Fertitta : " Hockey struggles south of the Mason-Dixon Line, and it's a fact"

[Melrose Munch]

In Los Angeles, you can make up for paying rent with a killer local TV payoff. That’s not nearly as true in, say, Portland.

::::

As to the question of Calgary and Arizona, allow me this oddball argument. Is the Saddledome concourse a bit small? Probably. Can that be fixed without a new building? YES. In my opinion, the Flames are advocating for a new arena so that the casual suite attendees don’t have to stand when the Flames score. O, the horror!

And that’s probably why the Flames will move first. Blerg.

I feel the Flames negotiations will get uglier.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

So, does it struggle too much for him to shell out $650M+ still I wonder...since that seems to be the going rate? Or anyone else in Houston for that matter?

 

[MNNumbers]

So, does it struggle too much for him to shell out $650M+ still I wonder...since that seems to be the going rate? Or anyone else in Houston for that matter?

This has been my question for a long time. A. Long. Time.

Is Fertitta merely negotiating? And, if he isn't willing to pay 650M (and I wouldn't be with his net worth at 2.2B or something, and it's a risky move), what is he willing to pay? And, if the ownership of the Coyotes has somewhere around 350-400M already invested, whether that's purchase cost or debt service, at what point is he out of the market?

Also, what happens in Calgary? I've heard half-rumors (which I only believe half-way anyway) that there is internal talk in the NHL of the Flames moving to Houston. But, that's the same argument. And, if there were some sense to it, one would think that the league would have been a little slower to move Arizona to the Central (although it's obviously no big deal to quickly swap the Coyotes and Flames in the event of a move from Calgary).

And, given that there really isn't any big city left to which the NHL wants to go except Houston, then what?

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

This has been my question for a long time. A. Long. Time.

Is Fertitta merely negotiating? And, if he isn't willing to pay 650M (and I wouldn't be with his net worth at 2.2B or something, and it's a risky move), what is he willing to pay? And, if the ownership of the Coyotes has somewhere around 350-400M already invested, whether that's purchase cost or debt service, at what point is he out of the market?

Also, what happens in Calgary? I've heard half-rumors (which I only believe half-way anyway) that there is internal talk in the NHL of the Flames moving to Houston. But, that's the same argument. And, if there were some sense to it, one would think that the league would have been a little slower to move Arizona to the Central (although it's obviously no big deal to quickly swap the Coyotes and Flames in the event of a move from Calgary).

And, given that there really isn't any big city left to which the NHL wants to go except Houston, then what?

Chances the Flames move are slim, they will get get an arena and the reality is there isn't many more options out there that would generate the revenue Calgary does.

 

[shmglsky]

If the Flames relocate to Houston Sportsnet should decrease their broadcast payment by 1/7th.

 

[MNNumbers]

Chances the Flames move are slim, they will get get an arena and the reality is there isn't many more options out there that would generate the revenue Calgary does.

I have no complaint with this at all. I'm merely stating that I heard a half rumor that, when things were the worst between the city and the team last summer, that Bettman was suggesting the possibility of them moving to Houston, if they desired because Calgary City Council was so awful to work with.

I think you are right about the revenue generation. Houston would have potential to reach them, but would have to be marketed perfectly.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Chances the Flames move are slim, they will get get an arena and the reality is there isn't many more options out there that would generate the revenue Calgary does.

Based on what? There's no plans right now.

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

Based on what? There's no plans right now.

The city and the Flames are restarting talks.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The city and the Flames are restarting talks.

And these might go no where again. Also Houston is one of the few places that will make a lot of money for the NHL as well.

Then again, there are other teams in trouble, which should push Calgary down to 3rd on the list.

 

[MNNumbers]

And these might go no where again. Also Houston is one of the few places that will make a lot of money for the NHL as well.

Then again, there are other teams in trouble, which should push Calgary down to 3rd on the list.

Do you know something we don't?

Arizona, obviously. But,
Florida is leased in with a subsidy until 2023 or 2024 at the earliest, with a 40M buyout if they leave then).
Carolina has new ownership.
No other place in the west has issues that I know of.

Who is the other one on your list?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Do you know something we don't?

Arizona, obviously. But,
Florida is leased in with a subsidy until 2023 or 2024 at the earliest, with a 40M buyout if they leave then).
Carolina has new ownership.
No other place in the west has issues that I know of.

Who is the other one on your list?

Ottawa.

 

[PCSPounder]

You're acting like it's a surprise "talks have started" somewhere in the neighborhood of "rumors of Calgary to Houston," eh?

Interesting thing: saw the Fertitta Center last weekend on TV. University of Houston playing (and beating) Oregon. It's the arena that once was Hofheinz Pavilion, used to seat 10,000, capacity was reduced some time back... and after a year renovating on Mr. Fertitta's dime, it opened last weekend as a 7,000-seater. While you can tell the old curve of the place is still there (hey, I spent some time watching Phi Slamma Jamma back in the day), the changes are kind of stark.

It'd be foolish of me to think that Fertitta absolutely wants to control the amount of competition to the Rockets; I don't pretend to know how he thinks. I just saw a rather good piece of work he funded. I could step up to say that I see what he prioritizes.

 

[MNNumbers]

You're acting like it's a surprise "talks have started" somewhere in the neighborhood of "rumors of Calgary to Houston," eh?

Interesting thing: saw the Fertitta Center last weekend on TV. University of Houston playing (and beating) Oregon. It's the arena that once was Hofheinz Pavilion, used to seat 10,000, capacity was reduced some time back... and after a year renovating on Mr. Fertitta's dime, it opened last weekend as a 7,000-seater. While you can tell the old curve of the place is still there (hey, I spent some time watching Phi Slamma Jamma back in the day), the changes are kind of stark.

It'd be foolish of me to think that Fertitta absolutely wants to control the amount of competition to the Rockets; I don't pretend to know how he thinks. I just saw a rather good piece of work he funded. I could step up to say that I see what he prioritizes.

I am not understanding you here, Pounder. Could you clarify what you mean?

Are you verifying 'talks about Calgary to Houston?'
Are you saying, with regard to this smaller Arena, that it is evidence that he doesn't want hockey?

Help me out here.

 

[PCSPounder]

I am not understanding you here, Pounder. Could you clarify what you mean?

Are you verifying 'talks about Calgary to Houston?'
Are you saying, with regard to this smaller Arena, that it is evidence that he doesn't want hockey?

Help me out here.

Oh, gracious, I thought my shorthand worked here by now.

Is it any surprise that "rumors of the Flames to Houston" heat up around the time that talks between the Flames and Calgary begin, or are being considered?

(Now I was about to say that at least one organization was a bit less obvious about this, but it was only last week when the Oakland A's released renderings of a Howard Terminal proposal, followed within 24 hours by Portland highlighting a development agreement between the Port and a group looking to develop an old terminal for a ballpark and accompanying mixed-use development. Oh well.)

BTW, I have a hypothesis about this. I don't think the previous post is necessarily evidence that Fertitta doesn't want hockey. He might simply not prioritize as much... but it's just as possible that he's ambivalent about wanting to "play the game." The game: I'm fairly certain that Paul Allen agreed to be a foil for the NHL to eventually resolve the arena issue in Pittsburgh... and started to do so with Phoenix. Tampa was the foil for at least 3 MLB teams, and was eventually rewarded with the Rays (in, albeit, about the worst way possible). There's a risk for someone playing that game... creating a credibility gap in your home market if you can't deliver the goods.

 

[StreetHawk]

So, does it struggle too much for him to shell out $650M+ still I wonder...since that seems to be the going rate? Or anyone else in Houston for that matter?

With tilman, he owns the rockets and has an arena to play in. OVG needed to secure a tenant before the Citynof Seattle would let them break ground.

Tilman, I doubt is a hockey fan. But he’s a businessman. He wants to get it at the right price.

Standoff as tilman owns the rights to the arena and doubtful anyone builds another one in Houston. So it’s his call if Houston is interested in the NHL.

The days when there were 3 expansion bids for the citynof houston are long gone. NHL got a chance to go back to Seattle after their failed early 90’s expansion bid.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Hockey struggles in Washington and St. Louis?

Nashville and Tampa.

It only struggles if you're an idiot who can't put together a halfway decent team.

 

[voyageur]

I'd rather see the Coyotes in a brand new arena in Milwaukee, where hockey has a footprint. And good TV ratings. Union state. Hockey state.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I'd rather see the Coyotes in a brand new arena in Milwaukee, where hockey has a footprint. And good TV ratings. Union state. Hockey state.

ooookayyyyyy... (Also, we're all Union states down here. They won the Civil War, ya know.)

 

[voyageur]

ooookayyyyyy... (Also, we're all Union states down here. They won the Civil War, ya know.)

The Civil War just was a military test. For the wars on the West (Indian Wars) led by Union generals. And I think that while the war was won the demographics never changed.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I'd rather see the Coyotes in a brand new arena in Milwaukee, where hockey has a footprint. And good TV ratings. Union state. Hockey state.

who's owning the franchise, then, voyageur, and you're going to be playing in a 45 + year old building since the Bucks wanted nothing to do with pro hockey, hence why the existing team isn't playing in the new arena that was just completed.

 

[Wolf357]

Not sure if it’s Geographical or simple luck that breeds success of a Franchise...
Dallas was a instant Stanley Cup Champion after relocation, so was Colorado.
Carolina went to the Cup Finals within 4 years and won the Cup in less than 10... Vegas instant contender going to the final in year one...
How well would these teams have done with on-ice records such as Atlanta, Arizona, and Florida?
Yes Florida made it to the Finals a few years after expansion but have been brutal ever since

 

[Jumptheshark]

not sure why some keep talking about the flames leaving

they make a profit--just not as much if they had a shiney new toy paid for by the tax payers but owned by them

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Report: Rockets drop below luxury-tax line by trading Nik Stauskas, Wade Baldwin, second-rounder to Pacers
The rockets are still trying to save money it seems increasingly unlikely he would even bid for a nhl team

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Report: Rockets drop below luxury-tax line by trading Nik Stauskas, Wade Baldwin, second-rounder to Pacers
The rockets are still trying to save money it seems increasingly unlikely he would even bid for a nhl team

He''s saving millions of dollars by trading players that don't matter. I get the point you're trying to make but it has absolutely no bearing on the NHL.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

He''s saving millions of dollars by trading players that don't matter. I get the point you're trying to make but it has absolutely no bearing on the NHL.

The article said they have been cutting costs since the summer and they have one of the best players in the league and a still useful Chris Paul if they where willing to take on money they chould get someone like Mike Conley all the Houston nhl hopeful’s act like the rockets owner whould want to buy the yotes and be okay with losing money for many years just to put a nhl team in Houston