#FIRECHIA

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

It's amazing Toronto has been able to get rid of the following contracts

Lupul
Clarkson
Phaneuf
Kessel (looked like a difficult trade at the time)

We badly need a gm that can creatively move Lucic and maybe others without punishing the team.

Actually it's pretty simple. Just do what Toronto did with Robidas/Lupul/Horton:

Robidas Island

July 1, 2018: The Edmonton Oilers put Milan Lucic on LTIR due to an undisclosed injury to his hockey IQ. He will be paid the full sum of his remaining salary but will be on the shelf indefinitely.

 

[Bangers]

Actually it's pretty simple. Just do what Toronto did with Robidas/Lupul/Horton:

Robidas Island

July 1, 2018: The Edmonton Oilers put Milan Lucic on LTIR due to an undisclosed injury to his hockey IQ. He will be paid the full sum of his remaining salary but will be on the shelf indefinitely.

Mark my words, but sooner or later, Lucic's Scheuermann's disease will be used as an excuse to put him on LTIR

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think his real salary drops to $1 mil for 2020-21; if this is the case, I could see it happening before that season.

 

[Mr Positive]

Mark my words, but sooner or later, Lucic's Scheuermann's disease will be used as an excuse to put him on LTIR

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think his real salary drops to $1 mil for 2020-21; if this is the case, I could see it happening before that season.

of course his condition will be used for that. It was a positive feature of that contract from day 1. At ANY point, Lucic can blame poor play on that condition, and claim he's getting pain, and there's nothing a doctor can do to dispute it.

 

[Aerrol]

Big fat meh.

Whole lot of nothing in 4 years as their GM. Carolina Hurricanes are quietly going to be a year away from tying the NHL record for consecutive seasons without playoffs. A record we tied 2 seasons ago. Seemed to prescribe to the Steve Tambellini mode of management which was "Do nothing and hope it just works out"

Mostly agree, but he made some decent smaller moves - Teravainen for picks, Darling for a third, Kruger for a fifth etc. So not quite as bad.

 

[Spawn]

Mostly agree, but he made some decent smaller moves - Teravainen for picks, Darling for a third, Kruger for a fifth etc. So not quite as bad.

Tervainen was a good add (although it did come with a massive cap dump in Bickell).

Darling has been beyond terrible and Kruger is killing 2 million in dead space in the minors at the moment and likely will next year.

 

[Aerrol]

Tervainen was a good add (although it did come with a massive cap dump in Bickell).

Darling has been beyond terrible and Kruger is killing 2 million in dead space in the minors at the moment and likely will next year.

Admittedly I didn't know Kruger had been dumped, but I know Darling has been bad. I just liked those moves when they happened. But I guess we should be expecting more out of a GM than 'looks good to a fan who casually watches your team'

 

[JarvisFunk]

Mark my words, but sooner or later, Lucic's Scheuermann's disease will be used as an excuse to put him on LTIR

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think his real salary drops to $1 mil for 2020-21; if this is the case, I could see it happening before that season.

It really is amazing how nobody realizes this, or talks about it more. his contract literally comes with a free get out of jail card.

 

[redgrant]

It really is amazing how nobody realizes this, or talks about it more. his contract literally comes with a free get out of jail card.

Please elaborate. How would this happen. Why don't they look at doing it next year?

 

[JarvisFunk]

Please elaborate. How would this happen. Why don't they look at doing it next year?

They wouldn't do it next year because I'm sure both Lucic and the Oilers feel like he has a) a couple more years left and b) can be better than he was this 2nd half of the year.

But Lucic has a had a back condition (Scheuermann's) since birth, one that is known to cause pain and discomfort over time. There is no way he, or the front office intended on him playing the full seven years. Once his play drops off far enough, then it's LTIR, with his back issues.

Im sure both he and the Oilers didn't think this talk would come up so soon, I always figured he'd play at least 4 or 5 years before anything happened on that front.

 

[McGoMcD]

They wouldn't do it next year because I'm sure both Lucic and the Oilers feel like he has a) a couple more years left and b) can be better than he was this 2nd half of the year.

But Lucic has a had a back condition (Scheuermann's) since, one that is known to cause pain and discomfort over time. There is no way he, or the front office intended on him playing the full seven years. Once his play drops off far enough, then it's LTIR, with his back issues.

Im sure both he and the Oilers didn't think this talk would come up so soon, I always figured he'd play at least 4 or 5 years before anything happened on that front.

If this is true it makes the contract even stupder. Lets Trade a 24 year old Hall to make room for a guy with a back disorder..... lol. ya sweet maybe can get out it, like big maybe.

 

[Bangers]

If this is true it makes the contract even stupder. Lets Trade a 24 year old Hall to make room for a guy with a back disorder..... lol. ya sweet maybe can get out it, like big maybe.

I can actually see their line of thinking on this (note that I'm not saying that it's correct).

Hall's contract is up in two years, and I'm guessing that everyone involved assumed that, barring injury, he was going to get a significant increase that may not have fit under the cap with McDavid and Draisaitl's raises (along with the need to pay another defenceman). Plus, Hall will be 29 at that point, and I'm not sure giving a 29 year old a $10+ mil/ year long term contract (without Lucic's 'escape clause') would be the best move.

Either way, I'm guessing they figured they would get Lucic OR Hall for 4 years, then see either Lucic retire/ Hall walk and use the resulting cap space to sign someone else or fill the position internally.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Cannot wait for Chia to trade RNH and Klefbom for pennies on the dollar (Of course they go on with there new team and be legit #1's) and sign JVR and Chara in the offseason.

 

[McDaddy]

I can actually see their line of thinking on this (note that I'm not saying that it's correct).

Hall's contract is up in two years, and I'm guessing that everyone involved assumed that, barring injury, he was going to get a significant increase that may not have fit under the cap with McDavid and Draisaitl's raises (along with the need to pay another defenceman). Plus, Hall will be 29 at that point, and I'm not sure giving a 29 year old a $10+ mil/ year long term contract (without Lucic's 'escape clause') would be the best move.

Either way, I'm guessing they figured they would get Lucic OR Hall for 4 years, then see either Lucic retire/ Hall walk and use the resulting cap space to sign someone else or fill the position internally.

Bolded 1: Draisaitl wouldn't have gotten even close to 8.5m if we kept Hall IMO.
Bolded 2: We wouldn't have Lucic if we kept Hall IMO.

 

[McGoMcD]

I can actually see their line of thinking on this (note that I'm not saying that it's correct).

Hall's contract is up in two years, and I'm guessing that everyone involved assumed that, barring injury, he was going to get a significant increase that may not have fit under the cap with McDavid and Draisaitl's raises (along with the need to pay another defenceman). Plus, Hall will be 29 at that point, and I'm not sure giving a 29 year old a $10+ mil/ year long term contract (without Lucic's 'escape clause') would be the best move.

Either way, I'm guessing they figured they would get Lucic OR Hall for 4 years, then see either Lucic retire/ Hall walk and use the resulting cap space to sign someone else or fill the position internally.

Ya, except for the fact Hall would have been light years better than Lucic while here. Having Lucic with a degenerative back doesn't make anything, it make it appear worse. How was a guy with a degenerative back going to replace Hall exactly.....

 

[Little Fury]

The back stuff is probably a non-starter at least as it relates to the condition Lucic had when he was young. I've seen of Scheuermann's disease suggests it's a degenerative condition.

That said, if they can find a way to bury that deal, they have to and soon.

 

[Bangers]

Bolded 1: Draisaitl wouldn't have gotten even close to 8.5m if we kept Hall IMO.
Bolded 2: We wouldn't have Lucic if we kept Hall IMO.

To #1: Why not? Draisaitl is a big, young power C. Those players don't fall from trees, and they tend to get paid. Going forward, I still see Drai as a more valuable piece than Hall, even with the season Hall is having.

To #2: Of course we wouldn't. But we also wouldn't have Larsson, and I'm guessing the thinking at the time that Larsson + 4 years of $6 mil Lucic was better than 4 years of $6 mil Hall. It hasn't worked out this year, but it's not illogical.

Once again, I'm not defending Chia and I hated the Hall trade at the time, but I can still somewhat see the logic in signing Lucic to a bigger deal, knowing that the team essentially has a 'Get out of jail free card on it.

And to McGoMcD, I'm guessing that they didn't think his game would deteriorate in year 2 of the contract. Even most of the posters here who hated the contract thought it wasn't going to be an issue until next year or the year after.

 

[PaPaDee]

If RNH or Klefbom are traded for mediocre wingers this off-season, I'll be checked out before the home opener.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

If RNH or Klefbom are traded for mediocre wingers this off-season, I'll be checked out before the home opener.

Anything less than a top pairing defenseman as a return is unacceptable.

And no I don't think either of them are worth that, but trading them for scraps is what shitty GMs do.

 

[hjghkabsdkc]

It's amazing Toronto has been able to get rid of the following contracts

Lupul
Clarkson
Phaneuf
Kessel (looked like a difficult trade at the time)

We badly need a gm that can creatively move Lucic and maybe others without punishing the team.

It's pretty amazing the one contract they did retain on, was the best one in Kessel's.

It's also amazing how Chia has f***ed up the cap here, just like he did in Boston.

Lucic - 6m
Russel - 4m
Kassian - 1.9m
Draisaitl - 8.5m

Ain't no overpay like a Chia overpay.

 

[belair]

Ya, except for the fact Hall would have been light years better than Lucic while here. Having Lucic with a degenerative back doesn't make anything, it make it appear worse. How was a guy with a degenerative back going to replace Hall exactly.....

Nobody was replacing Hall. That was never the idea. Just like nobody was replacing Eberle. Those are marquee scoring forwards, who weren't seeing consistent marquee minutes--so their numbers were seemingly average here in the latter stages.

Lucic was signed to be a top six LW for what many assume would be until his back no longer allowed him to be. They expected him to be a consistent 50 point scorer, which he's been his entire career--maybe even 60 with minutes on the top line. It was a signing to cover some of the offensive production lost in the Hall deal over the next few seasons, before either his condition becomes a reason to LTIR him or there's a compliance buy-out with the new CBA. I'm fairly certain they were not banking on a 30 game scoring drought in year two of the deal.

 

[JarvisFunk]

The back stuff is probably a non-starter at least as it relates to the condition Lucic had when he was young. I've seen of Scheuermann's disease suggests it's a degenerative condition.

That said, if they can find a way to bury that deal, they have to and soon.

It's not degenerative, but it still causes increased pain with age and increased physical exertion. It will never go away, It will be an easy cause and effect situation.

 

[McGoMcD]

To #1: Why not? Draisaitl is a big, young power C. Those players don't fall from trees, and they tend to get paid. Going forward, I still see Drai as a more valuable piece than Hall, even with the season Hall is having.

To #2: Of course we wouldn't. But we also wouldn't have Larsson, and I'm guessing the thinking at the time that Larsson + 4 years of $6 mil Lucic was better than 4 years of $6 mil Hall. It hasn't worked out this year, but it's not illogical.

Once again, I'm not defending Chia and I hated the Hall trade at the time, but I can still somewhat see the logic in signing Lucic to a bigger deal, knowing that the team essentially has a 'Get out of jail free card on it.

And to McGoMcD, I'm guessing that they didn't think his game would deteriorate in year 2 of the contract. Even most of the posters here who hated the contract thought it wasn't going to be an issue until next year or the year after.

There is no get out of jail free card. The logic is just terrible. He has a degenerative back issue, that might allow us to put him on LTIR... only problem is the same issue won't make him worth the money. That is just so illogical it hurts. There is no get out of jail free card here. Lucic will want to play many more years where he is not worth the money.

The Larsson deal isn't just illogical now, it was at the time. Every hockey writer thought it was terrible. It isn't just terrible now given some uncertain out comes, it was terrible then and even worse now. Trading Hall for Larsson and signing Lucic given the NHL was heading in a quicker direction is just a horrible disaster and it should cost Chia his job, end of story.

 

[hjghkabsdkc]

People don't realize LTIR doesn't mean the contract just goes away. Toronto has serious cap overages this year and the previous years because of Horton/Lupul.

If you have to have a "get out of jail free" card for a contract you signed, chances are that contract is really really bad.

 

[McGoMcD]

People don't realize LTIR doesn't mean the contract just goes away. Toronto has serious cap overages this year and the previous years because of Horton/Lupul.

If you have to have a "get out of jail free" card for a contract you signed, chances are that contract is really really bad.

Ya, exactly. LTIR has is costs, and if you know some one is going to end up on it??? Like how would that not effect their play, it simply means Lucic was never going to be worth the money (thats called a bad contract). It isn't like the issue would have magically popped up at one instance, it will effects his play for years likely before you can get him on the LTIR.

 

[McDaddy]

This is about as tough to watch as anything gets..