Post-Game Talk: Flames @ Sharks (2/11/16)

[DystopianTierney]

Personally, I don't mind spreading out the talent, as long as the complimentary players can keep up, which I think Wingels can, or at least has been able to do for the past ten or so games.

I honestly would have agreed with that last season, but Wingels has been a puck deterrent for me this year. Better lately, but still a step down from what he was over the past few seasons. Maybe he turns it on down the stretch, but I expected a lot more from him after the new contract.

Maybe but Marleau and Ward play more even strength time than Couture's line. It just depends on who is the third wheel from one shift to the next. So there is clearly a 1st line with Jumbo's line, clearly a 2nd line in terms of how much they're played, and a clear 3rd line. The roles are just different between Marleau-Ward and Couture's line. Couture's line is better suited for 3rd line time and competition because they slaughter it most of the time and produce. You need that and Marleau-Ward is generally shutdown.

Problem is.... Marleau and Ward couldn't shutdown a PC together. I really don't like Marleau at center, but i guess when the team is winning...

Stalock has to be kidding:

Postgame - "We knew they were going to come out ready after what happened to them last game. They came out and got some bounces and took a big lead going into intermission. Needed to stand tall in the second and third and give our team a chance, and I tried to do that"

Down 4-1 at first period due to "some bounces". Get the **** out. As for standing tall in the 2nd and 3rd - you faced a total of 13 shots in the those periods combined.

First thing Braun said in the interview in the dressing room was admitting his poor play...

A bit of a difference in terms of accepting responsibility for play.

Loved it from Braun.

Honestly, I only really had a problem with the 4th goal for Stalock. Goals 1 & 2 were 100% on Braun.

That being said, Stalock has run out of excuses at the NHL level. Either he starts making some game impacting saves, or he's not going to be in the NHL next season. Certainly won't be back in SJ. Been cheering for him ever since his injury, but he straight blew it the last two seasons.

 

[Grave]

Stalock makes me wish we had Greiss back.

Fun game to watch, happy with the point considering they didn't deserve to win after dropping 4 in the 1st.

 

[Alwalys]

Honestly, I only really had a problem with the 4th goal for Stalock. Goals 1 & 2 were 100% on Braun.

Both of those goals practically went through stalock. A defenseman mistake does not excuse a goaltending failure. Goaltenders are there to stop the goal after defensemen make mistakes.

 

[Anomie2029]

Loved it from Braun.

Honestly, I only really had a problem with the 4th goal for Stalock. Goals 1 & 2 were 100% on Braun.

That being said, Stalock has run out of excuses at the NHL level. Either he starts making some game impacting saves, or he's not going to be in the NHL next season. Certainly won't be back in SJ. Been cheering for him ever since his injury, but he straight blew it the last two seasons.

Braun had a bad turnover for goal one, but it was still a shot that I would have liked to seen get stopped. 2nd - yes a deflection, but he needed to cover the bottom of the net better. He dropped down in butterfly but left a nice gap. 3rd he overcommitted to one side.. Wish D stopped the pass.
That fourth goal... Jesus mother of god. How many times can one person get out of position.

The shootout goals, definitely not good but that's the shoot out...

The fact is he had the lowest SV% of a sharks goalie from the last 50 years (who played at least 55 minutes). That is awful.

 

[DystopianTierney]

Both of those goals practically went through stalock. A defenseman mistake does not excuse a goaltending failure. Goaltenders are there to stop the goal after defensemen make mistakes.

1. Braun turns puck over > Backs up (along with Vlasic) and lets forward enter the slot with speed > Gets used as a screen and puck is shot through him (also gets deflected).

2. Braun plays forward for the Flames and deflects a shot through Stalock (some bad luck for Braun and Stalock).

If Jones lets those in (and he has...) you're not flaming him. But again, all of that said, Stalock has to come up with a few of those because his larger body of work looks like utter ****. You can't give up 5 when you're not coming back with a shutout the next game.

Braun had a bad turnover for goal one, but it was still a shot that I would have liked to seen get stopped. 2nd - yes a deflection, but he needed to cover the bottom of the net better. He dropped down in butterfly but left a nice gap. 3rd he overcommitted to one side.. Wish D stopped the pass.
That fourth goal... Jesus mother of god. How many times can one person get out of position.

The shootout goals, definitely not good but that's the shoot out...

The fact is he had the lowest SV% of a sharks goalie from the last 50 years (who played at least 55 minutes). That is awful.

I'm not defending him. I guess i am if i'm defending the shots and blaming Braun? idk

The Gaudreau stop was LOL.

Hudler is putting that home on most starters.

Ugly stat for Stalock. He has been terrible. I wasn't confident when I heard he was starting tonight, that's for sure.

 

[Bleedred]

Also he achieved the lowest save percentage in a game by Sharks goalie who played at least 55 minutes in 50 years...

But the defence plays differently in front of him.

I think he's firmly made it to the worst goaltender in the league by this point.

At least the worst full time NHL goaltender. There might be a couple of worse guys that are called up here and there, and aren't on an NHL roster full time.

I thought Lindback was the worst, and no goaltender in the league has been as bad as Lindback in the last 3 or 4 years. But I don't think anyone has been as bad as Stalock in the last 2 years, not with this many starts. Emery was the worst, he's out of the league now. And for good reason too.

 

[Limekiller]

Reimer or Chad Johnson

Or Berra, if Avs fans are to be believed.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Stalock has to be kidding:

Postgame - "We knew they were going to come out ready after what happened to them last game. They came out and got some bounces and took a big lead going into intermission. Needed to stand tall in the second and third and give our team a chance, and I tried to do that"

Down 4-1 at first period due to "some bounces". Get the **** out. As for standing tall in the 2nd and 3rd - you faced a total of 13 shots in the those periods combined.

First thing Braun said in the interview in the dressing room was admitting his poor play...

A bit of a difference in terms of accepting responsibility for play.

Man, Stalock's attitude about his bad play irritates me

What do you expect him to say? Hang himself on a cross?

Especially for goaltenders...any goaltender who thinks he is a problem, is a problem. Even vocalizing that is bad; Stalock has to pretend that he was Patrick Roy out there.

Remember how Nabokov would only criticize himself after the Sharks were eliminated?

 

[Alwalys]

1. Braun turns puck over > Backs up (along with Vlasic) and lets forward enter the slot with speed > Gets used as a screen and puck is shot through him (also gets deflected).

2. Braun plays forward for the Flames and deflects a shot through Stalock (some bad luck for Braun and Stalock).

If Jones lets those in (and he has...) you're not flaming him. But again, all of that said, Stalock has to come up with a few of those because his larger body of work looks like utter ****. You can't give up 5 when you're not coming back with a shutout the next game.

Jones does not let those in with nearly the frequency, hence his numbers. In the modern game positioning and technique can make those stops, also unfortunately size also matters. Bottom line is the Sharks had far more great chances so you can't say the goaltender could not have performed better. The Sharks are not a bottom-dwelling defense, they are actually a very good defense, and the team as a whole is a very good puck possession team. So when you take into account the rate at which average NHL goalies stop pucks, you can no longer defend a player who routinely cannot stop pucks at least at the league average rate.

I mean you can see it with your eyes, shots that go in on stalock do not go in on good starting goalies. And if they do, we are going to win handily. That they made a game out of this is testament to the team's offense.

 

[Anomie2029]

What do you expect him to say? Hang himself on a cross?

Especially for goaltenders...any goaltender who thinks he is a problem, is a problem. Even vocalizing that is bad; Stalock has to pretend that he was Patrick Roy out there.

Remember how Nabokov would only criticize himself after the Sharks were eliminated?

Expect him to say something along the lines with Braun.

Acknowledge that he did not have a good first period (hell if he acknowledge that and wanted to cite lack of game time as one reason I'd be ok with it), that he needs to perform better, and that he will bounce back after working hard during practice.

Pretty sure I've heard Jones say similar after not so good games from him this year.

I'm certainly expecting him to say "I'm awful and the team should trade me away for whatever they can get".

 

[Barrie22]

Just get a goalie, pretty much any goalie that is positionally sound and the sharks would see a jump in the play/stats from the back up goalie.

I was in favor of this a month ago when stalock was reassigned to the ahl for his conditioning stint and dell was up with the sharks. To keep dell up for some games and keep stalock in the ahl. At least then the sharks can see whatelse they have potentially for the future or even right now.

 

[hohosaregood]

Literally any NHL goalie other than McElhinney would be better than Stalock.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Problem is.... Marleau and Ward couldn't shutdown a PC together. I really don't like Marleau at center, but i guess when the team is winning...

Except the fact that your statement isn't true in terms of them not performing well in the shutdown role.

 

[stator]

Worth mentioning is that Wingels has been phenomenal since being put on that Couture line. With two skilled guys in Couture and Donskoi, he's able to do the things he does best, which is protecting the puck under pressure and retrieving it on the forecheck. He's been really effective and almost reminds me of two years ago when he had his 15 goal season.

I remember that. Wingels had a good start in October and turned into beast mode in November. All goals were 5v5. Sure wish that beast in Tommy would return permanently.

... also unfortunately size also matters. Bottom line is the Sharks had far more great chances so you can't say the goaltender could not have performed better.

Importance of size will increase as the NHL adjusts their goal tender padding rules like they did for the leg pads. Some of the goalies have significantly out of proportioned upper body padding, they look like autobots. Crawford comes to mind, but so does Stalock.

Except the fact that your statement isn't true in terms of them not performing well in the shutdown role.

Let's look at the individual stats for those two players, Marleau and Ward:

Marleau's +/- is -17 which is the worst on the team
Marleau's CF% is 48.6 which is ranked at 18 out of 23 on the team
Marleau's FF% is 50.2 which is ranked at 17 out of 23 on the team

Ward's +/- is -11 which is ranked 4th worst on the team
Ward's CF% is 50.4 which is ranked 12th out of 23 on the team
Ward's FF% is 52.0 which is also ranked 12th out of 23 on the team


So, the stats back up what DystopianTierney stated about Marleau and Ward not being shutdown players. None of those stats are respectable for shutdown player in the league, and only Ward's CF% and FF% stats are decent.

I post player stats in the GDT so we all can look at them and use them for the player evaluations we post here.

 

[LeeIFBB]

Stalock sucks.

Martin Jones loves him though and Doug by extension. Don't want the backup outplaying the goalie you spent your borderline playoff team's first rounder on.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

On the bright side, when your goalie and 1st line both stink and you still get a point, that's good.

On the "I'm a Sharks fan side", when you score 5 goals, no way should you lose a game.

 

[magic school bus]

Stalock is booty.

That is all.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I'm not sure how to feel about this one.

Comeback from a 4-1 deficit to get a point, but also had full a 5-3 with 3 minutes to put the game away and couldn't do it. That sequence in the game caused a 3-pt swing. Just hope the Flames don't continue to get as lucky vs other teams.

The Sharks did dominate tbe last 45 minutes and the overtime. So, while they lost, it wasn't because they were outplayed. Just need to cut down on the dzone mistakes, especially with a sieve in net.

Couture, Thornton and Marleau were awesome. As was Donskoi and to a lesser extent Ward. Pavelski just couldn't do anything right last night.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Let's look at the individual stats for those two players, Marleau and Ward:

Marleau's +/- is -17 which is the worst on the team
Marleau's CF% is 48.6 which is ranked at 18 out of 23 on the team
Marleau's FF% is 50.2 which is ranked at 17 out of 23 on the team

Ward's +/- is -11 which is ranked 4th worst on the team
Ward's CF% is 50.4 which is ranked 12th out of 23 on the team
Ward's FF% is 52.0 which is also ranked 12th out of 23 on the team


So, the stats back up what DystopianTierney stated about Marleau and Ward not being shutdown players. None of those stats are respectable for shutdown player in the league, and only Ward's CF% and FF% stats are decent.

I post player stats in the GDT so we all can look at them and use them for the player evaluations we post here.

Nothing you posted here has anything to do with whether an individual is effective in the shutdown role.

 

[19sharks19]

I'm not sure how to feel about this one.

Comeback from a 4-1 deficit to get a point, but also had full a 5-3 with 3 minutes to put the game away and couldn't do it. That sequence in the game caused a 3-pt swing. Just hope the Flames don't continue to get as lucky vs other teams.

The Sharks did dominate tbe last 45 minutes and the overtime. So, while they lost, it wasn't because they were outplayed. Just need to cut down on the dzone mistakes, especially with a sieve in net.

Couture, Thornton and Marleau were awesome. As was Donskoi and to a lesser extent Ward. Pavelski just couldn't do anything right last night.

Great post and points. Very well put. Just to add; it is evident this team needs a different back up goaltender. Lord forbid Jones were to be out some time / the season would be a right off.

 

[ScottyDont]

Pavelski just couldn't do anything right last night.

I'm pretty sure if Patty fanned on that tap in, Pavs would have gotten it too

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Great post and points. Very well put. Just to add; it is evident this team needs a different back up goaltender. Lord forbid Jones were to be out some time / the season would be a right off.

Yep. It's not all Stalock, but he makes at least one costly mistake every game. Last night it was the 4-1 goal. If he just stays in his net, there is likely no goal.

Enough is enough.

 

[tahoesharksfan]

We've got to find somebody else to play behind Jones. As soon as it went into over time my first thought was that we were going to lose this in a shootout with Alex in between the pipes.
Other than the awful start we outplayed them for most of the game.

Have we won a game yet wearing those sweaters?

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I'm pretty sure if Patty fanned on that tap in, Pavs would have gotten it too

Maybe, but he was fanning on everything else last night. Just an off night for him. He would have buried at least 1-2 of the chances he got on a regular night.

At the same time, you know you're a great player when you're having an off night and you're still putting yourself in the right spots and getting chances.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

We've got to find somebody else to play behind Jones. As soon as it went into over time my first thought was that we were going to lose this in a shootout with Alex in between the pipes.
Other than the awful start we outplayed them for most of the game.

Have we won a game yet wearing those sweaters?

Nope. They're just as good in them as they were in '92.