Speculation: Five Steps to a Successful Off-Season

Sgt Schultz

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The bolded highlights the inherent problem. The Blues wouldn't be in a position where one or two of the areas you propose would have to work. If the Blues strip it down, everything, and more, would have to go right in order to be competitive in 5 years.

Look at teams like Minnesota. That team had a "successful" rebuild that got them into the playoffs consistently thank to good drafts and good player acquisitions. They haven't found much playoff success because the players they acquired weren't good enough despite being good players. A team like the Flames are dangerously close to re-evaluating their situation despite finding consistent regular season success and developing solid NHL players. They tried for a shorter-term rebuild and now they might have to throwout a lot of what they've built (if the Gaudreau rumors are to be believed) because what they built hasn't been successful against the league. You can even use the Blues prior to 2017. A good team every year that only made it out of the 2nd round once during that timeframe. And immediately after it happened, they had to retool.

Rebuilds are always an inevitability for a team. The Blues will have to go through another one sometime in the future. But they are a last resort for a reason. The goal of all rebuilds is to be in the position the Blues are currently in. No, they are not vastly superior to every other team in the league. They are not a team that can steamroll every other team in their path while not breaking a sweat. But that's a level of near perfection that's arguably been achieved a handful of times in the last 30 years. The Blues will have to work their asses off to win another title. But so will the team that wishes to beat the Blues.

The steamroller level of success has not been achieved during the salary cap era. The Pens have been the only back to back winners in the salary cap era, with the Kings winning two years out of three. But neither of those teams were in a class above everybody else.

We will probably never see dominance like the mid to late 70's Canadiens, early 80's Islanders, or mid to late 80's Oiler's again.

I don't think it is possible to achieve that level of success for more than a season or two, and that is if some very young players pay big dividends early in their careers.

I don't think it is possible to achieve that level of success for more than a season or two, and that is if some very young players pay big dividends early in their careers.

The salary cap pretty much precludes building a dynasty. The best you can do is build a consistent playoff team and keep enough young talent rolling in to gradually turn over the roster. Even that is a very tall order.
 
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Brockon

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Agreed.

I was just looking at it from the Hall vs. G point of view, since that was the discussion I was responding to.

I mean Gaudreau comes closer to the type of player (stat wise) we should be targeting vs Hall.

In 6 "full" NHL seasons, he's never played under 70 games, including this shortened one. Gaudreau has 4 24+ goal seasons.

This said, he seems to disappear when the game matters and tries to avoid contact when making plays - try to avoid contact, great but you can't sacrifice the play consistently to avoid the hit... Gaudreau is a firm no in my eyes, right next to Hall.

I'd rather see if Hoffman is available for a 5 year term. Also a UFA, so no assets required. A proven triggerman, which is exactly what this team needs with our playmakers. Character questions coming with him, absolutely - but I feel we have the leadership core to keep him in line and the winning history to intrigue him to take less term and less salary than a non contender like Detroit will have to offer to get him to commit.

Colorado and Dallas have the space to offer him something, but need to hold back cap for the following summer to sign their stars (Heiskanen, Klingberg, Makar, MacKinnon etc).
 

execwrite1

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Realistically -

The Blues have two elite forwards and two elite defensemen. That's it.

The roster needs to be rebuilt through drafting, trades, clearing cap space and a couple of prudent free agent signings.
 
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Brockon

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Realistically -

The Blues have two elite forwards and two elite defensemen. That's it.

The roster needs to be rebuilt through drafting, trades, clearing cap space and a couple of prudent free agent signings.

The Oilers have 2 elite forwards after 10 years of rebuild and are ridiculously far from being contenders because they have no cap space to add complimentary pieces...

The Pens won back to back cups with 2 elite forwards and 1 elite dman.

The Caps won their cup with 2 elite forwards and an elite dman.

The hawks won their 3 cups with 2 elite forwards and 1 elite dman.

Cup wins come from having 3-4 elite pieces and the right complimentary players around them. If you sell now to rebuild, you're never going to get the Schwartz, Schenn, Perron, Bozak, JBo, Thomas type cast under a cap ceiling again with those 4 elite talents.

Blowing it up now just ruins the chance to tweak the team a bit and try again next year with a similar roster.
 

Note Worthy

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Realistically -

The Blues have two elite forwards and two elite defensemen. That's it.

The roster needs to be rebuilt through drafting, trades, clearing cap space and a couple of prudent free agent signings.

Um, what? Ignoring the "what is elite" debate, do you have any idea how many teams would kill to have two elite forwards and two elite defenseman on their team? That's actually really great.
 

kimzey59

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The Oilers have 2 elite forwards after 10 years of rebuild and are ridiculously far from being contenders because they have no cap space to add complimentary pieces...

The Pens won back to back cups with 2 elite forwards and 1 elite dman.

The Caps won their cup with 2 elite forwards and an elite dman.

The hawks won their 3 cups with 2 elite forwards and 1 elite dman.

Cup wins come from having 3-4 elite pieces and the right complimentary players around them. If you sell now to rebuild, you're never going to get the Schwartz, Schenn, Perron, Bozak, JBo, Thomas type cast under a cap ceiling again with those 4 elite talents.

Blowing it up now just ruins the chance to tweak the team a bit and try again next year with a similar roster.


Where I agree with you is that you don't "blow it up" when you still have productive "Elite" players. The "Elite" players are the core of your team and until they decline you are in a Cup window. And, as obvious as this should be; the goal is to win the Cup, not to accumulate an Elite prospect pool.

Where I disagree is the comment that "If you sell now to rebuild, you're never going to get the Schwartz, Schenn, Perron, Bozak, JBo, Thomas type cast under a cap ceiling again with those 4 elite talents".
Chicago did exactly that less than 10 years ago(between 2010 to 2012 they turned over a massive chunk of their supporting cast). The trick to it is that you have to keep drafting well while you're in that Cup window with your "Elite players". There has to be a steady stream of talent coming from the minors to replace the guys who price themselves off the team. Admittedly, Chicago's turnover between 2010 and 2012 wasn't exactly voluntary; but they are proof that it can be done.

Now, having said that, I'm not completely convinced that the Blues are in a prime spot to do that. I like Kyrou, Kostin and Alexandrov well enough, but I don't know that any of them are enough to adequately replace Schwartz, Perron and Bozak as the high end of our support crew(although adding a few more 1st round picks over the next few years might change my mind on that). Given that I think we have a very limited Cup window, I try to give this crew as many chances as possible before the wheels fall off. When it becomes obvious that ROR, Petro and Parayko are slowing down; that's when you start selling pieces to rebuild the "core". But you base that decision on how the core is doing, not on how the supporting cast looks.
 

Stlblue50

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Most of the Blues core is in their prime right now. ROR is signed and should continue this level for at least 4 more years. DP57 is playing his best hockey of his career. He is getting old but I like how he’s never relied on speed. Those type of players tend to age better. Same with Petro if he stays.
Then we have Scheen, Schwartz, Colt in their mid to late 20s and Thomas young 20s. There is 7 “core” players that are all signed long term besides Petro/Schwartz. I do believe the team will give Schwartz a similar deal as Scheen.

The depth players are also all young. Sunny, Barby, Sandford, Blais, Kyrou, Dunn, and a couple prospects knocking on the door.
 

Pizza!Pizza!

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If we can sign Petro for 8.5M we should do it yesterday
Dallas had the same mentality with Jamie Benn and look at the results. I know everyone is really big on Petro now, but don't forget how streaky and absent minded he can be, and has been, for good stretches in the past couple seasons. Many top D men seem to as fickle as goalies these days and have flash in the pan Norris caliber seasons and then hit the wall (or get hurt) and start declining. Giordano, EK, Burns, Mike Green....does anyone expect John Carlson to be a top 3 D man in the NHL next season?

I'd try to get Petro at 7.5 and just give him lots of term and hint at banners and statues and see how loyal he is. Wouldn't hurt to remind him that taxes are higher in other cities and countries as well.

All that said, with Tank on LTIR I wouldn't be surprised to see the Blues overpay Petro just to avoid having 2 fan favorites not in the lineup next season. I just hope he stays healthy and consistent enough to earn w/e they give him.
 

Thallis

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Dallas had the same mentality with Jamie Benn and look at the results. I know everyone is really big on Petro now, but don't forget how streaky and absent minded he can be, and has been, for good stretches in the past couple seasons. Many top D men seem to as fickle as goalies these days and have flash in the pan Norris caliber seasons and then hit the wall (or get hurt) and start declining. Giordano, EK, Burns, Mike Green....does anyone expect John Carlson to be a top 3 D man in the NHL next season?

I'd try to get Petro at 7.5 and just give him lots of term and hint at banners and statues and see how loyal he is. Wouldn't hurt to remind him that taxes are higher in other cities and countries as well.

All that said, with Tank on LTIR I wouldn't be surprised to see the Blues overpay Petro just to avoid having 2 fan favorites not in the lineup next season. I just hope he stays healthy and consistent enough to earn w/e they give him.

Jaime Benn is a power forward. Alex Pietrangelo is a high IQ 2 way defender. The two aren't remotely comparable.
 
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Pizza!Pizza!

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Jaime Benn is a power forward. Alex Pietrangelo is a high IQ 2 way defender. The two aren't remotely comparable.
You totally missed the point of my post. Look at Jamie Benn's contract and compare it to his level of play. He's over payed by about $3M dollars and has a long term deal. He's not a bad player but he still has an albatross of a contract that would be unmovable even if he didn't have a NTC. It happened because he had a career high season going into FA.

Petro has been playing very well lately, but he's going to be overvalued on the Free Agent market. People get so focused on "#1 D don't grow on trees", that there's speculation he could fetch $9M+. To be blunt, he is not worth that now, nor is it likely he will be in the future. He's had good sized 'slumps' in almost every season or playoff run in his career, we can't just forget those simply because overall he's still "elite #1 D". At the end of the day even when Petro is on his game and is doing amazing defensive work, he's not really a game-breaker and only a true game-breaker caliber player should make anything above 7.5M in today's league.

To put it another way...in which scenario would the Blues win more games.... paying Petro $10M/yr for the next 6 years or paying Carey Price $10M/yr for the next 6 years? What about McDavid/Draisaitl or a younger Kane/Crosby/Malkin?

Elite defensemen are hard to come by and the Blues are hurting a bit right now because Jaybo is gone and Faulk hasn't fully gelled with the team yet, but the Blues still have a decent D corps with a solid structure. Look at how well teams that are still in the playoffs are doing despite not having the D depth of the Blues, namely Dallas and Colorado. Defense wins championships and the Blues should value their D, but other than your Orr/Borque/Lidstrom caliber guys, even the best Dmen aren't usually game-breakers. You could replace Petro with a mid-pairing guy at a fraction of the cost and as long as he plays within the Blues' system and Faulk can find some chemistry you'd barely notice a dip in team performance. Whereas if they overpay him for long term, then even if he stays at his current level - they'll be cap strapped with a contract that would become immovable in a few years and thus unable to fix other holes that develop in the roster.

The only true game-breaker I see on the Blues roster right now is ROR. Nobody else should be getting looked at for a potential 8 figure annual contract.
 
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Celtic Note

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Dallas had the same mentality with Jamie Benn and look at the results. I know everyone is really big on Petro now, but don't forget how streaky and absent minded he can be, and has been, for good stretches in the past couple seasons. Many top D men seem to as fickle as goalies these days and have flash in the pan Norris caliber seasons and then hit the wall (or get hurt) and start declining. Giordano, EK, Burns, Mike Green....does anyone expect John Carlson to be a top 3 D man in the NHL next season?

I'd try to get Petro at 7.5 and just give him lots of term and hint at banners and statues and see how loyal he is. Wouldn't hurt to remind him that taxes are higher in other cities and countries as well.

All that said, with Tank on LTIR I wouldn't be surprised to see the Blues overpay Petro just to avoid having 2 fan favorites not in the lineup next season. I just hope he stays healthy and consistent enough to earn w/e they give him.
Most of the guys that you mention are purely offensive defensemen. That skill set can and often does dry up fast. Petro is not that player. He is great defensively and that skill set ages well. JBo is a good example of that.

It’s hard to find guys that are that good defensively and do so with great consistency, especially in the game today. This isn’t as simple as plugging in any standard issue top 4 guy, at least not with the type of team we have constructed.

Offensively Petro has been very consistent relative to his peers. You don’t see the wild swings in points from him like you do those other guys. He also hasn’t shown signs of decline before 30 like those other guys (exception Burns who was a late bloomer).

None of this means Petro won’t fall off a cliff, but indications are that it isn’t happening now.
 
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Celtic Note

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Chara while different is an example of a player who aged well. His point range is very comparable to Petro and his offensive (not defensive) decline was in his late 30’s.

The obvious difference is that Chara is a physical warrior. While Petro is less reliant on physical characteristics. He is largely a guy reliant his hockey IQ.


Duncan Keith had his fall at 34, but is still a pretty good defenseman. He was pretty reliant on his skating, which has taken a fall. Petro, while a good, but not elite skater, doesn’t rely heavily on speed.

My guess is that Petro remains productive in a similar capacity through 34-35. Then he is probably a top 4 D for another 2-4 years. The back half of the contract will hurt. The front half gives us an opportunity at the Cup.


I see inherently less risk in a long term contract to Petro than Schenn or Faulk. Those are the contracts that are concerning, but at least Schenn will come with some productive years.
 
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Brockon

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Where I agree with you is that you don't "blow it up" when you still have productive "Elite" players. The "Elite" players are the core of your team and until they decline you are in a Cup window. And, as obvious as this should be; the goal is to win the Cup, not to accumulate an Elite prospect pool.

Where I disagree is the comment that "If you sell now to rebuild, you're never going to get the Schwartz, Schenn, Perron, Bozak, JBo, Thomas type cast under a cap ceiling again with those 4 elite talents".
Chicago did exactly that less than 10 years ago(between 2010 to 2012 they turned over a massive chunk of their supporting cast). The trick to it is that you have to keep drafting well while you're in that Cup window with your "Elite players". There has to be a steady stream of talent coming from the minors to replace the guys who price themselves off the team. Admittedly, Chicago's turnover between 2010 and 2012 wasn't exactly voluntary; but they are proof that it can be done.

Now, having said that, I'm not completely convinced that the Blues are in a prime spot to do that. I like Kyrou, Kostin and Alexandrov well enough, but I don't know that any of them are enough to adequately replace Schwartz, Perron and Bozak as the high end of our support crew(although adding a few more 1st round picks over the next few years might change my mind on that). Given that I think we have a very limited Cup window, I try to give this crew as many chances as possible before the wheels fall off. When it becomes obvious that ROR, Petro and Parayko are slowing down; that's when you start selling pieces to rebuild the "core". But you base that decision on how the core is doing, not on how the supporting cast looks.

Chicago never had to deal with 3 years of projected flat cap, limiting the opportunity to add complimentary pieces around their core during Kane, Toews and Keith's primes. This team's contract structures were designed to remain workable under a rising cap of 2-3m every year for their term. A flat cap taking 6-9m off that makes the Schenn, Faulk, Scandella contracts disgusting to work around for extending guys like Schwartz, Thomas, Kyrou etc as we move forward.

This is why I say you're not replacing our complimentary pieces if you blow it up - our core will be past their prime and locked in on overpayments after the cap starts rising again in 4 years time. We don't have the pipeline of prospects coming in to shore up the lineup - any major improvements are going to be Free Agents or trade acquisitions.

I didn't like the Schenn extension when it was signed, because I don't think he's going to be a valued complimentary piece on our roster by the time his full NTC expires after the 2024-25 season. He's going to be the new Steen - beloved bottom 6er, resented for his contract.

We're on the same page in that I concur, you don't make roster building decisions around the high end support cast - you've got to look at the core and make the decision to blow it up based on that.

Petro (4ish years as undisputed #1-3 dman, 4ish years in the 3-5 range?). Not going to resign for much under 8 AAV. You ship him out, this team loses alot of steam, because it's ability to ice 2 very capable d pairings for 40+ mins a game takes a huge hit.

Tarasenko. Giant question mark. Does he come back able to produce 25/25+ a season consistently after a 3rd shoulder surgery? 25/25 isn't enough without improvements from our other wingers as Perron won't be a near PPG player for the next 3-4 seasons. I can't pencil Tarasenko in for 30G 40A, which was his standard for years. Which means upgrades on the 2 LW slots from Schwartz and Sanford.

Parayko I think rebounds next year. I don't feel his performance in the bubble at 27 is a sign of slowing down. That's underperforming due to something undisclosed (injury? Covid?).

ROR at 29 has been nothing but exemplary for us. We ride his contract out and that's when my worries begin, when he's going UFA in 3 more seasons.

That's when I see our window creeping shut, after the 2022-23 season - unless we lose our key defensive cog in Petro now. This team doesn't have the horses to play run and gun, it's built to cycle, possess and grind - you're not doing that without 2 elite dmen. Even if Kyrou replaces Tarasenko's production (which I don't expect remotely) I don't see us as having the firepower to overcome a Petro departure unless Perunovich is another Makar/Hughes type in his rookie season and moving forward.

We don't have the assets to buy an extended window via trade like Chicago did as I see it. Either we sign Petro and continue with the DA plan, or we fade away into the pretender status most of the league views us as already.

Alexandrov might be that great 3C we need to move Thomas up into the top 6 permanently as 2C, push Schenn over to the LW and run

Schwartz-ROR-Perron
Schenn-Thomas-Tarasenko/Kyrou
Sanford-Alexandrov-Sunny
Blais-DLR-Barbashev

Where the entire 4th line is replaceable as players want raises in 2021/2022 etc. But I just don't see management being at the rebuild stage. They're going to find a way to sign Petro because letting him walk cuts this team's legs out from under them for the rest of the core's window.
Or they might as well start selling everything now and build around Thomas and Kyrou (who I don't see as being that winger you embrace as a core piece).
 

Celtic Note

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Chicago never had to deal with 3 years of projected flat cap, limiting the opportunity to add complimentary pieces around their core during Kane, Toews and Keith's primes. This team's contract structures were designed to remain workable under a rising cap of 2-3m every year for their term. A flat cap taking 6-9m off that makes the Schenn, Faulk, Scandella contracts disgusting to work around for extending guys like Schwartz, Thomas, Kyrou etc as we move forward.

This is why I say you're not replacing our complimentary pieces if you blow it up - our core will be past their prime and locked in on overpayments after the cap starts rising again in 4 years time. We don't have the pipeline of prospects coming in to shore up the lineup - any major improvements are going to be Free Agents or trade acquisitions.

I didn't like the Schenn extension when it was signed, because I don't think he's going to be a valued complimentary piece on our roster by the time his full NTC expires after the 2024-25 season. He's going to be the new Steen - beloved bottom 6er, resented for his contract.

We're on the same page in that I concur, you don't make roster building decisions around the high end support cast - you've got to look at the core and make the decision to blow it up based on that.

Petro (4ish years as undisputed #1-3 dman, 4ish years in the 3-5 range?). Not going to resign for much under 8 AAV. You ship him out, this team loses alot of steam, because it's ability to ice 2 very capable d pairings for 40+ mins a game takes a huge hit.

Tarasenko. Giant question mark. Does he come back able to produce 25/25+ a season consistently after a 3rd shoulder surgery? 25/25 isn't enough without improvements from our other wingers as Perron won't be a near PPG player for the next 3-4 seasons. I can't pencil Tarasenko in for 30G 40A, which was his standard for years. Which means upgrades on the 2 LW slots from Schwartz and Sanford.

Parayko I think rebounds next year. I don't feel his performance in the bubble at 27 is a sign of slowing down. That's underperforming due to something undisclosed (injury? Covid?).

ROR at 29 has been nothing but exemplary for us. We ride his contract out and that's when my worries begin, when he's going UFA in 3 more seasons.

That's when I see our window creeping shut, after the 2022-23 season - unless we lose our key defensive cog in Petro now. This team doesn't have the horses to play run and gun, it's built to cycle, possess and grind - you're not doing that without 2 elite dmen. Even if Kyrou replaces Tarasenko's production (which I don't expect remotely) I don't see us as having the firepower to overcome a Petro departure unless Perunovich is another Makar/Hughes type in his rookie season and moving forward.

We don't have the assets to buy an extended window via trade like Chicago did as I see it. Either we sign Petro and continue with the DA plan, or we fade away into the pretender status most of the league views us as already.

Alexandrov might be that great 3C we need to move Thomas up into the top 6 permanently as 2C, push Schenn over to the LW and run

Schwartz-ROR-Perron
Schenn-Thomas-Tarasenko/Kyrou
Sanford-Alexandrov-Sunny
Blais-DLR-Barbashev

Where the entire 4th line is replaceable as players want raises in 2021/2022 etc. But I just don't see management being at the rebuild stage. They're going to find a way to sign Petro because letting him walk cuts this team's legs out from under them for the rest of the core's window.
Or they might as well start selling everything now and build around Thomas and Kyrou (who I don't see as being that winger you embrace as a core piece).
I think you are correct that we have a three year window with the current roster construction. I think Armstrong has us at 2 years.
 

westc2

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Well...With Tarasenko's LTIR status we'll surely have enough to sign Petro, to hopefully no more than 9 mil and still be cap compliant until the next season.

Get rid of Steen, Bozak, Allen, Bortuzzo, DLR and Gunnarsson's contracts...Only problem is Steen has a no trade clause.

I would have included Faulk but I highly doubt anyone would take on the Faulk contract. It seems like Armstrong really screwed us with this one...unless he's got some master plan.
 

Pizza!Pizza!

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None of this means Petro won’t fall off a cliff, but indications are that it isn’t happening now.
Oh I agree with this totally. I think Petro has another 4-5 years with 40-60pt seasons and overall good play. But the contract rumors are all 8 years at max $$$ which I think is a borderline slight overpayment at current (especially given the cap for the next season or 2) and a massive team killing albatross in years 5-8.

Blues should try to keep him, but only with a slight raise on his current salary if they're going to offer max term (and rumor is that's just what Army offered - 8x8). As great as he is, I don't think he brings enough to the table to justify the $$$ he's asking.
 

Stlblue50

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Blues should try to keep him, but only with a slight raise on his current salary if they're going to offer max term (and rumor is that's just what Army offered - 8x8). As great as he is, I don't think he brings enough to the table to justify the $$$ he's asking.
Right, I really don’t see what others are seeing when they call Petro an Elite or top 5 dman in the league. He is extremely inconsistent on both ends of the ice. His defensive zone coverage is so hit or miss. When he’s on he is good but when he is off, watch out!
I really do not like his offense game overall either. Sure he racks up points but that’s because he pinches down low more than almost anyone in the league. His shot accuracy and release time is bad and he kills the PP most of the time.

His strengths are the transition game (breaking out of the zone) and reading plays/pinching down low when it’s needed.
 
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Celtic Note

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Right, I really don’t see what others are seeing when they call Petro an Elite or top 5 dman in the league. He is extremely inconsistent on both ends of the ice. His defensive zone coverage is so hit or miss. When he’s on he is good but when he is off, watch out!
I really do not like his offense game overall either. Sure he racks up points but that’s because he pinches down low more than almost anyone in the league. His shot accuracy and release time is bad and he kills the PP most of the time.

His strengths are the transition game (breaking out of the zone) and reading plays/pinching down low when it’s needed.
If you don’t think Petro is consistent, then could you please point to a person who is consistent as a #1 defenseman?
 

Pizza!Pizza!

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If you don’t think Petro is consistent, then could you please point to a person who is consistent as a #1 defenseman?
Josi, Hedman, Seth Jones, Dougie Hamilton, Heiskanen, Makar, Hughes, Weber when he's healthy. Shea Theodore, Edler, Spurgeon, Chabot, Provorov.

EDIT: forgot Letang, Chara, Carlson (for now) and Severson.
 

execwrite1

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The argument seems to be from some that this Blues team could win a Cup with Petro in the next couple of years but probably can't without him.
 
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Sgt Schultz

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If the hands of time were 3-4 years later I would say we are in trouble and need to rebuild. That is not the case right now.

As for having only 2 elite forwards and 2 elite defensemen, my question is the same as everybody else's...how many are needed? The salary cap precludes having much more than that unless you have a bunch of guys willing to play for less than market value for the sake of chasing Cups with the Blues. Good luck with that. Or you wind up with a bunch of very young players who are out of their minds good almost right out of the chute. Those players don't come around often, if you factor in the entire league not just one team.

Army may have planned to replace Petro with Faulk or Scandella and bring someone else up. When Bo was lost, that probably went out the window, although we have no idea how much longer he was going to play. Even so, neither Faulk or Scandella have shown anything approaching that level.

In an ideal world, we hang on to the top core (with Tarasenko being a big question mark) and we see enough young talent emerge to replace them in 3-5 years. The process reminds me of something called the one-third rule of organizations. It states that in any organization one-third of the members do two-thirds of the work, one-pull their own weight, and one-third do almost nothing. You improve by motivating/moving the middle third toward the top third, because the bottom third is a lost cause.

For a sports team, the bottom third is in a constant state of turnover. And there is movement between the groups, particularly as young players mature and veterans age out. The question is how solid the middle third is as a group. Do the members gradually become part of the top third or move the play of the group as a whole toward the top third? If not, find middle-third players than do.

I think our middle third played a big role in the run last year. Sure, ROR, Tarasenko, Binnington, and Petro got the attention, but the middle group more than held their own throughout that run. That middle group was decent during the regular season this year, although not as productive as last year, and that was probably to be expected. They disappeared in the bubble. That is cause for concern, but not panic.
 

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Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
16,940
5,732
Josi, Hedman, Seth Jones, Dougie Hamilton, Heiskanen, Makar, Hughes, Weber when he's healthy. Shea Theodore, Edler, Spurgeon, Chabot, Provorov.

EDIT: forgot Letang, Chara, Carlson (for now) and Severson.

There are so many on that list that I would list as inferior to Petro that it’s hard for me to see how I would even start.
 

Sgt Schultz

Registered User
Jun 30, 2019
398
524
Santa Fe, NM
The argument seems to be from some that this Blues team could win a Cup with Petro in the next couple of years but probably can't without him.
I think this hit the nail on the head. The defense looked like a shell of last year while they were in the bubble, so I don't see this team with this style led by this coach playing for a Cup without Petro or somebody stepping up/in to fill his role....especially with Bo gone.
 

Alklha

Registered User
Sep 7, 2011
16,875
2,751
I think this hit the nail on the head. The defense looked like a shell of last year while they were in the bubble, so I don't see this team with this style led by this coach playing for a Cup without Petro or somebody stepping up/in to fill his role....especially with Bo gone.
Unless I’m misremembering, Parayko was largely fine without Bouwmeester before the stoppage.

I’m not going to read anything into the performance of Parayko in the bubble when we pretty much know he was one of the players who had COVID. Even ignoring the time he missed when the players returned, we know there can be longer lasting issues for people who even just had a mild case.

We’ll miss Bouw either way, but I expect Parayko will be fine.
 

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