FaZe Clan is taking over

[GreytWun]

Hahahahshahahahahahahahaha

You are not on that list. Stop the facade because that is undeniable proof you are just woofing.

When you get called out for being some great gamer, and it’s an actual great gamer calling you out, you back it up.

As for the criteria of those archived leaderboards, it’s called “being good”. No matter what you want to portray, you or your made up “clan” are invisible and you have absolutely no credibility in this convo moving forward, just saying.

And no offense, this is coming from an actual top 30 ranked player in a PVP game who was ranked 9th in the last season.

This is complete cringe

Yea you don't get it.. cringe is thinking gamers are atheletes.

 

[Shareefruck]

Well, there’s a disconnect.

Pro atheletes consider esport gamers atheletes, random people on message boards don’t want to admit they are athletes because then every 12 year old with an aimbot would be considered an athelete and it infringes on their definition of what an athelete is.

Then, you get corny “tiddlywinks, they play tiddlywinks so they’re atheletes” logic which is laughable.

Here’s the truth, coming from a .1% player;

Pro gamers are atheletes. Playing a game doesn’t make you an athelete, being really good at it makes you one. Good enough that an actual esport team considers you good enough to rep their brand.

If you cannot comprehend this, there’s nothing that’s going to change your mind.

My advice; get good.

I personally could go either way and don't think that it matters. I'm a very logically anal person and will gladly make a mountain out of every mole-hill, just off of principle alone, yet the idea of e-sports players being called athletes doesn't bother me one bit, to be honest. If it is or becomes the norm, I'd go along with it happily.

However, I do feel that you're confronting (or better yet, not confronting) most of these arguments in a very childish way, and appealing almost exclusively to logical fallacies, ultimately hurting the credibility of the idea more than you're helping it.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Yea you don't get it.. cringe is thinking gamers are atheletes.

Cringe is trying to pass yourself off as some great gamer when it’s proven your not.

Did you really think they don’t keep leaderboards archived? Lol

I gave you plenty of time to back off from that hilariously embarrassing claim, and now here we are.

Are you mad?

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

I personally could go either way and don't think that it matters. I'm a very logically anal person and will gladly make a mountain out of every mole-hill, just off of principle alone, yet the idea of e-sports players being called athletes doesn't bother me one bit, to be honest.

However, I do feel that you're confronting (or better yet, not confronting) most of these arguments in a very childish way, and appealing to a lot of logical fallacies.

Actually, I’m giving my opinion.

I actually came into this thread thinking there would be some great stories about members here actually slapping these kids around in their respective games.

It turns out, you just get a lot of drivel, lies, and silly posturing over rich kids who make a lot of money doing something many here wish they could at that level.

Now, I understand what these kids go thru to play at the level they play at. And I get the assumption nobody here outside of me does. Which is why it’s stupid to try and inform people here since nobody else has that type of understanding.

One person said he beat ninja, big deal. Beat ninja over and over and over like these kids can or beat ninja when ninja was in his prime.

One person said ninja was never good, yet a damn good player himself in sypherPK, who is pretty much the FN historian said he was the best of the best one season and won the biggest prize that year.

Im not even going to get into the kid who lied any more. It’s embarrassing.

There’s just a lot of misinformation and understanding within the esport community when it comes to commons on a message board. Trust me, esports is the direction sports is headed. In three years there will be more money in esports then pro sports and that’s where all the athletes will be.

write it down

 

[GreytWun]

Cringe is trying to pass yourself off as some great gamer when it’s proven your not.

Did you really think they don’t keep leaderboards archived? Lol

I gave you plenty of time to back off from that hilariously embarrassing claim, and now here we are.

Are you mad?

Yea sure

 

[Shareefruck]

Actually, I’m giving my opinion.

I actually came into this thread thinking there would be some great stories about members here actually slapping these kids around in their respective games.

It turns out, you just get a lot of drivel, lies, and silly posturing over rich kids who make a lot of money doing something many here wish they could at that level.

Now, I understand what these kids go thru to play at the level they play at. And I get the assumption nobody here outside of me does. Which is why it’s stupid to try and inform people here since nobody else has that type of understanding.

One person said he beat ninja, big deal. Beat ninja over and over and over like these kids can or beat ninja when ninja was in his prime.

One person said ninja was never good, yet a damn good player himself in sypherPK, who is pretty much the FN historian said he was the best of the best one season and won the biggest prize that year.

Im not even going to get into the kid who lied any more. It’s embarrassing.

There’s just a lot of misinformation and understanding within the esport community when it comes to commons on a message board. Trust me, esports is the direction sports is headed. In three years there will be more money in esports then pro sports and that’s where all the athletes will be.

write it down

If giving an opinion is just ignoring logical points, appealing to authority/popularity, resorting to passive-aggressiveness/nay-saying, and treating irrelevant d*ck-measuring-contests like they're the be-all-end-all, then sure.

 

[Osprey]

My humble advice;

Honestly, "humble" is the last word that I'd use to describe your behavior in this thread. Instead, you've come off as proud, arrogant and disrespectful. Ironically, it's seemingly because you want everyone to respect you. FYI, calling people "randos" who are no good at games and ridiculing one guy's claims are not the way to earn anyone's respect. Nor is repeatedly mentioning that you're in the top whatever percent in Fortnite or have played/streamed with famous Fortniters. I think that most of us who hang out there are a bit too old to be impressed by that. We're long past measuring ourselves by how good we are at video games, so seeing you shamelessly doing it and thinking that you're hurting our pride by saying that we're not good at games is rather laughable. My advice: if you need validation that all of your hours playing amount to a dedication to a sport rather than an obsession with a video game, look for it elsewhere because you won't get it here and you're only making yourself look bad.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Honestly, "humble" is the last word that I'd use to describe your behavior in this thread. Instead, you've come off as proud, arrogant and disrespectful. Ironically, it's seemingly because you want everyone to respect you. FYI, calling people "randos" who are no good at games and ridiculing one guy's claims are not the way to earn anyone's respect. Nor is repeatedly mentioning that you're in the top whatever percent in Fortnite or have played/streamed with famous Fortniters. I think that most of us who hang out there are a bit too old to be impressed by that. We're long past measuring ourselves by how good we are at video games, so seeing you shamelessly doing it and thinking that you're hurting our pride by saying that we're not good at games is rather laughable. My advice: if you need validation that all of your hours playing amount to a dedication to a sport rather than an obsession with a video game, look for it elsewhere because you won't get it here and you're only making yourself look bad.

Oh, so now making money playing video games is an “obsession”?

Are hockey players “obsessed” by playing hockey?

As for humble, I’ve been extremely humble about this and have defended pro gamers.

My qualifications as a great gamer actually give me insight on what it takes to be good. You guys have a hard time with it, not me. I can care less if anybody on this forum respects me, it doesn’t effect me, the people who watch me stream, my sponsors, or my bottom line. Respect doesn’t put food on my table, being good at one particular game, does.

And because of that, when I say most people aren’t good at games, it’s not a knock, it’s just the truth. If you play games for fun, have fun. If you play games competitively, just know unless you train like an athelete and dedicate yourself, the worst pro gamer will always be better then you.

Don’t be impressed, but don’t knock those who are impressed by the stuff these kids can pull off.

 

[Shareefruck]

The most confusing thing to me about this thread is that being an actual professional gamer is getting treated as evidence in favor of e-sports gamers being considered athletes, when it actually serves the opposite purpose.

The only relevance it has is that it introduces the possibility of bias. People were bringing that up AGAINST the argument by implying "Listen, I take gaming seriously too, so I have every reason to be unreasonably in favor of this, yet I am not because of logic/common sense." If you're instead on the other side of that and DEFENDING the idea of professional gamers being athletes, it makes no sense to draw attention to the fact that you're also a pro gamer. It hurts your argument to be like "no you're not, you're not actually THAT biased in favor of the argument, unlike me", it doesn't help it.

If we were instead discussing whether or not homeopaths were real doctors, imagine how foolish it would be for someone to proudly bring up a list of their credentials for being a real life homeopath and gloating about how that proves that they know what they're talking about and should therefore be a particularly trusted source on the disagreement.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

If giving an opinion is just ignoring logical points, appealing to authority/popularity, resorting to passive-aggressiveness/nay-saying, and treating irrelevant d*ck-measuring-contests like they're the be-all-end-all, then sure.

Says somebody who surely never played in a LAN.

I get it, bro. No, I really do.

 

[Shareefruck]

Case in point.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

The most confusing thing to me about this thread is that being an actual professional gamer is getting treated as evidence in favor of e-sports gamers being considered athletes, when it actually serves the opposite purpose.

The only relevance it has is that it introduces the possibility of bias. People were bringing that up AGAINST the argument by implying "Listen, I take gaming seriously too, so I have every reason to be unreasonably in favor of this, yet I am not because of logic/common sense." If you're instead on the other side of that and DEFENDING the idea of professional gamers being athletes, it makes no sense to draw attention to the fact that you're also a pro gamer. It hurts your argument to be like "no you're not, you're not actually THAT biased in favor of the argument, unlike me", it doesn't help it.

If we were discussing whether or not homeopaths were real doctors, imagine how foolish it would be for someone to proudly bring up a list of their credentials for being a real life homeopath and gloating about how that proves that they know what they're talking about and should therefore be a particularly trusted source on the disagreement.

That is….

Unless the person who is a good gamer states, countless times, he’s not as good as these kids who are actual atheletes when it comes to this.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Case in point.

So how can anybody tell anybody how playing in the NHL is if they never played in the NHL?

 

[Shareefruck]

That has zero relevance to the point I'm making. Being a humble homeopath doesn't make the act of using it in favor of the argument any less foolish.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

That has zero relevance to the point I'm making. Being a humble homeopath doesn't make the act of using it in favor of the argument any less foolish.

So actual credibility within this topic doesn’t matter so long as it doesn’t make complete sense?

Is this what your trying to say?

 

[Shareefruck]

So how can anybody tell anybody how playing in the NHL is if they never played in the NHL?

But as a pro-gamer, you have not played in the NHL either. That is my point. It would make a tiny bit more sense (but not really, because it would still be a logical fallacy/appeal to authority) to say "I am a doctor, here are my credentials, therefore, I have a good idea of whether or not a homeopath should be considered a doctor." But it makes no sense to say "I am a homeopath, so I have a good idea of whether or not I should be considered a doctor." That hurts your argument, if anything.

If you're going to appeal to authority, it would make more sense to lean on your whole other "other traditional athletes agree" thing instead.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

But as a pro-gamer, you have not played in the NHL either. That is my point. It would make a tiny bit more sense (but not really, because it would still be a logical fallacy/appeal to authority) to say "I am a doctor, here are my credentials, therefore, I have a good idea of whether or not a homeopath should be considered a doctor." But it makes no sense to say "I am a homeopath, so I have a good idea of whether or not I should be considered a doctor." That hurts your argument.

But, I never said I was a pro gamer.

I said I was good, but never at the consistency of great these kids play at.

 

[Shareefruck]

But, I never said I was a pro gamer.

I said I was good, but never at the consistency of great these kids play at.

Fine, but you're still treating that as if it helps your case (or as if NOT being that hurts the opposite argument), which it really doesn't.

 

[Shareefruck]

So actual credibility within this topic doesn’t matter so long as it doesn’t make complete sense?

Is this what your trying to say?

Ideally, having ACTUAL credibility that's relevant (being a traditional athlete or being a doctor in my example) would just equip you the ability/knowledge to actually address the arguments against something. It wouldn't and shouldn't give you ultimate authority on the topic that should just be accepted on faith alone, simply because we ought to bow before your superior presence or something, though.

However, you don't even really have that. And the arguments that you're making, while potentially being in closer proximity to the subject, haven't even been any more logically convincing or compelling than those of people who only observe it from afar.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Fine, but you're still treating that as if it helps your case (or as if NOT being that hurts the opposite argument), which it really doesn't.

I kind of does,tho.

If I’ve played against these kids, and I have, countless times, I can tell you from first hand experience these kids are on another level.

Randos can’t even get into the lobbies these kids get into ( and that’s speaking specifically on FN) so how can some rando on the internet tell somebody who actually can that their opinion has no bearing?

Is this real life?

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Ideally, having ACTUAL credibility that's relevant (being a traditional athlete or being a doctor in my example) would just equip you the ability/knowledge to actually address the arguments against something. It wouldn't and shouldn't give you ultimate authority on the topic that should just be accepted on faith alone, simply because we ought to bow before your superior presence or something, though.

However, you don't even really have that. And the arguments that you're making, while potentially being in closer proximity to the subject, haven't even been any more logically convincing or compelling than those of people who only observe it from afar.

Now your making assumptions.

Where did I ever say I had ultimate authority? By stating my opinion from experience?

good lord

 

[Shareefruck]

I kind of does,tho.

If I’ve played against these kids, and I have, countless times, I can tell you from first hand experience these kids are on another level.

Randos can’t even get into the lobbies these kids get into ( and that’s speaking specifically on FN) so how can some rando on the internet tell somebody who actually can that their opinion has no bearing?

Is this real life?

Now your making assumptions.

Where did I ever say I had ultimate authority? By stating my opinion from experience?

good lord

You're saying "trust me, I know" rather than "take this as the grain of salt that it is"-- reading that as "ultimate authority" is not unreasonable nor an assumption on my part. Having more anecdotal experience does not inherently make you a greater authority on the subject (that is a logical fallacy), especially if you can't convincingly explain with strong and valid reasoning why something is mistaken based on what you've learned from those experiences (something that actually holds up on its own merits). On the contrary, it only makes you appear more biased, emotion-driven, and untrustworthy.

Having relevant experiences only gives you an advantage/more tools to potentially draw from in an argument, it can't be part of the actual argument itself, and it doesn't mean anything if you can't create an actual better argument as a result of that advantage.

 

[Osprey]

As for humble, I’ve been extremely humble about this and have defended pro gamers.

Humble is not saying how good you are at something and how bad other people are.

Don’t be impressed, but don’t knock those who are impressed by the stuff these kids can pull off.

We're not "knocking" you because you're impressed by what the kids can do. We're criticizing your illogical argument and behavior.

But, I never said I was a pro gamer.

You just said that you have sponsors and that playing a game puts food on your table. That's being a pro gamer.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

You're saying "trust me, I know" rather than "take this as the grain of salt that it is"-- reading that as "ultimate authority" is not unreasonable nor an assumption on my part. Having more anecdotal experience does not inherently make you a greater authority on the subject (that is a logical fallacy), especially if you can't convincingly explain with strong and valid reasoning why something is mistaken based on what you've learned from those experiences (something that actually holds up on its own merits). On the contrary, it only makes you appear more biased, emotion-driven, and untrustworthy.

Having relevant experiences only gives you an advantage/more tools to potentially draw from in an argument, it can't be part of the actual argument itself, and it doesn't mean anything if you can't create an actual better argument as a result of that advantage.

If you are reading that as “ultimate authority “ that’s on you.

I am saying these kids are atheletes.

I am saying to get at that level you have to be great.

Many here are saying they play video games but have never played competitive.

I am saying playing competitive is a whole different animal then playing casual.

Many here say they’re not atheletes

Atheletes consider them atheletes

I am saying, I’ve played in money tournaments, it’s a completely different ballgame, and unless you have, how can you comment on what they do or are?

Simple?

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Humble is not saying how good you are at something and how bad other people are.


We're not "knocking" you because you're impressed by what the kids can do. We're criticizing your illogical argument and behavior.


You just said that you have sponsors and that playing a game puts food on your table. That's being a pro gamer.

1. Humble is stating the obvious

2. Which one of you has ever played in a money tournament? None?

3. it’s called being a popular streamer. Food you tubers have sponsors. Are they pro chefs?

Seriously, am I the only person who knows what they are talking about with this?