#FireTherrien lives! Habs lose AGAIN 3-1

[Kraniumm]

One quip I keep hearing is "OK who do we replace him with then?" As if a lesser evil is worse or something, IDK. Anyway, here's a post from elsewhere with some considerations:

Here are a few guys to consider outside of the usual Guy Boucher suggestion. Some of them are currently employed in the NHL and may be better as off-season replacements, but might still work now:

1. Kevin Dineen: currently an assistant with the Hawks, but he's got some experience as an NHL head coach and after a very good first season, got fired with a small sample size of games in which a bad Florida team under-performed. He's been active in coaching in various positions and most recently, he's been in an organization that is successful with a great system. Sure, the Hawks would have to give up an assistant mid-season and we might have to offer compensation, but maybe Bergevin has an in there to make it happen.

2. Kirk Muller: now I'll preface this by saying I'm not the biggest Muller fan. By that, I mean that I believe he was overrated as an assistant here, and we saw him struggle as a head coach in Carolina. But the pluses would be that he knows how to run a PP, he knows how to deal with Montreal media (both as a player and coach), and he's had the chance to learn form past mistakes as a coach and now as an assistant in St. Louis. I don't think he'd be hard to pry out of Stl, and I think his contract ends this year anyways.

3. John Stevens: assistant in LA with a lot of success there. Past experience as a head coach as well.

4. Benoit Groulx: highly successful QMJHL coach, who left the Olympiques this year and was also the WJC coach last winter. He reminds me a bit of Claude Julien, but if we're patient with him, I think he could be a guy who brings a different philosophy to the table.

5. Eric Veilleux: another guy who had a successful junior coaching career and is now an assistant in the AHL with Norfolk. Like Groulx, he'd be a first time NHL head coach, which means he'd be better served by having an experienced assistant (how about moving Craig Ramsay behind the bench?).

6. Dale Hawerchuk: head coach of the Barrie Colts in the OHL. Has had a string of very good years and has a pedigree as a very good NHL player. Many people think he's next in line to take over the Jets job and that he got consideration in Buffalo and Toronto.

7. Larry Robinson: NHL Cup winner as a player and as a coach. Former Hab. Publicly stated he was interested in the job before.

And there are others... some are English, some are French, none are Klingon. But all have good qualifications. The point is that there are people out there if the Habs chose to look. And they should be looking... the longer this goes on, the less Therrien becomes responsible and the more Bergevin does...

Also:

 

[Whitesnake]

No, it's not bad. It's playing terrible. There's a difference.

See, I can play this "let's do it the other way"....how about at the beginning of the year we were playing over our head and not what this team is really capable to when other teams get it going? How about analysing the fact that it's easier to have wins at the start of the year when other teams aren't up to par compared to a time of the year when everybody plays hard just before the teams that can't make it starts mailing the 2 points?

You wouldn't do squat?? This makes no sense. So the team is terrible, we're about to waste Price's best years, and you wouldn't do squat....Great...

I wouldn't do squat 'cause don't have a lot of confidence in a GM who uses playstation as it's deal making criteria. And then....what's out there to make? What would you make? I'm still waiting....What's out there to make? Who is tradeable for a SIGNIFICANT return. You do have to understand that to improve, it has to mean that what we're bringing has to be better than what you let go. And I'm just so convinced that Galchy will be implicated in a deal that we won't like that I do prefer staying put. Of course, it we make a deal that improves the team...go ahead. I just doubt it.

Hey, let's do it the other way, we can win with Pacioretty who's one of the best goal scorers in the NHL, a strong two way Plekanec, a two way depth player who's a monster at board battles, a DD providing tertiary scoring, a great puck mover and PP QB in Markov, as well as awesome depth like Petry, Beaulieu, potentially having a 3rd line player end with 20goals, Galchenyuk just itching to explode, etc.
See how easy that was?? But no, let's pretend like our 2-11 stretch is representative of our team. Yes, this team's true potential is about 15 wins..

Where did I say that? I even said that with Price back, we will turn this 1-10 to maybe 5-5, maybe even 6-4....or maybe sometimes 7-3. That's what Price is all about. Yep, Pacioretty top scorer who less and less is showign a physical side of his game that is scary in the playoffs. Strong 2-way Plekanec that is always excuses for not bringing the offensive way because poor kid plays against tough opposition. DD in a positive post? Takes some kind of nerves....etc. So yep, we could all see the great of this team....and the bad....but then reality is probably right in tihe middle which in the end....won,t be good enough.

You're damn right we don't share the same opinion. I don't even quite get your opinion. To hear you it's as if we have the worst team in the NHL, that every player is pretty much bad, but hey, we shouldn't do anything about it....

Never said it was the worst. Said it's not good enough to progress, to beat the best, and real soon to even compete against up and coming teams. Not every player is bad and yet, funnily enough, you start your "etc." when you clearly know that there's nothing good to say about any other players.

 

[Natey]

That would be cherry picking Davey's hot streak

Also, he wasnt being used the same way Eller was being used in 2015.

It's all cherry-picking.

9/10 stats are cherry-picking a time frame, situation, etc, etc, etc to so your point is "proven."

 

[Natey]

I'm an Eagles fan and it's been a ****** month of sports for me lol

Me too. Screw you, Chip!

And my ****ing Wolves suck. But not quite enough to sack Jackett either. Ugh.

 

[void]

Tony Marinaro about to go on a massive Dale Weise rant after the break. "We got Guy Lafleur on the RW. Well, it's not actually Guy Lafleur.. but he thinks he's Guy Lafleur! And it's not his fault!"

Can't wait to hear what he has to say

edit: Amazing rant

 

[Whitesnake]

We have three stars in their prime now. Flesh out the rest of the lineup with Gallagher, Beau, Petry, Eller, Markov, Plek... it's a strong group. Add in a scorer and this team is a cup favourite.

Can people wake up and realize that the "stars" you're talking about aren't Keith, Kane, Benn or whoever? You have in there a Pacioretty who still has everything to prove in the playoffs, still has to show that he's physical enough so that while he doesn't have to destroy people, he could not be beaten so easily and be somewhat physical with his frame? And you have a Subban who despite being a star....can be either a star or a total dud. We are NOT, except for Price, are real PROVEN star material that will put a team on their shoulders and change the destiny of a team. You have seen that this year with the stars that are Pacioretty and Subban???? Gallgher? Yep, true NHL'er that sometimes look overwhelmed to be count on in the 1st line but is a very good player nonetheless. Beau and Eller who still has everything to prove. They might have the "potential" to be so much more...but whether it's their fault, the coach,s fault or both, they are not there yet. Petry? Well yep. Don't care how he's playing right now, this guy is solid. #3-#4 solid, but solid nonetheless. And Markov who is aging and can't sustain top minutes anymore, and Pleks who has proven nothing when it counts the most. You name that lineup as if they were only names without looking at how they actually played in the playoffs and how they are playing nowadays. This is a freakin real test. This IS the playoffs right now. Don't people realize that those guys should elevate their game 'cause if they don't, we're not going to make it? Who is doing it right now? And why would they look better in the playoffs when they rarely were able to? We are an average to good team that might very well be able to be a playoff contender. But it has to NOT be good enough at one point.

 

[Odelein24]

Tony Marinaro about to go on a massive Dale Weise rant after the break. "We got Guy Lafleur on the RW. Well, it's not actually Guy Lafleur.. but he thinks he's Guy Lafleur! And it's not his fault!"

Can't wait to hear what he has to say

edit: Amazing rant

I like Weise, but we're seeing was Tortorella was talking about. He starts to think he's a legit top 6 sniper and stops playing the way that made him successful.

 

[Habs178]

Tony Marinaro about to go on a massive Dale Weise rant after the break. "We got Guy Lafleur on the RW. Well, it's not actually Guy Lafleur.. but he thinks he's Guy Lafleur! And it's not his fault!"

Can't wait to hear what he has to say

edit: Amazing rant

Joe the caller was pretty good. hahahah

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Can people wake up and realize that the "stars" you're talking about aren't Keith, Kane, Benn or whoever?

Price, PK and Max is better than a lot of cup winning teams have man. Two of them are legit superstars with HOF talent and one of them is now considered by many to be the best player in the league. We're not talking about freaking Koivu/Kovalev/Souray here...

You have in there a Pacioretty who still has everything to prove in the playoffs, still has to show that he's physical enough so that while he doesn't have to destroy people, he could not be beaten so easily and be somewhat physical with his frame? And you have a Subban who despite being a star....can be either a star or a total dud. We are NOT, except for Price, are real PROVEN star material that will put a team on their shoulders and change the destiny of a team. You have seen that this year with the stars that are Pacioretty and Subban???? Gallgher? Yep, true NHL'er that sometimes look overwhelmed to be count on in the 1st line but is a very good player nonetheless. Beau and Eller who still has everything to prove. They might have the "potential" to be so much more...but whether it's their fault, the coach,s fault or both, they are not there yet. Petry? Well yep. Don't care how he's playing right now, this guy is solid. #3-#4 solid, but solid nonetheless. And Markov who is aging and can't sustain top minutes anymore, and Pleks who has proven nothing when it counts the most. You name that lineup as if they were only names without looking at how they actually played in the playoffs and how they are playing nowadays. This is a freakin real test. This IS the playoffs right now. Don't people realize that those guys should elevate their game 'cause if they don't, we're not going to make it? Who is doing it right now? And why would they look better in the playoffs when they rarely were able to? We are an average to good team that might very well be able to be a playoff contender. But it has to NOT be good enough at one point.

I can't read your rant through the wall of text you've got here. Use some paragraphs next time.

Bottom line is that you've lost perspective on this team. YES we're struggling but that doesn't mean that we're garbage. The freaking Blackhawks lost ten in a row when they won the cup but you didn't see them sell the farm. (And before you even go there... no I don't think we're as good as the Blackhawks.) Fire the coach, that's a good start. If we can get a scorer... all the better. But this is a good team. Max is streaky but he's also consistently put up good possession numbers and is a top five goal scorer over the past few seasons. You talk like he's garbage... that's not the case.

Not playoff proven? Guess what? Nobody is playoff proven... until they are. I remember all the idiots talking about how Yzerman wasn't "proven" until the day he won a cup, then the same jackasses praise his leadership. As for this being the playoffs right now... that's ridiculous. We're without two of our best players. We saw how good this team was with Price and Gallagher... we were close to invincible with them. With AHL goaltending? Of course we're going to struggle. I'd like to see guys step up more than they have but you're going way overboard here.

Bottom line is that we have a team that is good enough to win a cup. It has to be healthier than it is now and we could use a good coach firing but this team is well positioned to get to the finals this year. Don't lose your perspective because we've gone on a losing streak after some key injuries. There's ZERO chance we'd be in this kind of a slump with Price there.

 

[The Nightman]

It's tough to win games when every forward with the exception of Galchenyuk is looking like a 3rd liner. This team already only has four top 6 forwards, Gally(Injured), Plekachu(Girly mode), Pacioretty(Playing like a Cammalleri without offence), and Galchenyuk(The only player looking like he gives a damn out there). If you look at the top teams around the league there aren't many winning with such a poor group of under performing players.

Eller is a 3rd line C playing out of position, DD is a 3rd line C playing 1st line, Weise is a 3rd-4th line grinder playing first line, Carr and Andrighetto doing well but shouldn't be forced to be relied upon to carry the offence in a top 6 role. This lineup needs a lot of help in the top 6.

 

[Runner77]

There's ZERO chance we'd be in this kind of a slump with Price there.

You're confirming this team can't win without Price.

How does a team that is supposedly primed to do well, fall apart by losing the one player? Take any contending team and remove their best player, do they automatically go on a prolonged slide? Every team sees their best injured. How could it be we depend so much on a single asset? If that's the case, what a house of cards we have.

This is a contending team in your view? What about the poor asset mix, the continued reliance on small players, too many softies, no grit, no size, was that supposed to carry us through? We're getting manhandled. You can only have so many undersized, soft players.

 

[BLONG7]

I think that was the first time I've ever agreed with Simon Tsalikis on TSN690 ever. He was making some good points about Semin getting benched and then released for putting up 4 points in 15 games but DD with 2 points in 17 games with more TOI and PP time gets promoted to the top line and more minutes.

He also said it's time for MT to sit either Pleks or DD to send a message and said Pleks can still play a defensive role so with DD strictly a offensive player he's pretty much useless when not providing offense so it should be him sitting.

I'd be surprised if MT sat DD though even if he deserves it which he does. He seems immune from any punishment from MT even when making mistakes or for poor play while others would be glued to the bench or sitting in the pressbox. You can bet the other players see this favoritism and it pisses them off.

One other thing he said is the DD-Pac-Weise line needs to end and DD and Weise should be on the 3rd line where they belong. Nice to hear Simon make sense for a change.

MT wears da pants, and goes with his instincts...we have to show some respik...

85% of the fans want the guy fired, but...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You're confirming this team can't win without Price.

Win what? The cup? We have no chance without Price.

How does a team that is supposedly primed to do well, fall apart by losing the one player? Take any contending team and remove their best player, do they automatically go on a prolonged slide? Every team sees their best injured. How could it be we depend so much on a single asset? If that's the case, what a house of cards we have.

Take any team (not just one with elite level netminding) and give them AHL quality goaltending and they will struggle. Should we have struggled the way we have? No. But it's been a combination of bad luck and bad coaching. And you can't dismiss the netminding. When you give up a bad goal it's totally deflating. I thought we'd be better and I'm disappointed we haven't stepped up but we're not seeing the true team right now either man.

And we've also made things harder for ourselves to boot. Galchenyuk's on a 5 game point streak right now. How much do we play him? 14 mins a night. That's just shockingly stupid. So sure, we've been unlucky but we haven't done ourselves any favours either. A fifth grader should be able to see this but for some reason our coach can't.

This is a contending team in your view? What about the poor asset mix, the continued reliance on small players, too many softies, no grit, no size, was that supposed to carry us through? We're getting manhandled. You can only have so many undersized, soft players.

Where were you when this team started the year 18-4? Did you think we were a contending team then?

It most definitely is a contending team. This team is coming off consecutive 100 point seasons - while playing BADLY. When we don't play dump and chase we are a much, much better team.

We'll see what happens when Gallagher and Price come back. My guess is that we go back to winning games at a very high rate and many here who've trashed the club will change their tunes very quickly. And if the Habs don't go back to winning, I'll be happy to admit I was wrong.

 

[sampollock]

You're confirming this team can't win without Price.

How does a team that is supposedly primed to do well, fall apart by losing the one player? Take any contending team and remove their best player, do they automatically go on a prolonged slide? Every team sees their best injured. How could it be we depend so much on a single asset? If that's the case, what a house of cards we have.

This is a contending team in your view? What about the poor asset mix, the continued reliance on small players, too many softies, no grit, no size, was that supposed to carry us through? We're getting manhandled. You can only have so many undersized, soft players.

agreed , this team may let in more goals with price gone, but should score the same.

 

[Nynja*]

Take any team (not just one with elite level netminding) and give them AHL quality goaltending and they will struggle. Should we have struggled the way we have? No. But it's been a combination of bad luck and bad coaching. And you can't dismiss the netminding. When you give up a bad goal it's totally deflating. I thought we'd be better and I'm disappointed we haven't stepped up but we're not seeing the true team right now either man.

Dude, cmon, you cant say Condon was giving AHL level goaltending when these are some of the goals he let in.

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/videocenter/?id=2015020392-460-ingame-a
Why is Nordstrom sitting behind both D at 5v5 uncovered?

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/videocenter/?id=2015020417-680-ingame-h
Absolutely terrible D play there

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/videocenter/?id=2015020421-604-ingame-a
2 on 0 giveaway

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/videocenter/?id=2015020458-329-h
How about some support down low? Therrien reverted to his patented "flew the coop" breakout strategy.

Just some examples from the slump, you cant call these "bad goals". Yes, its deflating when the goaltender gives up a bad goal, and there have been a few legit stinkers let in, but how is a goaltender supposed to feel when the skaters are leaving him high and dry? It goes both ways.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

agreed , this team may let in more goals with price gone, but should score the same.

We should score more than we have and there's no excuse for some of the players here. But we shouldn't just judge the team based on a bad stretch where we're without key guys.

Paccioretty is a streaky scorer... always has been. Every year he goes into a slump and people call for his head. Then he starts scoring again and people love the guy.

We haven't played well over the past dozen games but... we haven't played as badly as our record suggests either. Our coach has exacerbated the slump by putting forth DD as our number one while our best player has been used in a 3rd line role. That's an easily correctable situation. Put lines together that make sense and play them accordingly.

Saying we're not a contending team because of a bad streak where we're missing key personel is the very definition of "knee jerk reaction." This is a good team and by the end of the year I expect them to prove it.

 

[Runner77]

Win what? The cup? We have no chance without Price.

Was referring to the current losing skid. Certainly, you need your best to be at their best in the playoffs.

Take any team (not just one with elite level netminding) and give them AHL quality goaltending and they will struggle. Should we have struggled the way we have? No. But it's been a combination of bad luck and bad coaching. And you can't dismiss the netminding. When you give up a bad goal it's totally deflating. I thought we'd be better and I'm disappointed we haven't stepped up but we're not seeing the true team right now either man.

I'd argue that part of that is on Bergevin. If the best player on your team is a goalie, then should you not have a better solution than a couple of AHL goalies with little NHL experience? Should Bergevin not have been more vigilant when Price's first stint on the DL was wrongly assessed?

And we've also made things harder for ourselves to boot. Galchenyuk's on a 5 game point streak right now. How much do we play him? 14 mins a night. That's just shockingly stupid. So sure, we've been unlucky but we haven't done ourselves any favours either. A fifth grader should be able to see this but for some reason our coach can't.

Yeah but, isn't that the same coach that made brilliant decisions when the team was winning?

Where were you when this team started the year 18-4? Did you think we were a contending team then?

I wasn't blinded by the fast start. You've been around the game long enough to know about regression and small sample sizes.

It most definitely is a contending team. This team is coming off consecutive 100 point seasons - while playing BADLY. When we don't play dump and chase we are a much, much better team.

Who decides when we don't dump and chase? This is a team that will make the playoffs, but not a team that will finish among the contenders, and that would be fine, it only matters what they do once they're in.

We'll see what happens when Gallagher and Price come back. My guess is that we go back to winning games at a very high rate and many here who've trashed the club will change their tunes very quickly. And if the Habs don't go back to winning, I'll be happy to admit I was wrong.

There is a difference between thrashing the club and asking about a better asset mix. Size and grit shouldn't be set aside just cause the team is built around speed. And that won't change after Price and Gallagher return.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Dude, cmon, you cant say Condon was giving AHL level goaltending when these are some of the goals he let in.

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/videocenter/?id=2015020392-460-ingame-a
Why is Nordstrom sitting behind both D at 5v5 uncovered?

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/videocenter/?id=2015020417-680-ingame-h
Absolutely terrible D play there

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/videocenter/?id=2015020421-604-ingame-a
2 on 0 giveaway

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/videocenter/?id=2015020458-329-h
How about some support down low? Therrien reverted to his patented "flew the coop" breakout strategy.

Just some examples from the slump, you cant call these "bad goals". Yes, its deflating when the goaltender gives up a bad goal, but how is a goaltender supposed to feel when the skaters are leaving him high and dry? It goes both ways.

I don't think he's been terrible but let's be honest here, he's let in goals that an average goalie would stop. I expect my goalie to make some great saves sometimes. Average goalies can do that.

I'm not blaming this on Condon btw. I'm just saying that when you give up softies like our guys have it's soul crushing. Esp when you're already struggling to win games. Our netminding hasn't helped and it's flat out responsible for the start of this slump in New Jersey. No way that should've gone to overtime to begin with.

Be honest man, it's disingenuous to sit there and say that goaltending hasn't been part of the problem. Of course it has.

It doesn't excuse Max going ice cold or putting DD on the number one or some of the defensive errors we've made... we could and should play better. But we haven't played so badly that we should be 2-12.

 

[Runner77]

agreed , this team may let in more goals with price gone, but should score the same.

A theory I've seen repeatedly mentioned is that forwards don't play with the same confidence when a lesser goalie is in the lineup, they feel more compelled to focus on defense. Plus, it's more likely that a lesser goalie coughs up the first goal and it's a hockey axiom that a team doesn't play the same when they're behind.

 

[Nynja*]

A theory I've seen repeatedly mentioned is that forwards don't play with the same confidence when a lesser goalie is in the lineup, they feel more compelled to focus on defense. Plus, it's more likely that a lesser goalie coughs up the first goal and it's a hockey axiom that a team doesn't play the same when they're behind.

They were scoring 3 goals per game when Price missed 9 games the first time.

 

[FisherKing]

We should score more than we have and there's no excuse for some of the players here. But we shouldn't just judge the team based on a bad stretch where we're without key guys.

Paccioretty is a streaky scorer... always has been. Every year he goes into a slump and people call for his head. Then he starts scoring again and people love the guy.

We haven't played well over the past dozen games but... we haven't played as badly as our record suggests either. Our coach has exacerbated the slump by putting forth DD as our number one while our best player has been used in a 3rd line role. That's an easily correctable situation. Put lines together that make sense and play them accordingly.

Saying we're not a contending team because of a bad streak where we're missing key personel is the very definition of "knee jerk reaction." This is a good team and by the end of the year I expect them to prove it.

You DO remember who the coach is don't you?

 

[Runner77]

They were scoring 3 goals per game when Price missed 9 games the first time.

So that's projectable over a full season?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Was referring to the current losing skid. Certainly, you need your best to be at their best in the playoffs.

I'd argue that part of that is on Bergevin. If the best player on your team is a goalie, then should you not have a better solution than a couple of AHL goalies with little NHL experience? Should Bergevin not have been more vigilant when Price's first stint on the DL was wrongly assessed?

I wouldn't have been. I gotta be honest with you, I thought we'd be okay through this slump. And maybe we would've been with Gallagher. I don't want us investing cash in a backup when we need help elsewhere.

Condon's been good enough to have us win some of these games. I don't blame him for the streak... but he's a backup. Any backup is going to give you average to below average performance. Sometimes you get lucky like NY or Ottawa did, but you can't count on it.

Yeah but, isn't that the same coach that made brilliant decisions when the team was winning?

Being better than he was last year doesn't make him a good coach. It just makes him not as bad.

I was (and still am) happy with the system we've got. Guys are actually skating in with the puck. That's a massive improvement. Line mgmt was better to start the year and has now regressed to what it was.

At the end of the day though... MT always adjusts the wrong way. We go into a slump, what does he do? Does he play the hot center? No. He goes BACK to DD again.

I wasn't blinded by the fast start. You've been around the game long enough to know about regression and small sample sizes.

Right. So look at the past few years with Price in the lineup. Even playing badly we did well. You don't think we can do better with a better system? I do. And that's exactly what we saw to start the year.

Who decides when we don't dump and chase? This is a team that will make the playoffs, but not a team that will finish among the contenders, and that would be fine, it only matters what they do once they're in.

I don't know why we did dump and chase man. I only know it's not effective. All the more reason to dump the coach.

There is a difference between thrashing the club and asking about a better asset mix. Size and grit shouldn't be set aside just cause the team is built around speed. And that won't change after Price and Gallagher returns.

I'm more concerned with adding a prime scorer than size or grit. If we add a big scorer we're going to be very tough to beat.

 

[sampollock]

We should score more than we have and there's no excuse for some of the players here. But we shouldn't just judge the team based on a bad stretch where we're without key guys.

Paccioretty is a streaky scorer... always has been. Every year he goes into a slump and people call for his head. Then he starts scoring again and people love the guy.

We haven't played well over the past dozen games but... we haven't played as badly as our record suggests either. Our coach has exacerbated the slump by putting forth DD as our number one while our best player has been used in a 3rd line role. That's an easily correctable situation. Put lines together that make sense and play them accordingly.

Saying we're not a contending team because of a bad streak where we're missing key personel is the very definition of "knee jerk reaction." This is a good team and by the end of the year I expect them to prove it.

Yes all true, but they still are weak in the top 6, fix that, price comes back, then we may get on track

 

[Cole Caulifield]

scoring 3.5 goals per game up until Therrien shuffled the lineups for no reason

"bad to average"

I absolutely love how you move back and forth from equating the strength of the forward group to all of our offense 100% when it suits you. It doesn't expose your bias at all.