salary dumps because of the mess Lou got us into capwise as markers to test the market to trade another one of Lou's bad contracts.

And with respect I think you're missing the fact that Lou gave Pulock a no trade clause - So he goes to choose if he leaves and where he would go thus cutting his trade value to very minimal (if he has any at all given how long his contract runs).

But it was Lou who gave Pulock that contract with the NTC so I'd say the chances of "Loyal Lou" even wanting to trade him is slim.

And for the record it took two 2nds and a 3rd to get rid of Ladd (at least that contract wasn't his fault). Would have liked to have seen what those assets could have gotten us in a trade for an actual player to actually help the team.

Lou needs to stop trading for those 3-6M players and focus more on deals like the Horvat one. Over the past 2 years we got more out of Horvat, Parise, MacLean, Fasching, & Holmstrom, then we did from Pageau, Engvall, and Pelech (and just these 3 cost about 3 million more a year than those 5).

 

[BelovedIsles]

S

So it basically sounds like he’s given up on the idea this club is good enough but I’m not sure I want him steering the ship if he indeed believed this was a team who could contend.

Take a listen for yourself.

 

[IslesNorway]

Ultimately, Roy should be the one who decides on the direction of the team, and Lou the one to make that happen through trades and signings.

There is no doubt that this offseason requires big time changes and that Lou really needs to step up the game, now he has said he stays. He surely cannot be happy with how the season went, and it was his own mistakes that made this team into what it is. He needs to take responsibility for that and ring the changes needed.

Now, that starts by being ruthless. Maximise returns for whatever value there is on the roster and work to get rid of dead wood and hurtful long term contracts. No one should be safe, really.

 

[Isles72]

I sensed during the presser that Roy and Lams will work together to set the table for 24-25 . I'm not sure to what extent Lambert or Trotz were involved with offering 2 cents but things seem to be a little different here .

 

[Lek]

Maybe it's to let the rest of the NHL know "We are open for business"

...and i truly believe, with what little he could give away at this time.....that is what he said.

 

[Lek]

Oh I'm quite confident there is a plan. Problem is I'm also quite confident there's been a plan the last few offseasons...And those "plans" have led to these results.

I often wonder if a big section of the Isles fan base still has PTSD of having 2 of the worst GMs of the past 30 years in Milbury and snow, so now that they have an OK one they're making out to be better than he is.

I am not sure there is not a GM we would not bitch about. The percentage of GM's that are above average i would bet are under 20% (think that is generous) and those above that?....less, in or around 10%?. That leaves at least 70% of he GM's average or less and how many do you thing are below average?

Overall, based on his tenure, i would think Lou falls in or just short of above average. Based on the last two years, a solid average. Objectively, I still think he has done an admirable job navigating some tough times even if i do not agree with all he has done.

Picking a GM can be as bad as picking players unless you are picking top 5, and even then....no guarantees.

This year, will be the year we see if he be more creative than he has ever been, to see if he can be well above average. To be....Super Lou!.......He has to be.

 

[CupHolders]

I am not sure there is not a GM we would not bitch about. The percentage of GM's that are above average i would bet are under 20% (think that is generous) and those above that?....less, in or around 10%?. That leaves at least 70% of he GM's average or less and how many do you thing are below average?

Overall, based on his tenure, i would think Lou falls in or just short of above average. Based on the last two years, a solid average. Objectively, I still think he has done an admirable job navigating some tough times even if i do not agree with all he has done.

Picking a GM can be as bad as picking players unless you are picking top 5, and even then....no guarantees.

This year, will be the year we see if he be more creative than he has ever been, to see if he can be well above average. To be....Super Lou!.......He has to be.

Did I just wake up to a balanced and reasonable take on this board? Clearly something is off about today… back to sleep it is for me.

 

[Glory Days]

Core players would be the ones signed long-term or expected to sign long-term. Are guys like Mayfield and Engvall core players? No, but Lou decided to make them one.

I would define the core as the highest paid players. Barzal, Horvat, Lee, Nelson, Pageau, Palmieri, Pulock and Pelech. Those 8 players took up almost 2/3 of the cap last season. that core has not got it done and needs to be broken up.

 

[periferal]

Ultimately, Roy should be the one who decides on the direction of the team, and Lou the one to make that happen through trades and signings.

Then Roy should be GM.

 

[periferal]

I am not sure there is not a GM we would not bitch about. The percentage of GM's that are above average i would bet are under 20% (think that is generous) and those above that?....less, in or around 10%?. That leaves at least 70% of he GM's average or less and how many do you thing are below average?

Overall, based on his tenure, i would think Lou falls in or just short of above average. Based on the last two years, a solid average. Objectively, I still think he has done an admirable job navigating some tough times even if i do not agree with all he has done.

I think you might be on to something. And let's say you're correct - That only about 20% of NHL GMs are above average.

That said should any team tolerate "average" just because it's hard to find a good GM? Is that where we're at around here in terms of standards?

Picking a GM can be as bad as picking players unless you are picking top 5, and even then....no guarantees.

This year, will be the year we see if he be more creative than he has ever been, to see if he can be well above average. To be....Super Lou!.......He has to be.

So a human being who has been at the same job for 40+ years, and is now 81 years old, all of a sudden has to be "more creative than he's ever been." Hopefully you'll understand if I place money on the "things will go like they have before" side.

 

[Osakahaus]

If Lou is staying, I hope he understands that the team needs more than a couple of minor tweaks. I'm guessing that Roy thinks they need to make a handful of moves, so if they're working together....

And if Lou does understand that, I hope he's willing/capable of acting boldly/decisively rather than moving glacially. The team needs probably one big move on D, and easily 3 or 4 moves at F. Can Lou do that in one offseason? IDK.

Im pretty sure they can only do the bottom 6 and 1 defensive fix. The rest has to be executive tier fixes

 

[Top Corner]

Take a listen for yourself.

I think everyone knows from all my posts that I’ve not been a Lou lover from the onset as GM. The basic point to my previous post was that any GM who thought that a returning squad from a previous years first round exit was going to yield a better result doesn’t see it the same as I and many other fans do.
Having not seen the press conference but knowing Roy from his character here in Montreal for years, I can only see him being involved on roster decisions as being a positive thing. I certainly prefer his style of coaching over the previous 2.

 

[Osakahaus]

At this point (and you could look up my posting history) I believe this core has been given every opportunity. Three coaches, a trade for a first line center, and trade for a second pairing young defenseman. Hard decisions need to begin getting made. Adding youth and speed into the lineup would not make this team worse.

Problem is that we have to consider dealing Nelson or Pageau now. will it happen?

 

[MJF]

am not sure there is not a GM we would not bitch about. The percentage of GM's that are above average i would bet are under 20% (think that is generous) and those above that?....less, in or around 10%?. That leaves at least 70% of he GM's average or less and how many do you thing are below average?

Considering that after Bill Torrey our GMs were

Don Maloney
Mike Milbury
Garth Snow

the complaining was ingrained in us and rightfully so. One incompetent GM after another.

 

[MJF]

Core players would be the ones signed long-term or expected to sign long-term. Are guys like Mayfield and Engvall core players? No, but Lou decided to make them one.

I see core players as the ones who set the culture in the room. Usually those are the ones with the most tenure, wear the C and the As on their chests, and speak to the media most often.

On this team the core players are Martin, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Nelson, Lee, Barzal, Pulock, Pelech.