Rumor: Flyers working on Carter Hart trade

[04hockey]

One has to ask the simplest question In the world....

He's relatively young and if he's that good, why is Philly trading him if he can be their "franchise" goalie before he turns 30?

The fact that he hasn't been traded tells us that GMs don't think he's top 20 material.

that he played as well as he has with the Flyers D core shows he's most likely top TEN around the league ..... and still very young and healthy

 

[JRichard]

One has to ask the simplest question In the world....

He's relatively young and if he's that good, why is Philly trading him if he can be their "franchise" goalie before he turns 30?

The fact that he hasn't been traded tells us that GMs don't think he's top 20 material.

Philosophy classes used to teach people basic logic.

Philly is (trying) to trade him so not good.
Not traded so no good.

addiction to a team leads to this.

i’d say 5 teams would entertain dealing for Hart if price is right. Other teams have better/comparable goalies or are simply not contending. Plus those in cap hell. Price for Philly is likely picks and prospects. Kolosov signing should restart rumor mill.

Just in case: 5 teams interested doesnt mean he’s 27th best goalie in the league…

 

[JRichard]

Jets shouldn’t be wasting assets on more LHD… but Konecny + Hart package would fill needs in WPG

Prospects and picks would fill needs in PHI.
Thats high-end shopping though. Konecny more expensive than Sanheim was before his contract kicked in.

Mtl 2nd 24
Jets 1st 25

and give me names of 2 prospects/ young players Wpg could live without.

 

[TheKingPin]

Jets shouldn’t be wasting assets on more LHD… but Konecny + Hart package would fill needs in WPG

That would cost a lot. Do you guys have those kind of assets? I think 3 1sts and a 2nd?

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Flyers should have zero interest acquiring Hellebuyck... doesnt fit their time line at all

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Prospects and picks would fill needs in PHI.
Thats high-end shopping though. Konecny more expensive than Sanheim was before his contract kicked in.

Mtl 2nd 24
Jets 1st 25

and give me names of 2 prospects/ young players Wpg could live without.

That's quite a bit of cap going winnipeg way so pionk or Schmidt would need to be included. Jets can't take back all this cap if none going out

 

[ManofSteel55]

We already got Cal Petersen for that

No harm in doubling up.

Still doesn’t make Hart’s value a 1st++ or a potential “franchise” goalie. If anything, it dilutes his value by highlighting how volatile the position is. Why would you ever spend a 1st plus when you see goalies picked up for peanuts lead teams to the playoffs and beyond?

Because we also see contenders lose due to the failures of their goaltending.

 

[pacehimself]

Personally it sucks that we are going to move on from Hart. I have no doubt he is going to prosper on a more competitive team…he is going to be our next Bob…

So with that being said, it’s a no brainer for Philly to move on from him while they try to bottom out the next few years. I am sure they will get an adequate return when they move him. If goalie is your weakness, you have to be crazy not to try to acquire Hart if you have the opportunity.

Hopefully the hockey Canada report will be released soon. I don’t get why they are dragging there feet.

 

[RANKKA]

No harm in doubling up.

youre right but the 4years is little bit too much imo

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Because we also see contenders lose due to the failures of their goaltending.

Maybe if you're acquiring a goaltender with a sustained resume of elite play, a la Helleybuck or Saros, not a goaltender straddling league average for the majority of his career.

Personally, I'm not sinking the capital needed to acquire the player and cap hit at that level either. Too much variation in the position from year to year.

 

[JRichard]

That's quite a bit of cap going winnipeg way so pionk or Schmidt would need to be included. Jets can't take back all this cap if none going out

Maybe thats the problem on the Jets side. You cant expect Philly to pay a 31 yrs old d with 2 yrs at 5.9 while dealing Konecny at 5.5 UNLESS the return is worth it meaning top prospects like Roger McG and-or Lambert. Vilardi maybe?

a 3rd team could eat some salary with the Jets paying them to do so.

 

[BatVader]

Prospects and picks would fill needs in PHI.
Thats high-end shopping though. Konecny more expensive than Sanheim was before his contract kicked in.

Mtl 2nd 24
Jets 1st 25

and give me names of 2 prospects/ young players Wpg could live without.

I’m thinking Harkins, Heinola, and McGroarty and Flyers take Schmidt and his remaining 2 years

Jets could move Schmidt separately if PHI isn’t willing to take him on, but that removes McG or replaces him in the return with a lesser prospect

 

[JRichard]

I’m thinking Harkins, Heinola, and McGroarty and Flyers take Schmidt and his remaining 2 years

Jets could move Schmidt separately if PHI isn’t willing to take him on, but that removes McG or replaces him in the return with a lesser prospect

Isnt Harkins like 26? Him and Heinola i dont like at all for a Konecny and hart deal.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Maybe if you're acquiring a goaltender with a sustained resume of elite play, a la Helleybuck or Saros, not a goaltender straddling league average for the majority of his career.

Personally, I'm not sinking the capital needed to acquire the player and cap hit at that level either. Too much variation in the position from year to year.

A Saros or Helleybuck are going to cost an awful lot more than a guy like Hart who hasn't had that level of success.

Scouts look for more than stat lines and win-loss records. They and GMs are also notoriously arrogant in that they believe they can help guys reach another level or can get them to fit better in their system. It's fair, it happens a lot, especially when the player in question is going from a bad team to a good one. Hart isn't perfect. He isn't a guaranteed Vezina contender or anything, but he is an upgrade in net for a few contending teams whose goaltending has let them down.

The issue isn't finding teams that would want him. It's finding a team who would want/need him, who can fit him under the cap, while offering up something that makes it worthwhile for Philly to do the deal.

 

[Petes2424]

Lmao. What an obtuse post. I’m not rehashing this all again but compare his career to date at his age to other goalies and there’s fantastic names on there.

Obtuse?? Lol. You’re just ignoring reality. There are no goaltenders who’ve mirrored Carter Hart from 20-25 years old, who were ever traded for a significant price. Not in the midst of a 3 year, 130 game, .900 save percentage.

The absolute closest comparison to Hart, is Matt Murray.

A goaltender who also had early success, looking the part (of a budding star) at 22 years old. His extended save percentage was even better than Hart’s. He too seemed to hit a wall though, and after about 18 months of being mediocre, was traded at 26 years old. Only a year older than Hart will be in a month..

By far, the closest comparison to Hart’s personal situation.

I’m sorry, as I don’t mean to be “obtuse”, but what team paid a high price for Murray??Ottawa, just like any team who would trade for Hart today, bought low. A 2nd Round pick.

That’s about what Hart is worth if he was traded right now.

A closer example simply doesn’t exist.

The reality is, if the Flyers were being offered significant prices when they were trying to trade him last month, they would’ve pulled the trigger.

Until he shows he’s returned to form, over at least a 50 game stretch, nobody is paying more than they paid for Matt Murray. They’re just not. This isn’t a video game. Teams don’t pay big prices for hope. They buy low.

If that’s “Obtuse” to say, than so be it… it’s the reality.

 

[Fantomas]

Flyers should tank and not just this coming season. Tank until Michkov comes.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Flyers should tank and not just this coming season. Tank until Michkov comes.

That's the plan pretty much...but also part of the plan is trading pieces away for good value.

I suspect that's why Sanheim, Hart, Laughton, and Konecny are still on the roster.

 

[Huffer]

I’m thinking Harkins, Heinola, and McGroarty and Flyers take Schmidt and his remaining 2 years

Jets could move Schmidt separately if PHI isn’t willing to take him on, but that removes McG or replaces him in the return with a lesser prospect

0 interest at all in moving McGroarty.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

No harm in doubling up.


Because we also see contenders lose due to the failures of their goaltending.

Ya but a first or lots of money isn't gonna guarantee you even get competent goaltending.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

A Saros or Helleybuck are going to cost an awful lot more than a guy like Hart who hasn't had that level of success.

Scouts look for more than stat lines and win-loss records. They and GMs are also notoriously arrogant in that they believe they can help guys reach another level or can get them to fit better in their system. It's fair, it happens a lot, especially when the player in question is going from a bad team to a good one. Hart isn't perfect. He isn't a guaranteed Vezina contender or anything, but he is an upgrade in net for a few contending teams whose goaltending has let them down.

The issue isn't finding teams that would want him. It's finding a team who would want/need him, who can fit him under the cap, while offering up something that makes it worthwhile for Philly to do the deal.

How much more than a 1st and a top prospect, the cost floated in this thread for Hart, do you think they cost?

I really don’t think he’s much of an upgrade for most contending teams, honestly. For example in New Jersey, I don’t think he’s a big upgrade on Vanecek/Schmid. Certainly not factoring in the cost of acquiring him. I’d say he falls more under “reclamation project” than “gearing up for the playoffs”.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Ya but a first or lots of money isn't gonna guarantee you even get competent goaltending.

I'm an Oilers fan. You don't need to explain to me how high priced goaltending can fail. Cough, Campbell, cough.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

I wonder if they are waiting until the case with Samsonov is finished. A trade of Samsonov+Murray+Robertson for Hart+pick makes sense

 

[BatVader]

0 interest at all in moving McGroarty.

Really… I’d move him in a heartbeat for a Konecny + Hart package
Chevy screwed that draft pick

 

[JRichard]

0 interest at all in moving McGroarty.

You think Philly has any interest in getting Haskins, Heinola and Schmidt?

 

[Huffer]

Really… I’d move him in a heartbeat for a Konecny + Hart package
Chevy screwed that draft pick

We'll have to see what plays out for Hart off the ice before any trade is likely made anywhere. As for TK, I like him as well and thought he would have been a nice add before. But if we're trading Scheifele and/or Hellebucyk, it's very likely we're not competing in his 2 year contract time frame.

We'll also have to see about McGroarty in the next few years. Hard to say at this point, but he was excellent in the Development camp and is looking like the type of player that brings a lot to the table even if he's not a huge point producer.

You think Philly has any interest in getting Haskins, Heinola and Schmidt?

Never said that, just that I have no interest in dealing McGroarty.