News Article: Fluto: Poor drafting has been holding Bruins back

Eddie Munson

This year is my year. I can feel it. ‘86 baby!
Jul 11, 2008
6,611
1,795
Bruins draft were golden from 2003 to 2006. That gave them a Cup. Since 2007 it's been really bad. Seguin and Hamilton don't really coutn beause those pick were so obvious anyone here would have made them.

2003 to 2006:
Bergeron
Stuart (doesn't look good but still had a good career)
Thompson
Krejci
Versteeg
Hunwick
Sobotka
Kessel (ok, obvious too)
Lucic
Marchand

4 drafts 10 guys who have real NHL career. 8 of those 10 guys selected after the 1st round ...

That is impressive! No one could possibly keep up that pace but the following 8 years so far have been abysmal to say the least.

I found with Chiarelli there was such a disconnect between team mentality and players drafted. How many times can you try and hammer a square peg through a round hole before you go for the round peg? I'm hoping Sweeney gets this as I really like the players he snagged last draft.
 

FONZIE

AYYYYYY!!!!
Sponsor
Aug 25, 2006
3,539
823
Moved to Wisconsin
03-Bergeron (steal)
04-Krejci (steal)
06-Kessel (gimme) -Lucic (steal)-Marchand (steal)
10-Seguin (gimme)-Spooner (good)
11-Hamilton (gimme)
14-Pasta (steal)
 

reffree

Registered User
Apr 24, 2003
2,413
2
ste-justine québec
Visit site
That is impressive! No one could possibly keep up that pace but the following 8 years so far have been abysmal to say the least.

I found with Chiarelli there was such a disconnect between team mentality and players drafted. How many times can you try and hammer a square peg through a round hole before you go for the round peg? I'm hoping Sweeney gets this as I really like the players he snagged last draft.

Yeah, that wasn't sustainable, but those four years gave us the core of a team who won the Cup and was a top team in the league for 6 years (2009-2014). And even if they were not a top team in 2008, it was sure a fun team to watch with all those young kids, and even if they didn't made the playoff the last two years, the potential is still there to make noise.

All those top team have a sequence of 4-5 years of great drafting creating a core and then building arround it.

Pittsburg: 2003-05: Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Fleury, Goligoski
Chicago: 2002-07: Seabrook, Keith, Teows, Kane, Byfuglien, Brower, Hjalmarsson, Bolland
Los Angeles: 2005-08: Kopitar, Quick, Simmonds, Doughty, Martinez, Voynov
Boston: 2003-06: Bergeron, Krejci, Kessel, Lucic, Marchand, Versteeg, Stuart

That's your last 7 Cups champions ...
 

81ragnaH

Registered User
May 29, 2007
2,898
11
Lynn, MA
Defense doesn't win championships. That's nothing more than a long standing myth. It really takes a mix of defense and offense. Besides, anomalies can happen from time to time, but if you go back through recent cup winners, they all had elite offensive players.

Not sure I agree with this. I already mentioned the Bruins not having elite O. The Kings didn't (Kopitar = Bergeron) but they had Doughty. The Hawks did (Kane) but also had elite D (Keith). How about the Ducks, who had Pronger, but no elite offensive forwards. I'm not sure I'd call Datsyuk elite offensively in 2008, again, he was in the defensive mold. But they did have Lidstrom.

So that leaves the Penguins, who are the anomaly due to their generationally elite offensive players. Not sure the data supports your hypothesis. Since the only other team that had elite O also had elite D.

Like BofJ said, the Bruins had players playing at an elite level, and the others did as well. But that is not an elite player. Obviously you need to score, you need offense and balance. But elite D begin and produce offense. The reverse is not always the case...I don't necessarily want Kane protecting a 1 goal lead late in the third, give me Toews instead. Your claim that you "need elite offensive talent" I'd say is the myth, since most of the recent cup winners haven't had it.
 

LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
50,516
22,024
Central MA
Not sure I agree with this. I already mentioned the Bruins not having elite O. The Kings didn't (Kopitar = Bergeron) but they had Doughty. The Hawks did (Kane) but also had elite D (Keith). How about the Ducks, who had Pronger, but no elite offensive forwards. I'm not sure I'd call Datsyuk elite offensively in 2008, again, he was in the defensive mold. But they did have Lidstrom.

So that leaves the Penguins, who are the anomaly due to their generationally elite offensive players. Not sure the data supports your hypothesis. Since the only other team that had elite O also had elite D.

Like BofJ said, the Bruins had players playing at an elite level, and the others did as well. But that is not an elite player. Obviously you need to score, you need offense and balance. But elite D begin and produce offense. The reverse is not always the case...I don't necessarily want Kane protecting a 1 goal lead late in the third, give me Toews instead. Your claim that you "need elite offensive talent" I'd say is the myth, since most of the recent cup winners haven't had it.

You don't consider a guy like Kopitar, who is barely below a PPG for his career to be an elite scorer? Really??? And the Ducks had Selanne who scored 48 goals that year. Is that not elite? Not to mention they also had Perry and Getz, even if they weren't what they are today. I mean you say Datsyuk wasn't elite, but he had 31 goals and 97 points that year, and Zetterberg had 43 goals and 92 points, ffs. Isn't that elite?
The only team that really falls outside of the elite forward and strong d mix from the recent past is the Canes, but Staal had 45 goals that year and a hundred points, and 3 other guys score over 30 each, so its really not even them, is it? :laugh:
 

nmbr_24

Registered User
Jun 8, 2003
12,864
2
Visit site
Boston's had a lot over the past decade. Even this year they had Pastrnak, Spooner, Connolly, Vatrano, Ferraro, Acciari, Randell, C. Miller, K. Miller, Morrow, Trotman - making peanuts. Not a great group but ...

They went a year or so without being able to plug holes with young impact talent but we were spoiled beforehand... as they had Krejci, Marchand, Lucic, Kessel, Seguin, R. Smith, Soderbergh, Boychuk, McQuaid, Krug, Thomas, Rask, etc. on ELCs but became victims of their own success and earning (or going to earn) more money.

The Bruins are more a victim of the drop in oil prices = Canadian dollar = salary cap stagnating than a lack of affordable young talent. Look at some of the line-ups they've had over the past decade. It's a lot more surprising they could fit them under the cap in the first place.

Not a great group and not one of them were drafted on Chiarelli's watch except for Spooner and then Pastrnak after Chiarelli had to fire the scouting staff because of their draft record. Their is a gap there where the well went dry and that is the problem. Most likely they could have kept Boychuk if they had talent that could have displaced a couple of veterans. Paying everyone on the bottom line and guys like Kelly and Seidenberg millions of dollars made for a good bottom line until Campbell and Paille's game really seemed to fall off of a cliff but it also took away from paying other more worthy players more and just maybe being able to keep Boychuk if desired.

Seidenberg's play has been a problem since 2012, even Seidenberg said his play was not up to par since then. Just imagine if they had someone to replace him and were able to keep Boychuk, that makes a world of difference to this Bruins team. Maybe it doesn't win them a cup but have a very strong feeling that they would not have missed the playoffs either of the past two years if that was the case.
 

b in vancouver

Registered User
Jul 28, 2005
7,846
5,698
That is impressive! No one could possibly keep up that pace but the following 8 years so far have been abysmal to say the least.

I found with Chiarelli there was such a disconnect between team mentality and players drafted. How many times can you try and hammer a square peg through a round hole before you go for the round peg? I'm hoping Sweeney gets this as I really like the players he snagged last draft.

I'm not trying to defend the drafting - but I find it simplistic to blame the B's fall from a perennial powerhouse on it.
I'm not saying it's great. It's not shining, I agree, but I'll stick with my point that compared to the other top 10 teams they actually did better than most. People say Sequin and Hamilton were gimmes but wash over that they traded away three first rounders during that span and that goalies take awhile to develop but Subban looks promising, Colborne has a career, Caron played despite it being a weak draft, so that leaves Hamill. That's your first rounders. That's it.

Seguin, Hamilton, Pastrnak, Spooner, Colborne, Hutchinson, Caron - is simply more than most of the other top teams brought in (unless they had a 'tank' year - which Boston never) - if you add in college FA signings like Wheeler and Krug - it becomes comparable to some of the bottom feeder teams.



I agree about the disconnect part. I really liked the style of player that Sweeney targeted this past draft.
 

81ragnaH

Registered User
May 29, 2007
2,898
11
Lynn, MA
You don't consider a guy like Kopitar, who is barely below a PPG for his career to be an elite scorer? Really??? And the Ducks had Selanne who scored 48 goals that year. Is that not elite? Not to mention they also had Perry and Getz, even if they weren't what they are today. I mean you say Datsyuk wasn't elite, but he had 31 goals and 97 points that year, and Zetterberg had 43 goals and 92 points, ffs. Isn't that elite?
The only team that really falls outside of the elite forward and strong d mix from the recent past is the Canes, but Staal had 45 goals that year and a hundred points, and 3 other guys score over 30 each, so its really not even them, is it? :laugh:

Yeah, I mean stats seem legit...I guess it's one's definition of elite. Small category (Kane, Crosby, Seguin) in my book, maybe the top 5-10 scorers in the league consistently. Wouldn't put Kopitar or Datsyuk in their cup years there, not to put them down, they're both great players.. You got me on Selanne I guess, didn't realize that was his 48 goal year. Nevertheless, they didn't win on the strength of the offense. Not to mention, by that point in his career, I wouldn't consider him an elite player. Alex Steen led the league in scoring for half of last season. Jiri Hudler was a top 10 scorer last year. Neither are elite players, just they had elite years (or, parts of years). I stand by my defense statement. You can absolutely win without an elite forward, I'm not convinced you can without an elite D in today's NHL.

We agree on the mix. We disagree on how to mix it.
 

LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
50,516
22,024
Central MA
Yeah, I mean stats seem legit...I guess it's one's definition of elite. Small category (Kane, Crosby, Seguin) in my book, maybe the top 5-10 scorers in the league consistently. Wouldn't put Kopitar or Datsyuk in their cup years there, not to put them down, they're both great players.. You got me on Selanne I guess, didn't realize that was his 48 goal year. Nevertheless, they didn't win on the strength of the offense. Not to mention, by that point in his career, I wouldn't consider him an elite player. Alex Steen led the league in scoring for half of last season. Jiri Hudler was a top 10 scorer last year. Neither are elite players, just they had elite years (or, parts of years). I stand by my defense statement. You can absolutely win without an elite forward, I'm not convinced you can without an elite D in today's NHL.

We agree on the mix. We disagree on how to mix it.

Fair enough. To me, anyone who has multiple years of 30 or more goals or is nearly a PPG player for their career is what I'd call an elite offensive player. Guys like Crosby, Ove, etc are what I'd call generational type of player. But again, the real key is a mix of good d with good offense. Without that, you won't win many games let alone a cup.
 

Tampbear

Registered User
Apr 10, 2015
1,662
389
Tampa
That is impressive! No one could possibly keep up that pace but the following 8 years so far have been abysmal to say the least.

I found with Chiarelli there was such a disconnect between team mentality and players drafted. How many times can you try and hammer a square peg through a round hole before you go for the round peg? I'm hoping Sweeney gets this as I really like the players he snagged last draft.

The idea for Chiarelli initially was find the most skilled player available and teach them the D necessary, I think they may have been a bit inspired by Savard and felt the NHL was moving to being faster and more skilled. Unfortunately it took years to see it play out so poorly, but to his credit he did fix the drafting before he left, his last draft was absolutely great. Sweeney had the benefit of seeing Chiarelli going through all of this.
 

vjcsmoke

Registered User
Jun 29, 2011
1,194
111
Yes, we've sucked at drafting. Yes, this has hurt our depth.
Yes, it caught up to us eventually.

Hopefully, we have improved at drafting.
Pastrnak was the last 'hit' we've landed on in a while.

Hopefully 2015 was a good draft and we get at least a couple of starters out of it, because when you expend 3 1st round picks, you better get something out of it!!

2016 is a new draft year, I believe our priority should be moving up to select a blue chip defenseman. We don't have that top pairing blueliner to take over for Chara yet imo.
 

ODAAT

Registered User
Oct 17, 2006
52,283
20,511
Victoria BC
Not willing to say the B`s, under Sweeney suck at drafting, year one of his picks less than a summer ago, 2nd draft coming, going to be a while before I`ll be ready to make exclamations of his scouting staff being either geniuses or otherwise
 

b in vancouver

Registered User
Jul 28, 2005
7,846
5,698
The idea for Chiarelli initially was find the most skilled player available and teach them the D necessary, I think they may have been a bit inspired by Savard and felt the NHL was moving to being faster and more skilled. Unfortunately it took years to see it play out so poorly, but to his credit he did fix the drafting before he left, his last draft was absolutely great. Sweeney had the benefit of seeing Chiarelli going through all of this.

I fell into that trap also - but that's why I'm wary now of players like Barzal that are tearing it up.
Personally at the time I really liked the Hamill pick, and thought for a few years that he was going to put it all together. The kid was a great junior player. Hockey IQ that you can't teach.
I know some people wanted Couture but it was actually Sam Gagner that most everyone was clamouring for. Another player that shows how hard it is to find that prototypical 2nd line centre.
 

GoBs

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
7,978
3,759
USA
03-Bergeron
04-Krejci
06-Kessel-Lucic-Marchand
10-Seguin-Spooner
11-Hamilton
14-Pasta

Not many hits since Bergy. The last few years too early to call.

Looking at the names I listed, Shows how much only one hit can improve your team.

Too bad they traded almost half your list.
 

GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
44,395
13,873
The Sticks (West MA)
I fell into that trap also - but that's why I'm wary now of players like Barzal that are tearing it up.
Personally at the time I really liked the Hamill pick, and thought for a few years that he was going to put it all together. The kid was a great junior player. Hockey IQ that you can't teach.
I know some people wanted Couture but it was actually Sam Gagner that most everyone was clamouring for. Another player that shows how hard it is to find that prototypical 2nd line centre.

Saw Hamill play quite a bit his rookie year in the AHL and when I realized he was the 5th best F (behind Marchand, Sobotka, Lehtonen, MSP), I didn't have a good feeling about it. I was hoping that I was wrong about him.

Before we say that the B's missed on Barzal and Connor, let's see how all these guys pan out as pros.
 

Tampbear

Registered User
Apr 10, 2015
1,662
389
Tampa
I fell into that trap also - but that's why I'm wary now of players like Barzal that are tearing it up.
Personally at the time I really liked the Hamill pick, and thought for a few years that he was going to put it all together. The kid was a great junior player. Hockey IQ that you can't teach.
I know some people wanted Couture but it was actually Sam Gagner that most everyone was clamouring for. Another player that shows how hard it is to find that prototypical 2nd line centre.

Saw Hamill play quite a bit his rookie year in the AHL and when I realized he was the 5th best F (behind Marchand, Sobotka, Lehtonen, MSP), I didn't have a good feeling about it. I was hoping that I was wrong about him.

Before we say that the B's missed on Barzal and Connor, let's see how all these guys pan out as pros.

I honestly have higher expectations for the guys selected in the last two years being able to transition to the pro leagues, the NHL didn't move in the direction of Buffalo in 05/06 and frankly we have a better rate of success with players that fit the system. I really wanted Connor and White, but I definitely see the reasoning for each player, and don't have trouble seeing how they fit in with the team.
 

Wonder Boy

Cam 'n' Cam
Mar 25, 2004
3,002
0
Ancaster, Ontario
Clearly BJ, Lawrence, Ron and I did not buy Jeff Gorton and Cam Neely enough drinks at the 2007 draft in Columbus. I remember BJ and Lawrence wanting Michal Repik in the second round and I wanted PK Subban.

Neely and Gorton even came over to our table to thank us for buying them drinks...and my response..."It's going to cost you, we get to decide the 2nd pick tomorrow."

Neely laughed and asked who we liked and we told them.

Of course they ended up making a trade with Chicago to move up to select Tommy Cross.

They should have listened, and asked us who we liked for the remainder of the 2007 draft, because next to 1996 it is the 2nd worst B's draft in the last 20 years.

I even remember telling Gorton I hated the Hamill pick, after he asked what I thought about the pick. He asked who I would have taken and I said Brandon Sutter. He said that would be wasting a top 10 pick on a 3rd line Center.

:shakehead

Don Sweeney never came over to thank us for the drinks we bought him. He sat at a table in the corner and waited for Neely and Gorton to be finished with us.
 

2yrs2retire

Registered User
Apr 7, 2013
6
3
He wasn't dominant, but he was definitely a part of them winning it.

If you mean by "he was definitely a part of them winning it" that he skated around in a Bruins jersey then ok but no, he nothing to do with the cup win.
 

Mpasta

Registered User
Oct 6, 2008
5,804
722
If you mean by "he was definitely a part of them winning it" that he skated around in a Bruins jersey then ok but no, he nothing to do with the cup win.

Yea, I've heard people say that we wouldn't have won it if he wasn't on the team. :laugh:
 

jgatie

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Sep 22, 2011
11,469
12,049
If you mean by "he was definitely a part of them winning it" that he skated around in a Bruins jersey then ok but no, he nothing to do with the cup win.

He was tied for first in points for Bruins defensemen in the playoffs. He certainly had some impact. But don't let that ruin a good rant.
 

Jean_Jacket41

Neely = HOF
Jun 25, 2003
25,621
13,971
With the smurfs
Clearly BJ, Lawrence, Ron and I did not buy Jeff Gorton and Cam Neely enough drinks at the 2007 draft in Columbus. I remember BJ and Lawrence wanting Michal Repik in the second round and I wanted PK Subban.

Neely and Gorton even came over to our table to thank us for buying them drinks...and my response..."It's going to cost you, we get to decide the 2nd pick tomorrow."

Neely laughed and asked who we liked and we told them.

Of course they ended up making a trade with Chicago to move up to select Tommy Cross.

They should have listened, and asked us who we liked for the remainder of the 2007 draft, because next to 1996 it is the 2nd worst B's draft in the last 20 years.

I even remember telling Gorton I hated the Hamill pick, after he asked what I thought about the pick. He asked who I would have taken and I said Brandon Sutter. He said that would be wasting a top 10 pick on a 3rd line Center.

:shakehead

Don Sweeney never came over to thank us for the drinks we bought him. He sat at a table in the corner and waited for Neely and Gorton to be finished with us.

Good story. And sad.
 

BruinDust

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
24,441
22,017
Clearly BJ, Lawrence, Ron and I did not buy Jeff Gorton and Cam Neely enough drinks at the 2007 draft in Columbus. I remember BJ and Lawrence wanting Michal Repik in the second round and I wanted PK Subban.

Neely and Gorton even came over to our table to thank us for buying them drinks...and my response..."It's going to cost you, we get to decide the 2nd pick tomorrow."

Neely laughed and asked who we liked and we told them.

Of course they ended up making a trade with Chicago to move up to select Tommy Cross.

They should have listened, and asked us who we liked for the remainder of the 2007 draft, because next to 1996 it is the 2nd worst B's draft in the last 20 years.

I even remember telling Gorton I hated the Hamill pick, after he asked what I thought about the pick. He asked who I would have taken and I said Brandon Sutter. He said that would be wasting a top 10 pick on a 3rd line Center.

:shakehead

Don Sweeney never came over to thank us for the drinks we bought him. He sat at a table in the corner and waited for Neely and Gorton to be finished with us.

Well he wasn't exactly wrong about that part.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad