Fertitta : " Hockey struggles south of the Mason-Dixon Line, and it's a fact"

[Melrose Munch]

In light of Jacob's comments posted today, I'll post my Houston related thoughts here.



I still see this as a negotiation of an existing franchise. Can't see the league expanding to 33 this quickly, if he's saying Quebec is challenged then there's no expansion partner right now. Plus with 2 teams in the west with arena issues (and one of them is ownership related), I can see them holding the line at 32 for the time being.

I think the league OK with Fertitta's view of hockey struggling south of the Mason-Dixon line comment. He likely mentioned it during their meeting(s).

if it's the Coyotes in play and no solution on the arena and ownership front, Jacobs is vocal about the market enough and they'll find a way to make a deal work and present the number they want to present. It's on the back burner now and I think will move front once Seattle is given the official green light.

I think the league is going to 33. They want to keep Phoenix and don't want the bad press of losing 2 large markets in 10 years vs the rise of the MLS.

 

[Mightygoose]

I think the league is going to 33. They want to keep Phoenix and don't want the bad press of losing 2 large markets in 10 years vs the rise of the MLS.

If Fertitta is willing to pay the fee, yeah that can make sense as it will carry losses further if they can't get those issues sorted out.

If not, I don't see bad press in the US losing Phoenix to Houston, plus after expansion to Seattle on top of Vegas they're net further ahead from 2011 onwards.

 

[gstommylee]

If Fertitta is willing to pay the fee, yeah that can make sense as it will carry losses further if they can't get those issues sorted out.

If not, I don't see bad press in the US losing Phoenix to Houston, plus after expansion to Seattle on top of Vegas they're net further ahead from 2011 onwards.

Its a bigger issue if US losing Phoenix to quebec especially right before US tv deal goes up for renewal.

 

[Mightygoose]

Its a bigger issue if US losing Phoenix to quebec especially right before US tv deal goes up for renewal.

They lost Atlanta to Winnipeg at the same time the last US TV contract was up for renewal and they still got a record amount.

Saying that, if the Coyotes move then Houston is the likley landing spot.

 

[gstommylee]

They lost Atlanta to Winnipeg at the same time the last US TV contract was up for renewal and they still got a record amount.

Saying that, if the Coyotes move then Houston is the likley landing spot.

Or Atlanta wasn't that successful of a team it made little difference on the needle. Problem its it doesn't look good to have back to back relocations to canada especially before tv deal goes up for renewal.

Its about maximizing the amount they can get. Houston Seattle Vegas is better than Seattle Vegas and quebec and arizona, seattle and vegas.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Or Atlanta wasn't that successful of a team it made little difference on the needle. Problem its it doesn't look good to have back to back relocations to canada especially before tv deal goes up for renewal.

Its about maximizing the amount they can get. Houston Seattle Vegas is better than Seattle Vegas and quebec and arizona, seattle and vegas.

If Fertitta is willing to pay the fee, yeah that can make sense as it will carry losses further if they can't get those issues sorted out.

If not, I don't see bad press in the US losing Phoenix to Houston, plus after expansion to Seattle on top of Vegas they're net further ahead from 2011 onwards.

Its a bigger issue if US losing Phoenix to quebec especially right before US tv deal goes up for renewal.

They lost Atlanta to Winnipeg at the same time the last US TV contract was up for renewal and they still got a record amount.

Saying that, if the Coyotes move then Houston is the likley landing spot.

It's just because atlanta was bad. Normally that would be a huge difference. I should have said 34 teams. The real question is who is the 34th team? Portland? KC? Atlanta?

 

[gstommylee]

It's just because atlanta was bad. Normally that would be a huge difference. I should have said 34 teams. The real question is who is the 34th team? Portland? KC? Atlanta?

They can get into the houston market easily by relocating coyotes there is no need to expand for the sake of expanding. The league got what they want 32 teams balanced league and Seattle. I see no reason for them to expand cause i see it as expanding for the sake of doing so when its more importanted to deal with troubled markets.

 

[Melrose Munch]

They can get into the houston market easily by relocating coyotes there is no need to expand for the sake of expanding. The league got what they want 32 teams balanced league and Seattle. I see no reason for them to expand cause i see it as expanding for the sake of doing so when its more importanted to deal with troubled markets.

But jacobs said expansion in the video. They have no intention of moving the yotes at all. If they didn't he would have said so.

 

[gstommylee]

But jacobs said expansion in the video. They have no intention of moving the yotes at all. If they didn't he would have said so.

That's cause they don't even have 32 teams yet. There is no need to have 34 teams there is no need to have any more than 32 teams.

Here's the problem NHL can't charge Seattle 650 for team then charge Houston for way less than what Seattle paid for. Houston is not getting expansion they'll getting relocation. if NHL insist at price fixing then expansion to where Houston pays less than Seattle not only they should fold the coyotes but pay back Seattle 150m dollars.

 

[Melrose Munch]

That's cause they don't even have 32 teams yet. There is no need to have 34 teams there is no need to have any more than 32 teams.

Here's the problem NHL can't charge Seattle 650 for team then charge Houston for way less than what Seattle paid for. Houston is not getting expansion they'll getting relocation. if NHL insist at price fixing then expansion to where Houston pays less than Seattle not only they should fold the coyotes but pay back Seattle 150m dollars.

The price is whatever the NHL wants, but it also counts how badly they want Houston. There is no new money with a yotes relocation, remember this.

 

[gstommylee]

The price is whatever the NHL wants, but it also counts how badly they want Houston. There is no new money with a yotes relocation, remember this.

You can't charge #32 for 650m then charge #33 for 400m. That's how you get a current owner of a franchise to sue the league saying we pained 650m for #32 spot why is Houston paying 400m for #33.

The coyotes can't stay pat there forever in such a financial mess its not sustainable on a year to year lease. Either relocate them to Houston or fold them.

 

[MNNumbers]

There is actually very little in that interview that is earth-shattering news.....

Here's what he said:
Houston: I like Houston. It's the 5th media market on the continent. (We already knew that this is his idea. He has said it many times. Obviously, since he is talking about the 5th media market, he is thinking about the TV contract. Everyone can have their opinion about that - mine is that the league keep looking for gold where none is to be found - but this is obviously what he is thinking. This is the typical selfish thinking of NHL owners. A bigger TV contract means more for ME, therefore I want it.
Quebec: I'm not excited about Quebec. Obviously, I have to hide my lack of excitement for Winnipeg, because they are already in the league, but I'm not excited about Quebec. 105th media market. See above comment. Quebec does nothing for Jacobs other that give him a share of expansion money, if that's how they get in.

So, the Houston and Quebec comments really mean nothing more than, "I'm greedy and I haven't changed my mind."

The telling comment was that he chose NOT to firmly deny that expansion discussions are going on. Now, who and to where, we have no idea. But, his "I can't really comment on that" reply about relocation MAY mean something important.

We should all be wise and admit that anything else we may think that this means is just reading tea leaves with our own bias.

 

[gstommylee]

There is actually very little in that interview that is earth-shattering news.....

Here's what he said:
Houston: I like Houston. It's the 5th media market on the continent. (We already knew that this is his idea. He has said it many times. Obviously, since he is talking about the 5th media market, he is thinking about the TV contract. Everyone can have their opinion about that - mine is that the league keep looking for gold where none is to be found - but this is obviously what he is thinking. This is the typical selfish thinking of NHL owners. A bigger TV contract means more for ME, therefore I want it.
Quebec: I'm not excited about Quebec. Obviously, I have to hide my lack of excitement for Winnipeg, because they are already in the league, but I'm not excited about Quebec. 105th media market. See above comment. Quebec does nothing for Jacobs other that give him a share of expansion money, if that's how they get in.

So, the Houston and Quebec comments really mean nothing more than, "I'm greedy and I haven't changed my mind."

The telling comment was that he chose NOT to firmly deny that expansion discussions are going on. Now, who and to where, we have no idea. But, his "I can't really comment on that" reply about relocation MAY mean something important.

We should all be wise and admit that anything else we may think that this means is just reading tea leaves with our own bias.

How do we even know if the expansion comment is even about Houston when they haven't even taken to a vote yet whether to grant a team to Seattle or not.

You can still get that bigger tv contract with out having to go to 33 teams to get it.

 

[MNNumbers]

How do we even know if the expansion comment is even about Houston when they haven't even taken to a vote yet whether to grant a team to Seattle or not.

You can still get that bigger tv contract with out having to go to 33 teams to get it.

There WON'T be a bigger TV contract, in my opinion. But, that's what Jacobs is looking at and hoping for. You sound like you are arguing with him. There is no point in agreeing or disagreeing with him. He has all the power, and he is very opinionated. Just read his words for what they actually say:

Houston and Quebec: Not much, really.

Relocation: Hhhmmm..... I wonder what that means.

 

[gstommylee]

There WON'T be a bigger TV contract, in my opinion. But, that's what Jacobs is looking at and hoping for. You sound like you are arguing with him. There is no point in agreeing or disagreeing with him. He has all the power, and he is very opinionated. Just read his words for what they actually say:

Houston and Quebec: Not much, really.

Relocation: Hhhmmm..... I wonder what that means.

Not arguing at Jacobs. I'm trying to under stand the expansion context though. How exactly can the league think expansion Houston when they haven't even decided on Seattle yet? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[MNNumbers]

Not arguing at Jacobs. I'm trying to under stand the expansion context though. How exactly can the league think expansion Houston when they haven't even decided on Seattle yet? That doesn't make sense to me.

There isn't any expansion comment in that interview that I can find.

As to Jacobs: He said long ago, when Vegas was in and Quebec was deferred that he preferred Seattle and Houston. He isn't talking details. He's just talking about what makes financial sense to the owners who already own teams.

 

[gstommylee]

There isn't any expansion comment in that interview that I can find.

As to Jacobs: He said long ago, when Vegas was in and Quebec was deferred that he preferred Seattle and Houston. He isn't talking details. He's just talking about what makes financial sense to the owners who already own teams.

but you said " The telling comment was that he chose NOT to firmly deny that expansion discussions are going on. Now, who and to where, we have no idea. " That's where i am lost.

 

[MNNumbers]

but you said " The telling comment was that he chose NOT to firmly deny that expansion discussions are going on. Now, who and to where, we have no idea. " That's where i am lost.

that should have said relocation. Sorry

 

[Blue Warriors]

There is actually very little in that interview that is earth-shattering news.....

Here's what he said:
Houston: I like Houston. It's the 5th media market on the continent. (We already knew that this is his idea. He has said it many times. Obviously, since he is talking about the 5th media market, he is thinking about the TV contract. Everyone can have their opinion about that - mine is that the league keep looking for gold where none is to be found - but this is obviously what he is thinking. This is the typical selfish thinking of NHL owners. A bigger TV contract means more for ME, therefore I want it.
Quebec: I'm not excited about Quebec. Obviously, I have to hide my lack of excitement for Winnipeg, because they are already in the league, but I'm not excited about Quebec. 105th media market. See above comment. Quebec does nothing for Jacobs other that give him a share of expansion money, if that's how they get in.

So, the Houston and Quebec comments really mean nothing more than, "I'm greedy and I haven't changed my mind."

The telling comment was that he chose NOT to firmly deny that expansion discussions are going on. Now, who and to where, we have no idea. But, his "I can't really comment on that" reply about relocation MAY mean something important.

We should all be wise and admit that anything else we may think that this means is just reading tea leaves with our own bias.

I would like to know where Jacobs get his numbers because I don’t believe Quebec City is the 105th media market( unless you include Mexico?). It’s usually in the 65-70 range, and Houston 6th or 7th.

 

[Melrose Munch]

You can't charge #32 for 650m then charge #33 for 400m. That's how you get a current owner of a franchise to sue the league saying we pained 650m for #32 spot why is Houston paying 400m for #33.

The coyotes can't stay pat there forever in such a financial mess its not sustainable on a year to year lease. Either relocate them to Houston or fold them.

they charged 500m forquebec and vegas and 650m for seattle. you have no case, they can clearly choose whatever they want. NHL doesn't want to fold or move the coyotes so we're stuck there.

 

[MNNumbers]

Tommy. I mentioned expansion in comments referring to Houston vs Quebec only as a compare between the markets. If, and there isn't anything predicting this, they were to expand to only one of them, the existing owners would get their share of the fee. That would be the same in both places, so it's even.

After that, everything, of I am already an owner, favors Houston. Quebec doesn't line my pocket at all. Houston might, for TV.

That's why expansion was mentioned. It has nothing to do with Seattle, nothing to do with anything. Just pretty of the comparison between Houston and Quebec

 

[gstommylee]

But jacobs said expansion in the video. They have no intention of moving the yotes at all. If they didn't he would have said so.

I looked at the interview video and no where does Jocab mention expansion. He asked a question about quebec and gave an answer while compared it to Houston in the process. he was asked about relocation which he said i don't know.

 

[gstommylee]

they charged 500m forquebec and vegas and 650m for seattle. you have no case, they can clearly choose whatever they want. NHL doesn't want to fold or move the coyotes so we're stuck there.

That's a different situation. They charged 500m for Vegas for 31. They didn't charge Seattle 450m for 32 they charged 650m for 32.

I'm saying where the issue is if they charge Houston let say 500m for #33 after charging Seattle 650m for #32 and Houston is a much bigger market than Seattle.

 

[MNNumbers]

I looked at the interview video and no where does Jocab mention expansion. he was asked about relocation which he said i don't know.

And that is the interesting part

 

[gstommylee]

And that is the interesting part

Clearly they are thinking about relocating of a team. Only team there is that is dire enough problem is the coyotes. If no relocation then why would he said i don't know instead of giving the standard company line of " we are happy where the teams are at and see relocation of a team any time soon. "