For or against AHL eligibility changes?

[Jerkini]

I don't care about the CHL. I want our players to be playing in a league that is most beneficial to their development. Right now, with Marner, that's not the CHL. For someone like Bracco, I think it is the CHL.

 

[Jack Bauer]

It is now under the current rules.

Allowing a boy to play with men in the AHL is not in the best interest of the player. Either they are mature enough to play in the NHL as an 18 or 19 year old or they play Jr with their peers.

It's been in the best interest of Nylander so far.

Why treat him differently because of where he was drafted from?

 

[Mess]

What I find to be interesting, is that there is an exceptional player rule, that allows certain players to get into the CHL at an early age, but there isn't one for them to move to the AHL.

Why the AHL, there is nothing exceptional about playing in that league? The only distinction difference is the age of the players.

The exceptional rule is to allow Connor McDavid, Aaron Ekblad, John Tavares and all other 18/19 year old kids etc (ie. exceptional players) to play in the NHL early, and not need to be forced back to CHL due to age restrictions. McDavid, Ekblad, Tavares gained exceptional status into the CHL at age 15, and then by that same rule gain exceptional status into the NHL.

Leafs are sending Marner back to OHL by their choice believing he isn't ready.. They could keep him with the NHL team and apply the same exceptional status rule to him to prevent him from going back to junior by the current eligibility rule.

 

[diceman934]

That could have been avoided if the system was in place to offer the best development path to the best players.

Instead it's a standardized system meant to benefit everyone the same.

Perhaps Austin Matthews is in the WHL right now if he could play pro next season.

So he is feeling self entitled and acting like a spoiled brat and talking his ball and going home, because he should have been allowed to play in the AHL as a 19 year old.. who knew.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Why the AHL, there is nothing exceptional about playing in that league? The only distinction difference is the age of the players.

The exceptional rule is to allow Connor McDavid, Aaron Ekblad, John Tavares and all other 18/19 year old kids etc (ie. exceptional players) to play in the NHL early, and not need to be forced back to CHL due to age restrictions. McDavid, Ekblad, Tavares gained exceptional status into the CHL at age 15, and then by that same rule gain exceptional status into the NHL.

Leafs are sending Marner back to OHL by their choice believing he isn't ready.. They could keep him with the NHL team and apply the same exceptional status rule to him to prevent him from going back to junior by the current eligibility rule.

It's also used in a political move to bring an American to the CHL who may otherwise go NCAA even though he's not really exceptional...

 

[Jack Bauer]

So he is feeling self entitled and acting like a spoiled brat and talking his ball and going home, because he should have been allowed to play in the AHL as a 19 year old.. who knew.

Yes, that's word for word what I said

Why is it so laughable to suggest that a different path may have resulted in a more favorable situation? It's not all that hard to see.

And he's just 1 example.

 

[Jerkini]

Why the AHL, there is nothing exceptional about playing in that league? The only distinction difference is the age of the players.

The exceptional rule is to allow Connor McDavid, Aaron Ekblad, John Tavares and all other 18/19 year old kids etc (ie. exceptional players) to play in the NHL early, and not need to be forced back to CHL due to age restrictions. McDavid, Ekblad, Tavares gained exceptional status into the CHL at age 15, and then by that same rule gain exceptional status into the NHL.

Leafs are sending Marner back to OHL by their choice believing he isn't ready.. They could keep him with the NHL team and apply the same exceptional status rule to him to prevent him from going back to junior by the current eligibility rule.

I'm confused. How does this allow those guys to play in the NHL early? It doesn't affect their NHL draft status.

 

[Mess]

It's been in the best interest of Nylander so far.

Why treat him differently because of where he was drafted from?

Because there is no similar agreement between European club teams and the NHL.

Modo of the SEL can't prevent Nylander from leaving his home country to pursue his dream of playing in the NHL as long as he isn't under contract to them. Modo is a professional men's league in another country and has no bearing on the NHL. The NHL does have transfer agreement (player rights) rules where European clubs teams receive $$ financial compensation for the loss of its players to NA (NHL or AHL).

The CHL/NHL age rule exists for the protection of the CHL and its league.. The CHL is not impacted by Nylander at 19 playing in the AHL as he was never a part of the CHL to begin with. CHL team is also not financially rewarded with a transfer agreement cheque to allow its players to leave the league early to play in the AHL.

Its not about the age the player its about player rights here that is the key point of the existing rule.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I'm confused. How does this allow those guys to play in the NHL early? It doesn't affect their NHL draft status.

Honestly, all it does it take away their NCAA eligibility earlier by letting them play CHL. That's the real reason for letting them in.

Ironically though it also allows them to play AHL at....19.

 

[diceman934]

It's been in the best interest of Nylander so far.

Why treat him differently because of where he was drafted from?

Remember this is an NHL/CHL rule and not an AHL rule.

 

[Fogelhund]

Why the AHL, there is nothing exceptional about playing in that league? The only distinction difference is the age of the players.

The exceptional rule is to allow Connor McDavid, Aaron Ekblad, John Tavares and all other 18/19 year old kids etc (ie. exceptional players) to play in the NHL early, and not need to be forced back to CHL due to age restrictions. McDavid, Ekblad, Tavares gained exceptional status into the CHL at age 15, and then by that same rule gain exceptional status into the NHL.

Leafs are sending Marner back to OHL by their choice believing he isn't ready.. They could keep him with the NHL team and apply the same exceptional status rule to him to prevent him from going back to junior by the current eligibility rule.

There is no exceptional rule that allows players in to play in the NHL... It is either CHL, or NHL for CHL kids.. Euros and Americans or NCAA players are exempt... they just follow the path of development that suits the player best.

The AHL is simply another development league, a clear step up from Juniors, some argue the second best league in the world, though in all probability more like fourth or fifth... maybe.

The main point is this rule runs contrary to everything about LTPD, and Hockey Canada's mandate. This is a decision to help the coffers of the CHL.

 

[diceman934]

I'm confused. How does this allow those guys to play in the NHL early? It doesn't affect their NHL draft status.

They are allowed to play in the NHL the year of their draft if they are good enough to do so....there by avoiding playing out their Jr eligibility = Exceptional status

 

[Jack Bauer]

Because there is no similar agreement between European club teams and the NHL.

Modo of the SEL can't prevent Nylander from leaving his home country to pursue his dream of playing in the NHL as long as he isn't under contract to them.

The CHL/NHL age rule exists for the protection of the CHL and its league.. The CHL is not impacted by Nylander at 19 playing in the AHL as he was never a part of the CHL to begin with.

Its not about the age the player its about player rights here that is the key point of the existing rule.

Not sure why we're letting Europeans have a different, perhaps better, development path then our own just to encourage the CHL to be as deep as possible then turn around and tell European goaltenders that they're not even eligible to play CHL.

So we want to weak our talent pool of goaltenders but hold back our exceptional players. There's some flaws in that logic.

 

[Ovate]

I don't believe in a limited number of exemptions, or exemptions based on what round they're picked in. Any solution that has many players getting exemptions will hurt the CHL badly, so that's right out.

I'm ok with guys like Marner and Drouin having to spend their post-draft year in the CHL, even if they absolutely dominate it. What I don't like is that they would also have to spend their draft + 2 year as well. This is clearly a waste, so their NHL team calls them up to the big leagues as they can't be sent to the AHL. Lose-lose. The CHL still doesn't keep their player, but the prospect's development is limited.

The simple solution is for all prospects to be eligible for the AHL if they turn 20 that draft year instead of the calendar year the season starts in. All players in the same draft have the same options. The impact on the CHL is tiny. It only removes the players who are drafted by the NHL, born between January and August, and who are clearly too good for the CHL. That's a handful players a year, max. The CHL still gets all NHL drafted players for their post-draft year.

 

[Jack Bauer]

They are allowed to play in the NHL the year of their draft if they are good enough to do so....there by avoiding playing out their Jr eligibility = Exceptional status

Not exactly.

Anyone drafted can go right to the NHL.

Exceptional players who play at 15 in the CHL can play AHL at 19 is really the biggest advantage they have other non-exceptional CHL players.

 

[thewave]

I agree. Take care of your own first. I'm not in a place to question what rules they have in place though, and won't pretend to be.

CHL imports are criminal. They advance level of comp but discourage a lot of Canadian players. The better the odds the more kids play and push themselves.

I also miss the aspect of foreign talent playing a more unique game to their geographic location. It adds more to the NHL.

Also increases opportunities or odds for teams to select good picks later in the draft.

AHL, 19 should be fine.

 

[Mess]

I'm confused. How does this allow those guys to play in the NHL early? It doesn't affect their NHL draft status.

The exceptional status rule into the CHL at age 15 gives that league itself an additional year of service to exceptional players that they know they will lose to the NHL at age 18.

Connor McDavid, Aaron Ekblad, John Tavares etc that all received exceptional status & got to play and promote the CHL for 3 years (age 15, 16 & 17) before they were drafted and lost due to exceptional players joining the NHL @18 and not being returned to junior clubs.

Without the exceptional status rule exemption the CHL would only have players like McDavid or Tavares for 2 seasons instead of 3 before losing them to the NHL.

However that exceptional NHL status rule exists only if they chose to keep them in the NHL upon being drafted, or they go back to their junior club teams just like any other player due to the CHL team owning that player rights until age 20.

We are talking about the health of the CHL and what is best for this development league by this rights rule between the NHL and the CHL. The CHL has ZERO interest in any AHL and CHL exceptional rule as that only wakens the CHL by losing its best players early with no advantage to their own league.

 

[diceman934]

Not exactly.

Anyone drafted can go right to the NHL.

Exceptional players who play at 15 in the CHL can play AHL at 19 is really the biggest advantage they have other non-exceptional CHL players.

Skill and maturity is the determining factor for Jr eligible players to play in the NHL..

It is semantics, I know but the same none the less. Players need to play out their Jr eligibility before playing Pro hockey unless they are good enough to play in the NHL. The rule is in place to protect the CHL who invest time and money on players and to protect the NHL from playing all drafted players into the AHL or other Leagues like they do in baseball.

 

[Jack Bauer]

CHL imports are criminal. They advance level of comp but discourage a lot of Canadian players. The better the odds the more kids play and push themselves.

I also miss the aspect of foreign talent playing a more unique game to their geographic location. It adds more to the NHL.

Also increases opportunities or odds for teams to select good picks later in the draft.

AHL, 19 should be fine.

Anyone who watches CHL regularly and takes in training camp at all would agree that all Imports are doing is pushing the Canadians down to Jr A who should be playing at a lower level and better developing their skills.

I look at my local team and laugh at the thought of any 2 local Canadian kids avoiding Jr A and being extra forwards/4th liners being better for the team and community then the 2 Russian stars.

 

[diceman934]

Ok should a Jr age eligible player be allowed to play in the ECHL rather than go back to Jr?

 

[BlueBaron]

The rule is there to protect the CHL teams....without the rule it would kill the CHL and remove the best development league for the NHL. So no change is need as most International players stay home until they are ready and most CHL player stay home.

I'm with the diceman on this. The CHL contributes more to the NHL than every other league combined, an extra year does not hurt the player and it helps their revenue. This is a selfish idea and I can't help but think this thread only exists because of Marner.

I would be curious to know how many players this has actually been an issue with in the last 10 years. This is the first time I recall it ever being an issue for us.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Skill and maturity is the determining factor for Jr eligible players to play in the NHL..

It is semantics, I know but the same none the less. Players need to play out their Jr eligibility before playing Pro hockey unless they are good enough to play in the NHL. The rule is in place to protect the CHL who invest time and money on players and to protect the NHL from playing all drafted players into the AHL or other Leagues like they do in baseball.

There's minor hockey systems that invest way more time and money in some of those kids then CHL teams do. Drouin played in Halifax for 1.5 seasons before being drafted. He showed up as a player with developed skills straight out of midget. That investment happens at more then the CHL level.

I agree there shouldn't be a free for all. Just an exceptional status where a top pick(maybe top 10 or 1st round) can play AHL earlier then everyone else. You can even cap it at 1 per organization.

Ironically that move could actually see overagers pushed back to Junior who may otherwise stick as a depth AHL forward which means the depth of the AHL would increase and the CHL could gain a pro player back to offset some of the skill loss in the league.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I'm with the diceman on this. The CHL contributes more to the NHL than every other league combined, an extra year does not hurt the player and it helps their revenue. This is a selfish idea and I can't help but think this thread only exists because of Marner.

I would be curious to know how many players this has actually been an issue with in the last 10 years. This is the first time I recall it ever being an issue for us.

How does this only exist because of Marner when some of us CHL fans have been asking for it for a decade or more?

 

[thewave]

Anyone who watches CHL regularly and takes in training camp at all would agree that all Imports are doing is pushing the Canadians down to Jr A who should be playing at a lower level and better developing their skills.

I look at my local team and laugh at the thought of any 2 local Canadian kids avoiding Jr A and being extra forwards/4th liners being better for the team and community then the 2 Russian stars.

I get that, I do. In the long run it will diminish our place in the hockey world. Look what it did to our tending... Nearly decimated it.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Ok should a Jr age eligible player be allowed to play in the ECHL rather than go back to Jr?

If they are AHL eligible then yes.