Confirmed with Link: Flames Fire Jay Feaster and John Weisbrod

[Kranix]

I was re-reading an old interview with Feaster about his rise through the Tampa Bay organization. I went back to it because I heard Burke say he wants the Flames to be bigger and tougher, and also responded in the affirmative when asked if there was a difference in philosophy between him and Feaster. It reminded me of this old Feaster article, where Jay says the difference between him and his predecessor Rick Dudley was:
"We needed to become a tougher hockey team. That's a work in progress," Feaster says. "We were too easy to play against."

http://www.birdwatchersanonymous.com/2010/4/21/1436050/jay-feaster-dishes-on-dudley-era

But also, in the same interview Feaster says he didn't like Dudley's obsession with player size. Feaster claims Dudley would pass on a player with great skill if said player wasn't 6'2''. Feaster goes on to remind us that it was HE who had one Marty St. Louis leading his team to the cup, a player of small stature but big skill and heart. It's as if Feaster hoped no one would remember it was Rick Dudley who signed St. Louis and put him on the NHL roster in the first place.

After he became GM of Tampa, Feaster added Andre Roy, Jassen Cullimore, Chris Dingman, Darryl Sydor etc... to the skilled players Dudley had assembled like Dan Boyle and Martin St. Louis. A few contradictions. But, he did what Burke would want the next GM of the Flames to do...

Also, I looked at some rosters, Chicago, Boston, Anaheim, LA. These teams aren't really any bigger than Calgary on paper. The top lines are bigger. Burke should specify is he wants a team of giants or top players who are big.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I was re-reading an old interview with Feaster about his rise through the Tampa Bay organization. I went back to it because I heard Burke say he wants the Flames to be bigger and tougher, and also responded in the affirmative when asked if there was a difference in philosophy between him and Feaster. It reminded me of this old Feaster article, where Jay says the difference between him and his predecessor Rick Dudley was:
"We needed to become a tougher hockey team. That's a work in progress," Feaster says. "We were too easy to play against."

http://www.birdwatchersanonymous.com/2010/4/21/1436050/jay-feaster-dishes-on-dudley-era

But also, in the same interview Feaster says he didn't like Dudley's obsession with player size. Feaster claims Dudley would pass on a player with great skill if said player wasn't 6'2''. Feaster goes on to remind us that it was HE who had one Marty St. Louis leading his team to the cup, a player of small stature but big skill and heart. It's as if Feaster hoped no one would remember it was Rick Dudley who signed St. Louis and put him on the NHL roster in the first place.

After he became GM of Tampa, Feaster added Andre Roy, Jassen Cullimore, Chris Dingman, Darryl Sydor etc... to the skilled players Dudley had assembled like Dan Boyle and Martin St. Louis. A few contradictions. But, he did what Burke would want the next GM of the Flames to do...

Also, I looked at some rosters, Chicago, Boston, Anaheim, LA. These teams aren't really any bigger than Calgary on paper. The top lines are bigger. Burke should specify is he wants a team of giants or top players who are big.

Burke assessed his overall draft record, and likely the players he passed highlighted what his philosophy was. Obviously Burke feels the ideal type of roster he wants is different than Jay's, or least Burke thinks he can get there faster with another GM in charge.

Feaster did a lot of good for the Flames especially over this past summer. But the ROR fiasco, taking a guy like Janko, and the poor returns on Jbo and Iggy were likely the reasons he is no longer here. I like Jay, I wish him well, but I have no bones with this move, Burke is a much more competent GM. And after reflecting more on Weisbrod, he may of actually been largely responsible for getting both of them fired. He was Feaster's guy, and I feel the majority of hockey related decisions (player trades and drafting) were left largely on JW's plate. Weisbrod was heavily involved in our decision making, the fact that the coaches remained and those 2 got the axe is pretty telling to me. There is significant difference of direction the way the 2 parties wanted this team to go.

 

[DFF]

Feaster is bad on making trades.

He normally loses or gives up more/getting less than he should

That's why he is no longer the GM

 

[Mike Jones]

Feaster did a lot of good for the Flames especially over this past summer. But the ROR fiasco, taking a guy like Janko, and the poor returns on Jbo and Iggy were likely the reasons he is no longer here. I like Jay, I wish him well, but I have no bones with this move, Burke is a much more competent GM. And after reflecting more on Weisbrod, he may of actually been largely responsible for getting both of them fired. He was Feaster's guy, and I feel the majority of hockey related decisions (player trades and drafting) were left largely on JW's plate. Weisbrod was heavily involved in our decision making, the fact that the coaches remained and those 2 got the axe is pretty telling to me. There is significant difference of direction the way the 2 parties wanted this team to go.

For me this is a really good summary of the situation*. I wonder if it's Feaster's good guy qualities that harmed his trading. From what he presented publically he didn't strike me as having that killer instinct a GM needs to maximize the return for players. It's not that you want to constantly win and fleece the other team but you do want to get what's fair and what your organization needs and deserves for outgoing assets.

*Although you did miss the part where he waived his two potential backup goalies at the same time because he couldn't decide which one he needed to keep. It struck me as someone taking that phrase "Let the market decide" a little too far.

 

[MarkGio]

Burke assessed his overall draft record, and likely the players he passed highlighted what his philosophy was. Obviously Burke feels the ideal type of roster he wants is different than Jay's, or least Burke thinks he can get there faster with another GM in charge.

Feaster did a lot of good for the Flames especially over this past summer. But the ROR fiasco, taking a guy like Janko, and the poor returns on Jbo and Iggy were likely the reasons he is no longer here. I like Jay, I wish him well, but I have no bones with this move, Burke is a much more competent GM. And after reflecting more on Weisbrod, he may of actually been largely responsible for getting both of them fired. He was Feaster's guy, and I feel the majority of hockey related decisions (player trades and drafting) were left largely on JW's plate. Weisbrod was heavily involved in our decision making, the fact that the coaches remained and those 2 got the axe is pretty telling to me. There is significant difference of direction the way the 2 parties wanted this team to go.

This is a good point. Since Feaster isn't a hockey guy, he had to use the information given to him when making decisions. Good managers use the people around them, but they also need to be skilled and experienced. We'll never know who was the voice and decision maker of some of these issues however. Ultimately its the captain that goes down with the ship.


Oh well. Its a new chapter now and all we can do is stay hopeful. We've come a long way since Sutter was a Coach/GM/Scout/Player Developer and everything in between. As long as we keep moving forward, its easy to stay positive about the Flames. Our rivals to the north certainly look like us 10 years ago.

 

[Flamesarmstrong22]

I think the jankowski pick was one reason feaster lost his job, especially because the flames passed up on maata for him and he is now playing regularly with the penguins. Another was the iggy and bouw trades last season, I know the iginla one was a tough situation and he couldn't do much, but overall both returns were underwhelming, especially the bouw trade where I think most of us were expecting a better prospect back like rattie add in that bouwmeester has been great for the blues the trade looks worse

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Actually I think the Jankowski pick is the reason Weisbrod was fired, not Feaster. From the sounds of it Weisbrod was ignoring obvious talent trying to "find the diamond in the rough". Great in rounds 5-7, not so much in rounds 1 & 2. As I had mentioned before, Weisbrod was also Feaster's hockey adviser, which means it was Weisbrod who helped Feaster determine good trade value. And the number of bad trades have certainly outnumbered the good trades made by Feaster.

Feaster was ultimately fired for authorizing many of the trades he's made, and the failed ROR offer sheet - specifically for not clarifying with the NHL brass any ambiguity in the rules, and thankfully the Avs matched anyways. I've said (since the beginning) that the ROR situation would not have been as bad as most say - at worst the league would have voided the offer sheet because the full CBA had not been finalized when the offer sheet was signed. Still, for a lawyer to mishandle that so badly was embarrassing for the team, and I'm sure that's when the ownership group decided to start shopping for a replacement/overseer.

Think of it though, for trading the ENTIRE CORE OF THE TEAM (Regehr, Iginla, Bouwmeester, Tanguay, and Kiprusoff) Feaster's Flames got:

Chris Butler, Paul Byron, Ken Agostino, Ben Hanowski, Morgan Klimchuk, David Jones, Shane O'Brien, Mark Cundari, Reto Berra, and Emile Poirer

Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but if the rebuild is already on the horizon, the Flames could have easily started shopping Kipper the day after his NMC expired, and shopping him harder by offering to retain a portion of his (by then, reduced) salary.

Bouwmeester didn't have to be traded last year, could have possibly waited for greater value.

One might argue that the two 2nd round picks Buffalo got for Regehr is more value than Byron & Butler.

The handling of the Iginla situation was admittedly bobbled by Feaster by not getting a list in writing. I can understand the respect for a player but you respect him by honouring his list, not letting him veto a deal at the last minute.

 

[Lunatik]

I think Sieloff and Baertschi had more to do with Feaster loosing his job than Jankowski.

On Jankowski:

I get the chance to talk to different scouts and different hockey people occasionally through work. I have talked extensively with one scout extensively (he scouted Chara for the Islanders) and is now with Carolina. He told me that there are very rarely surprise picks in the first round of the draft anymore. He said that while no list is the same he said if you compare the top 40 for each team you will probably find no more than 50 names.

I asked about Jankowski specifically because it's something that is debated regularly and he said Jankowski was not a surprise to the Hurricanes at least and he said Jankowski was projected as a 1st round pick by them.

So I do not believe for a moment that Jankowski being picked cost anyone their job, however the arrogant quote by Feaster (who quoted Weisbrod for the record) may have rubbed people the wrong way and could have been part of the reason Feaster and Weisbrod were dismissed.​

On Sieloff and Baertschi:

I think the way they were handled this season made Burke question the way Feaster and the Flames are developing players. Burke was always been a player that has made rookies work hard for roles and never handed them anything.

Sven Baertschi: I think upon doing his review of the organization Burke came to the conclusion that Baertschi should never have been an emergency recall in 2011-12, nor should have he made the team out of camp last season, perhaps should have spent the entire 2012-13 season in the minors because he was not playing a complete game in the AHL either. But even bigger IMO is that Feaster guaranteed Baertschi a spot on the roster, he did not make him work for it and waht happened? A horrid prospect camp, a bad training camp and a poor start to the season. Feaster should never have handed Baertschi a roster spot, and this is why no rookie should be handed a spot IMO.

Patrick Sieloff: As we are all aware Sieloff was AHL eligible due to being drafted out of the USHL and not the CHL, but as a CHL player had 1 more year of CHL eligibility and could have returned to the Windsor Spitfires. Feaster and the Flames decided to sign Sieloff and send him to Abbotsford rather than Windsor. I am not sure what their original plan was in terms of ice-time but Sieloff was playing 3rd pairing minutes (in fairness Ward was playing his 2nd and 3rd pairings fairly evenly) until he was diagnosed with a staph infection. With Burke being a the type of manager that believes in using CHL eligibility if it's there I do believe he thinks it was a mistake sending Sieloff to Abbotsford to play 3rd pairing minutes when he could be in Windsor probably playing 20-25 minutes a night and be traded to a Memorial Cup contender and be a top defenseman on that team too. I personally don't have a problem with Sieloff playing in the AHL because he is physically mature enough, but I get the impress Burke will see it differently.​

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I agree - questionable management of Baertschi and Sieloff also played into it. I didn't realize Sieloff was playing so little in Abbotsford.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I think Sieloff and Baertschi had more to do with Feaster loosing his job than Jankowski.

On Jankowski:

I get the chance to talk to different scouts and different hockey people occasionally through work. I have talked extensively with one scout extensively (he scouted Chara for the Islanders) and is now with Carolina. He told me that there are very rarely surprise picks in the first round of the draft anymore. He said that while no list is the same he said if you compare the top 40 for each team you will probably find no more than 50 names.

I asked about Jankowski specifically because it's something that is debated regularly and he said Jankowski was not a surprise to the Hurricanes at least and he said Jankowski was projected as a 1st round pick by them.

So I do not believe for a moment that Jankowski being picked cost anyone their job, however the arrogant quote by Feaster (who quoted Weisbrod for the record) may have rubbed people the wrong way and could have been part of the reason Feaster and Weisbrod were dismissed.​

On Sieloff and Baertschi:

I think the way they were handled this season made Burke question the way Feaster and the Flames are developing players. Burke was always been a player that has made rookies work hard for roles and never handed them anything.

Sven Baertschi: I think upon doing his review of the organization Burke came to the conclusion that Baertschi should never have been an emergency recall in 2011-12, nor should have he made the team out of camp last season, perhaps should have spent the entire 2012-13 season in the minors because he was not playing a complete game in the AHL either. But even bigger IMO is that Feaster guaranteed Baertschi a spot on the roster, he did not make him work for it and waht happened? A horrid prospect camp, a bad training camp and a poor start to the season. Feaster should never have handed Baertschi a roster spot, and this is why no rookie should be handed a spot IMO.

Patrick Sieloff: As we are all aware Sieloff was AHL eligible due to being drafted out of the USHL and not the CHL, but as a CHL player had 1 more year of CHL eligibility and could have returned to the Windsor Spitfires. Feaster and the Flames decided to sign Sieloff and send him to Abbotsford rather than Windsor. I am not sure what their original plan was in terms of ice-time but Sieloff was playing 3rd pairing minutes (in fairness Ward was playing his 2nd and 3rd pairings fairly evenly) until he was diagnosed with a staph infection. With Burke being a the type of manager that believes in using CHL eligibility if it's there I do believe he thinks it was a mistake sending Sieloff to Abbotsford to play 3rd pairing minutes when he could be in Windsor probably playing 20-25 minutes a night and be traded to a Memorial Cup contender and be a top defenseman on that team too. I personally don't have a problem with Sieloff playing in the AHL because he is physically mature enough, but I get the impress Burke will see it differently.​

Wow. I actually agree with an entire post from you..

*waits for meteors to fall from the sky*

 

[MarkGio]

Actually I think the Jankowski pick is the reason Weisbrod was fired, not Feaster. From the sounds of it Weisbrod was ignoring obvious talent trying to "find the diamond in the rough". Great in rounds 5-7, not so much in rounds 1 & 2. As I had mentioned before, Weisbrod was also Feaster's hockey adviser, which means it was Weisbrod who helped Feaster determine good trade value. And the number of bad trades have certainly outnumbered the good trades made by Feaster.

Feaster was ultimately fired for authorizing many of the trades he's made, and the failed ROR offer sheet - specifically for not clarifying with the NHL brass any ambiguity in the rules, and thankfully the Avs matched anyways. I've said (since the beginning) that the ROR situation would not have been as bad as most say - at worst the league would have voided the offer sheet because the full CBA had not been finalized when the offer sheet was signed. Still, for a lawyer to mishandle that so badly was embarrassing for the team, and I'm sure that's when the ownership group decided to start shopping for a replacement/overseer.

Think of it though, for trading the ENTIRE CORE OF THE TEAM (Regehr, Iginla, Bouwmeester, Tanguay, and Kiprusoff) Feaster's Flames got:

Chris Butler, Paul Byron, Ken Agostino, Ben Hanowski, Morgan Klimchuk, David Jones, Shane O'Brien, Mark Cundari, Reto Berra, and Emile Poirer

Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but if the rebuild is already on the horizon, the Flames could have easily started shopping Kipper the day after his NMC expired, and shopping him harder by offering to retain a portion of his (by then, reduced) salary.

Bouwmeester didn't have to be traded last year, could have possibly waited for greater value.

One might argue that the two 2nd round picks Buffalo got for Regehr is more value than Byron & Butler.

The handling of the Iginla situation was admittedly bobbled by Feaster by not getting a list in writing. I can understand the respect for a player but you respect him by honouring his list, not letting him veto a deal at the last minute.

Solid analysis Stewie. I agree on all fronts.

 

[MarkGio]

Burke never mentioned development of players though, he said trades and drafts when explaining why Feaster and Weisbros got fired

 

[Lunatik]

I agree - questionable management of Baertschi and Sieloff also played into it. I didn't realize Sieloff was playing so little in Abbotsford.

I don't think they were deciding factors, in fact I don't think there was a single deciding factor, think think it was just a handful of red flags that led to the decision. I think Feaster had some good moves and some poor moves,

A few other things that may have been red flags.

• Allowing Iginla to pick between Boston & Pittsburgh and thus having to accept a lesser trade package. Although I am not as high on Khokalchev and Bartowski as others and fairly high on Agostino and do believe Hanowski has NHL potential. So I don't think this is as bad as it is made out to be, but the fact it was leaked that a deal was agreed with Boston makes for bad optics, even if we know it was leaked from Boston.
• Trading a 5th for Kris Russell. I know Russell has been good and a 5th is a small price, but Russell had just been waived and the Flames were unable to place a claim due to having the maximum 50 contracts. But the Blues were willing to lose Russell for nothing on waivers 2 days prior to free agency opening, they likely would have traded him for an expiring contract once he cleared waivers.
• The ROR situation. I do not think more needs to be said, but I do believe had the Avs declined to match the Flames would have appealed and won (and had the offersheet rescinded) due to poor wording in the MOU if they had been told they had to place him on waivers.
• The Babchuk contract and NTC.
• Sarich getting a NTC after voicing displeasure with playing time.

I think trading Bouwmeester to St. Louis with a year left on his deal was a smart move personally because of the depth of the 2013 draft. Getting a mid-late 1st in 2013 is much better than getting one in 2014.

 

[Lunatik]

Burke never mentioned development of players though, he said trades and drafts when explaining why Feaster and Weisbros got fired

I think his first transaction being to demote Baertschi says enough about his thoughts on how Sven was being handled.

 

[scoringmachine]

I love this news. Below is my reason

1. Feaster was allowed the freedom to make the team the way he wanted. No excuses of the organization would let him. From day one when he became the GM he should have started getting younger not do it all at one time.

2. Jay Feaster put all his faith on Weisbrod and Weisbrod did not a bad job but it will take years for some of his pick to pan out if they ever will. Only Sean Monahan panned out so far.

3. Feaster should have taken the Columbus Bluejackets model when trading Iggy. He should have waited until He had a good offer from a team and convince Iggy that this deal will help him and the Flames. Then the Flames would have the picks that would have worked for them.

4 Basically in the shorten season the Flames basically pushed the buttons to force Kipper to retire. They should not have done that and could have convinced Kipper to stay and finish his final year with the team and bring in Ramo as backup which would work well as Ramo said he would have liked to have been a teammate of Kipper and learn from him. We had good goalies in the system such as Jon Gillies and Laurent Brossoit(before he was traded o Edmonton). We would not have needed Berra.

4. Basically all our top players were traded leaving only Cammalleri left as our top player. Feaster knew that we would not make the playoff and probably would try to get a first for Cammy which is not what we need getting too young too fast and not much leadership to help the young players grow. It is not easy to find a Crosby or Ovechkin in every draft.

5. Burke will be GM until they can find someone who the team believes can build the team to win. Basically Burke has said he does not want to be the GM so who do we get.

 

[MarkGio]

I think his first transaction being to demote Baertschi says enough about his thoughts on how Sven was being handled.

Yeah, your criticism is valid. Jeez, is criticizing Feaster all you do?

 

[Lunatik]

Yeah, your criticism is valid. Jeez, is criticizing Feaster all you do?

I think you just have selective reading

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Burke is in Toronto watching the Leafs Game.

 

[Lunatik]

Burke is in Toronto watching the Leafs Game.

The Leafs have 2 of the rumoured GM candidates so it makes sense.

I would also like to throw another name into the ring.

Norm MacIver, AGM of the Blackhawks.

Norm Maciver is in his seventh season with the Chicago Blackhawks and his second as Assistant General Manager. A veteran with more than 20 years of pro hockey experience as an NHL player and coach, Maciver previously served as Director of Player Personnel for a season and as Director of Player Development for three seasons.

Prior to joining the organization, the Thunder Bay, Ontario, native served as an Assistant Coach with the Boston Bruins (2003-06) and the American Hockey League’s Springfield Falcons (2000-03).

 

[King In The North]

Some really good points so far.

However I will argue the against Jankowski pick. I won't debate that other teams had him going in the first round and where we picked him wasn't that far of a stretch (his prospect thread had him predicted going where we chose him, and a bunch of posters actually suggested we take him).

You can't argue, though, no matter where he was ranked by us or other teams, you knew this kid would take a long time to develop. Coming out of prep school, pretty lanky, etc.

The reason the Jankowski pick could be a reason for ousting Feaster and Weisbrod is because over half of the 2012 prospects have already seen NHL time, with a few players near our draft position (before and after we traded down) already making impacts on their teams (on top teams like San Jose and Pittsburgh, no less).

 

[Ace Rimmer]

The 2012 Draft could have also been an issue, in more ways than one. Sure the Flames got the guy (Jankowksi) that they wanted *and* a 2nd round pick (Sieloff). The problem was magnified by the "best player of the draft in ten years" remark, and quite a few highly touted players were still on the board at #14 that more than a few people here were clamoring for at the time (Maata, Ceci, Girgensons, Tervanien) and even someone like Hertl (although I don't recall him being held in as high of a regard) could have been an option.

As AH said, it's not just one thing that caused them to be relieved of their duties. It's a culmination of a lot of little things that have happened over the past two or three seasons.

 

[Bouma Fett*]

I have no issues with Feaster being fired. He had some good moves ,and some bad moves. He was brought into a horrible situation, with an aging, overpaid team full of NTCs, and in ways, handcuffed by an ownership group that wanted to win now, and yet he still had to clear away some of Sutters messy contracts. Regehr wasn't as good anymore and his 4 million cap hit needed to be gone, but I think he had ot try to get someone who could step into the team on defense immediately (Butler) I don't think they wanted him to straight up trade for picks.

And so Feaster had to deal with all of those NTCs and such, and when ownership finally gave in that this team wasn't a winning team, it was too late to get signifigant value for a lot of our pieces.

Feaster made a lot of bad moves, but ultimately, he came in, and had to deal with a ton of ********, and now once he's gotten a lot of that gone, he's fired and whoever comes in gets a totally clean slate, which Feaster never had the luxery of

 

[Zirakzigil]

I don't think the issue was with drafting Jankowski, but who was still available when the Flamea drafted Jankowski. He's a Burke type player, but there were better options available and the Flames really weren't in a position to go for a project.

 

[MarkGio]

I have no issues with Feaster being fired. He had some good moves ,and some bad moves. He was brought into a horrible situation, with an aging, overpaid team full of NTCs, and in ways, handcuffed by an ownership group that wanted to win now, and yet he still had to clear away some of Sutters messy contracts. Regehr wasn't as good anymore and his 4 million cap hit needed to be gone, but I think he had ot try to get someone who could step into the team on defense immediately (Butler) I don't think they wanted him to straight up trade for picks.

And so Feaster had to deal with all of those NTCs and such, and when ownership finally gave in that this team wasn't a winning team, it was too late to get signifigant value for a lot of our pieces.

Feaster made a lot of bad moves, but ultimately, he came in, and had to deal with a ton of ********, and now once he's gotten a lot of that gone, he's fired and whoever comes in gets a totally clean slate, which Feaster never had the luxery of

Maybe that's true. But look all the criticism he's received here. Nobody put a gun to his head when doing these things, certainly not Daryl Sutter. Had he been more diligent and not made some of his blunders, he'd still be here finishing off what he started. He ****ed up, and life goes on.

 

[Kranix]

It was Burke's impatience, size, and the ROR thing.
More symbolically it was clearing out the last remnant of the Sutter era. Feaster is a satisfactory general manager, but he was hired under the old mentality of denial and given too many shifting mission orders. He was working under organizational denial, and then working under a weird mutated build/competitive/start over that happened too late to be a real rebuild, so he constantly looks like a bungler. His trades and drafting were forgivable given his situation. The ROR thing was unforgivable and Burke is impatient, and Feaster doesn't focus on size enough.