Confirmed Signing with Link: [FLA] D Gustav Forsling signs extension with the Panthers (8 years, $5.75M AAV)

[Snowwy]

Man Zito is just in a league of his own.

You never notice when the wind is pushing you forward from behind.

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

Must be a great feeling knowing his hard work has paid off and now he's got a contract that will set his family up for life. Doubt anyone saw this emergence coming if you were asked about him a few years ago. Damn those Panthers.

 

[pantherbot]

Warm weather, golf capital (hockey players love their golf), stay low key, aforementioned taxes, ability to build a big house for family.

These are probably bigger factors than chasing a cup. Florida had no issues acquiring players even they were bad and you never heard of players wanting out of Florida NHL teams.

this actually made me lol, thank you

 

[aviators99]

8x6.5 is the equivalent in California.

Please show your math. These seems wrong. The top CA tax bracket is 12.3%. Florida players still have to pay state tax when they play away games in other states.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Please show your math. These seems wrong. The top CA tax bracket is 12.3%. Florida players still have to pay state tax when they play away games in other states.

Nope,most of Forsling 's deal is signing bonuses so that all gets taxed as games in Florida(or not taxed).

 

[Gentle Man]

Please show your math. These seems wrong. The top CA tax bracket is 12.3%. Florida players still have to pay state tax when they play away games in other states.

Depends on how the contract is structured.

Standard straight salary you would be correct. They would be subject to the jock tax.

Bonuses are paid in the summer and is all paid out in the home state.

I think 6.5 isnt the equivalent personally. California taxes are brutal (I live here).

 

[Ezekial]

Please show your math. These seems wrong. The top CA tax bracket is 12.3%. Florida players still have to pay state tax when they play away games in other states.

I admit it wasn't meant to be the most accurate assessment.
It's 13.3% for athletes in California (progressive too so the calculation is definitely on the high end)

And it was a very simple calculation (5.75×1.133) to represent the maxium amount of difference the contract would be, and it wouldn't be 7M like the person i quoted said.
I feel like the tax thing is overstated, certainly the difference between states like Florida and Illinois (contrary to popular belief, democrat overlords in Illinois have a relatively reasonable flat 4.95% income tax) isn't so bad and not the end all be all when choosing between the two.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Must be nice to not have state tax

Write your representative.

 

[dire wolf]

Depends on how the contract is structured.

Standard straight salary you would be correct. They would be subject to the jock tax.

Bonuses are paid in the summer and is all paid out in the home state.

I think 6.5 isnt the equivalent personally. California taxes are brutal (I live here).

This stuff is more complicated than people realize. You also have to account for things like differences in property taxes (assuming the player buys a house in the home state) and sales taxes. For example, there have been articles about how people moving from California to Texas recently have been surprised that their total tax burden is the same or higher because of property taxes. And you can't just look at the property tax rate. You also have to consider how the taxes are calculated and whether there is a cap on annual tax rate increases and reassessing property values. I'm sure Florida is still cheaper than California, New York or Toronto, but the exact dollar savings is not easy to determine.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Warm weather, golf capital (hockey players love their golf), stay low key, aforementioned taxes, ability to build a big house for family.

These are probably bigger factors than chasing a cup. Florida had no issues acquiring players even they were bad and you never heard of players wanting out of Florida NHL teams.

Yes, we did. We had to over pay on retirement contracts.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

This is the best contract in the league by far. I thought he could've gotten 9+ mil comfortably, he's a legit #1 defenseman, and he's only 27 years old.

 

[Jyrki]

Write your representative.

"Slash taxes now, there's no other reason why athletes would want to play in Florida"?

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

This stuff is more complicated than people realize. You also have to account for things like differences in property taxes (assuming the player buys a house in the home state) and sales taxes. For example, there have been articles about how people moving from California to Texas recently have been surprised that their total tax burden is the same or higher because of property taxes. And you can't just look at the property tax rate. You also have to consider how the taxes are calculated and whether there is a cap on annual tax rate increases and reassessing property values. I'm sure Florida is still cheaper than California, New York or Toronto, but the exact dollar savings is not easy to determine.

This is a weird comment. For guys making 5+ million dollars a year, 12.3% state tax is far, far more important to avoid than a +0.15% property tax assessment.

 

[Gentle Man]

This stuff is more complicated than people realize. You also have to account for things like differences in property taxes (assuming the player buys a house in the home state) and sales taxes. For example, there have been articles about how people moving from California to Texas recently have been surprised that their total tax burden is the same or higher because of property taxes. And you can't just look at the property tax rate. You also have to consider how the taxes are calculated and whether there is a cap on annual tax rate increases and reassessing property values. I'm sure Florida is still cheaper than California, New York or Toronto, but the exact dollar savings is not easy to determine.

Absolutely

I won't even get into something called a Melo Roos tax in this God forsaken place.

You have property taxes then a supplemental Melo roos for areas that have bonds tied to them to build things like schools and fire departments lmao. And these bonds fall off after years, or decades. The bond in my area expires in 110 years or some shit like that hahaha

As an example, my property tax is 8K yearly supplemented with an additional 3500 on top of that and in escalates based on property values.

I'm sure athletes and their more expensive homes pay way more

 

[dire wolf]

This is a weird comment. For guys making 5+ million dollars a year, 12.3% state tax is far, far more important to avoid than a +0.15% property tax assessment.

"Weird?" OK. Yes - income tax is surely a bigger impact than property taxes for someone with that much income, but it's another factor that needs to be considered when calculating the total tax burden. States with no income tax have to generate revenues in other ways -- typically through high property taxes. Places like Alaska (oil) and Nevada (casinos) are the exception. The rest of the difference is made up with a lack of public services. The property taxes become a bigger factor if the player continues to live in the state permanently - or at least long term - after the contract expires. For example, if you buy a $5M house now, a quick review of Zillow suggests that the property taxes are probably around $88k/year in Florida vs. $40k/year in CA. In 8 years, that would be a difference of about $384k if the taxes stay the same - which isn't that much, relative to the contract. However, the taxes and the assessment don't stay the same. In CA, your property taxes can't increase by more than 2% per year. I don't believe that's true in Florida. So, if you wind up staying there for 20 years, the difference in taxes can become huge. Anyway - just another factor to take into account. Feel free to ignore.

 

[biturbo19]

That's really fair value for Forsling. I was really curious how his contract was going to look...because he's a darn good Top-4 Defenceman, but he does still have some real shortcomings when it comes to play strength and size. He can still be targeted with a physical forecheck and by asking him to defend down low and around the net. Especially in a playoff series where that can become a major directive to finish every check on the guy and make his life miserable.

But he's such a slick puck mover, it's easily a trade-off most teams would make. I think this price reflects that fairly accurately. It's big money, but not bigly huge "top pairing" sort of money these days.

 

[Lacaar]

Was listening to Bill Zito in the Got yer back podcast and he was quite candid about his advantages.
They built their practice facility in a place where most of the players drive golf carts there.

It seems to be gaining momentum if anything. These tax free destination Cities where hey it's just better to live in when you're a millionaire.

I have a hard time understanding why anyone can't understand what an impactful advantage these teams have. Effective 10% cap increase, and the ENTIRE player pool to draw from. Look at the results for the last few years. It's not a coincidence that these Sunny tax free destination teams do so well. Their rebuilds are much quicker as well.

 

[sinDer]

What the f***

5.75 is at least 1.5 million under market, probably north of 2

how does one team go from struggling to bring players in to keeping players on sweetheart deals

I guess having the best GM in the league helps.

Was listening to Bill Zito in the Got yer back podcast and he was quite candid about his advantages.
They built their practice facility in a place where most of the players drive golf carts there.

It seems to be gaining momentum if anything. These tax free destination Cities where hey it's just better to live in when you're a millionaire.

I have a hard time understanding why anyone can't understand what an impactful advantage these teams have. Effective 10% cap increase, and the ENTIRE player pool to draw from. Look at the results for the last few years. It's not a coincidence that these Sunny tax free destination teams do so well. Their rebuilds are much quicker as well.

Then why have the Panthers been irrelevant for 25 years?

 

[BB88]

Probably moreso with Montour, though it seems like Monty is back to what he was and last year was the outlier.

As for Reinhart, Tkachuk seems like the bookend there - love Reino but I can't see how he could expect more than Tkachuk.

I think helps with Reinhart as having 1.5-2M extra cap space

That's an insanely good deal. Freaking Florida teams always getting these discounts, must be nice.
And yes, I'm salty as hell about it.

Have you watched Florida prior to the last 3 years?

 

[Chaos2k7]

That's really fair value for Forsling. I was really curious how his contract was going to look...because he's a darn good Top-4 Defenceman, but he does still have some real shortcomings when it comes to play strength and size. He can still be targeted with a physical forecheck and by asking him to defend down low and around the net. Especially in a playoff series where that can become a major directive to finish every check on the guy and make his life miserable.

But he's such a slick puck mover, it's easily a trade-off most teams would make. I think this price reflects that fairly accurately. It's big money, but not bigly huge "top pairing" sort of money these days.

I suggest you watch him some more, because you are not giving anything close to an accurate assessment

 

[Lacaar]

Then why have the Panthers been irrelevant for 25 years?

Did you not read GAINING MOMENTUM?

These discussions and talking points weren't really had 10 years ago. It never really caught on for whatever reason. Maybe with Vegas coming on board a tipping point was hit?

Florida while no favorite until now are about to make the playoffs 5 years in a row.

Would be interesting to go back 10 years and compare the tax free teams performance compared to the norm.

 

[Gentle Man]

That's really fair value for Forsling. I was really curious how his contract was going to look...because he's a darn good Top-4 Defenceman, but he does still have some real shortcomings when it comes to play strength and size. He can still be targeted with a physical forecheck and by asking him to defend down low and around the net. Especially in a playoff series where that can become a major directive to finish every check on the guy and make his life miserable.

But he's such a slick puck mover, it's easily a trade-off most teams would make. I think this price reflects that fairly accurately. It's big money, but not bigly huge "top pairing" sort of money these days.

He is heralded by the team as the most fit guy in the room.





He doesnt look strong, but he is. He just bodies Tage Thompson above

 

[dire wolf]

Did you not read GAINING MOMENTUM?

These discussions and talking points weren't really had 10 years ago. It never really caught on for whatever reason. Maybe with Vegas coming on board a tipping point was hit?

Florida while no favorite until now are about to make the playoffs 5 years in a row.

Would be interesting to go back 10 years and compare the tax free teams performance compared to the norm.

The league should have some sort of cap adjustment to account for tax differences. If the point of the cap is more parity, then they aren't quite achieving that.

 

[biturbo19]

I suggest you watch him some more, because you are not giving anything close to an accurate assessment

What exactly is so inaccurate here? He's physically able to be overpowered and flustered by it. It happens plenty against bigger, physical, hard forechecking teams.

He looked like he was in trouble early against the Bruins last year for instance. He looked like he was knocked way off his usually far steadier game.

He is heralded by the team as the most fit guy in the room.





He doesnt look strong, but he is. He just bodies Tage Thompson above

Being extremely fit and catching guys off guard with surprise hits doesn't have a single thing to do with what i'm talking about, or change the reality that he's still a very small defenceman who can be physically overwhelmed when he's not able to fully control and dictate the situation proactively. If you can get him playing on his back foot, teams have still very much shown that you can knock him off his otherwise excellent game.


Edit: Even in that clip, it takes him two full runs at the guy to really make it stick. He just bounces off the first time as Tage rolls along. The way Tage just boxes him out initially before Forsling gets up another head of steam to land a hit, is far more of what i'm actually talking about. He makes the hit in the end...but it doesn't actually separate Tage from the puck to accomplish anything. Tage just puts it in the corner outmuscles him to retrieve it, then cycles the puck around down below the goal line to a waiting teammate. In spite of the "huge hit" he allegedly takes.

That's the relevant thing here.

 

[Chaos2k7]

What exactly is so inaccurate here? He's physically able to be overpowered and flustered by it. It happens plenty against bigger, physical, hard forechecking teams.

He looked like he was in trouble early against the Bruins last year for instance. He looked like he was knocked way off his usually far steadier game.



Being extremely fit and catching guys off guard with surprise hits doesn't have a single thing to do with what i'm talking about, or change the reality that he's still a very small defenceman who can be physically overwhelmed when he's not able to fully control and dictate the situation proactively. If you can get him playing on his back foot, teams have still very much shown that you can knock him off his otherwise excellent game.


Edit: Even in that clip, it takes him two full runs at the guy to really make it stick. He just bounces off the first time as Tage rolls along.

Not being the biggest Dman does not equate to your conclusions.

He takes the absolute hardest assignments 5v5 and on the PK, and is our #1 Dman, there is nothing he doesn't do well, and he is tough as nails for a smaller guy.