FaZe Clan is taking over

[Hammettf2b]

@H3ckt1k your thoughts on this topic? Your'e in the "professional gamer" business.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

 

[Kurtz]

I’ve answered your question, tho.

Pro gamers are athletes. Casual gamers aren’t. Yes, this is hard to comprehend but I’ll work with everyone who wants a clearer definition.

So...you're not completely wrong, and if this board was Chinese you'd be 100% right.

However, as of 2021, pro-gamers are generally not recognized as athletes in most of the world because esports are not classified as sports. However, there are major exceptions:

1. China was one of the first countries to recognize esport as a real sport in 2003, despite concerns at the time that video games were addicting. Through this, the government encouraged esport, stating that by participating in esports, players were also "training the body for China"
2. In 2013, Canadian League of Legends player Danny "Shiphtur" Le became the first pro gamer to receive an American P-1A visa, a category designated for "Internationally Recognized Athletes".
3. In 2014, Turkey's Ministry of Youth and Sports started issuing esports Player licenses to players certified as professionals.
4. The Games and Amusements Board of the Philippines started issuing athletic license to Filipino esports players who are vouched by a professional esports team in July 2017.[83][84]
5. The 2007 Asian Indoor Games was the first notable multi-sport competition including esports as an official medal-winning event alongside other traditional sports, and the later editions of the Asian Indoor Games and its successor the Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games have always included esports as an official medal event or an exhibition event up to now. Moreover, the Asian Games, which is the Asian top-level multi-sport competition, will also include esports as a medal event at the 2022 edition; esports around games such as Hearthstone, Starcraft II, and League of Legends were presented as an exhibition event at the 2018 Asian Games as a lead-in to the 2022 games.[85][86] The 2019 Southeast Asian Games included six medal events for esports.[87]


IOC is also flirting with the idea of including e-sports at some point in the future, but haven't yet.


Now, I came in with the notion that an esport athlete was not an athlete anymore so than a baking competition participant was an athlete (and I'm speaking as someone who was in the top 0.2% in Starcraft in NA, not that it matters other than showing that I don't have an anti-gamer bias), but having done a bit of research, it is more ambiguous than I initially thought.

 

[Kurtz]

Oh, and I knew Faze clan sounded familiar but I just remembered why. A couple of their members got paid to promote scam crypto coins that a lot of their followers lost $$ money on. Those Faze guys didn't seem particularly regretful about it.

 

[Osprey]

If I am the only player good enough to play against these kids, then no offense, my opinion has a little more weight concerning the whole gamer/athlete debate.

Having first-hand experience does give your opinion on the matter a little more weight, but there are several problems.

First, you're not expressing it as your opinion. You're expressing it as fact--"pro gamers are athletes"--and as though what you say carries all of the weight (not just "a little") here.

Second, you're relying on your experience to make your argument for you. People with authority on a topic ought to be able to make good arguments to sway people.

Third, you're repeatedly propping yourself up and being condescending, which makes what you have to say seem born of bias and ego and actually less likely to be trusted.

It's sort of like if a fan declares that his hockey team is going to sweep another in the upcoming round. Sure, he's an expert on his team, which has to be taken into account, but that doesn't make him right, and saying it declaratively and not backing it up with a good argument makes him look more like a homer than an expert.

Here’s a question;

If you are not good enough to play against these kids in a money tournament setting, how can anybody who hasn’t say they’re not athletes?

You're essentially arguing that it's up to these "kids" to decide whether they're athletes or not. In other words, if they want to be called athletes, the rest of us just have to accept it. By the same logic, spelling bee contestants and competitive Rubik's Cube and crossword puzzle solvers, if they decide to be, are athletes just like you pro gamers and you can't say that they're not.

 

[Shareefruck]

You're essentially arguing that it's up to these "kids" to decide whether they're athletes or not. In other words, if they want to be called athletes, the rest of us just have to accept it. By the same logic, spelling bee contestants and competitive Rubik's Cube and crossword puzzle solvers, if they decide to be, are athletes just like you pro gamers and you can't say that they're not.

Actually a pretty amusing alternative view of how the world works. It's like Highlander lore or something. The only way you have a right to challenge the declaration is by allowing yourself to become consumed by it.

 

[PK Cronin]

But, I know enough to get by.

Are you a spelling bee champion? Have you competed in spelling bees on a big stage? Or just say, your middle school in front of the rest of the class? If not, you really can’t offer anything but an opinion.

Casual gamers would get mauled in any tournament against even the worst entrants.

Too bad there’s no auto correct in video games,eh?

Again, that's irrelevant to whether or not something is a sport. A casual Scrabble player would get mauled by someone who routinely plays in tournaments, that doesn't make top level Scrabble players athletes.

You really struggle with logic and reasoning. Appealing to authority is a logical fallacy and that appears to be your only argument. You're the only one good enough to know what it takes, even though you aren't a professional eSports player, so everyone else is wrong. That's not how logic works.

Once again, something being hard or difficult does not make it a sport. It needs to be athletic and a competition. You don't get to just change the definition of words because you want to.

 

[93LEAFS]

Having first-hand experience does give your opinion on the matter a little more weight, but there are several problems.

First, you're not expressing it as your opinion. You're expressing it as fact--"pro gamers are athletes"--and as though what you say carries all of the weight (not just "a little") here.

Second, you're relying on your experience to make your argument for you. People with authority on a topic ought to be able to make good arguments to sway people.

Third, you're repeatedly propping yourself up and being condescending, which makes what you have to say seem born of bias and ego and actually less likely to be trusted.

It's sort of like if a fan declares that his hockey team is going to sweep another in the upcoming round. Sure, he's an expert on his team, which has to be taken into account, but that doesn't make him right, and saying it declaratively and not backing it up with a good argument makes him look more like a homer than an expert.


You're essentially arguing that it's up to these "kids" to decide whether they're athletes or not. In other words, if they want to be called athletes, the rest of us just have to accept it. By the same logic, spelling bee contestants and competitive Rubik's Cube and crossword puzzle solvers, if they decide to be, are athletes just like you pro gamers and you can't say that they're not.

I saw they are launching some lego masters TV show. So, are these professional athletes?

 

[H3ckt1k]

@H3ckt1k your thoughts on this topic? Your'e in the "professional gamer" business.

I am considered a varsity athlete at my school

Nerds are jocks now, deal with it

 

[Hammettf2b]

I am considered a varsity athlete at my school

Nerds are jocks now, deal with it

Back in my day we beat up the nerds!!!

 

[Osprey]

Back in my day we beat up the nerds!!!

Back in my day, we beat up the jocks!!!

Ok, not really, but such false hope was better than no hope!

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Again, that's irrelevant to whether or not something is a sport. A casual Scrabble player would get mauled by someone who routinely plays in tournaments, that doesn't make top level Scrabble players athletes.

You really struggle with logic and reasoning. Appealing to authority is a logical fallacy and that appears to be your only argument. You're the only one good enough to know what it takes, even though you aren't a professional eSports player, so everyone else is wrong. That's not how logic works.

Once again, something being hard or difficult does not make it a sport. It needs to be athletic and a competition. You don't get to just change the definition of words because you want to.

Hmm

So esports isn’t athletic or a competition?

Hold on, here’s Shannon Sharpe and Joe Rogan saying esport players are atheletes;



Here’s Rick Fox saying the same;



These guys are atheletes. I’ve also stated that I streamed with Bryce Harper and he considers esport gamers atheletes.

Now, do I consider the opinion of actual atheletes? Or randos on a message board who have never played in money tournaments yet claim they have without any proof?

I get it, many here have played video games and think because the are familiar with them they are suddenly experts at them. It doesn’t work that way, but ok.

There’s a huge disconnect because of it and the issue is 98% of the members here are not good at video games so they want to bring down the kids who actually are.

Is good gamer shaming a thing, now?

I’ll make it easy, no, you guys are not atheletes, because you are not good at gaming.

I, actually am good at gaming as currently I am a .1% player at FN and have started playing Apex and will move up that quickly also, am not an athelete compared to these kids and unlike everyone here I’ve actually played against them and are currently ranked higher then FaZe’s entire FN team.

These kids are atheletes. It depends on who you actually believe, real atheletes saying they are, or ppl on the internet

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

As I said I don’t care if you believe me or not. I was never an athlete though that’s just silly.

Your right.

You never were an athelete.

Top Player Rankings For Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare - Esports Player Rankings :: Esports Earnings

You were also never a ranked player.

 

[GreytWun]

Your right.

You never were an athelete.

Top Player Rankings For Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare - Esports Player Rankings :: Esports Earnings

You were also never a ranked player.

Sure I wasn’t. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Sure I wasn’t. Whatever floats your boat.

At least you admit it now.

progress

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

My humble advice;

Do not say you are good at a PVP video game without proof or knowledge the internet keeps track of leaderboards dating back to 2004.

 

[Beau Knows]

We're back again to the argument that it's a sport, but only at the top level? That doesn't make any sense, if you play tennis at a recreational level, you're still playing a sport. Nobody would deny that. So why would video games be the only "sport" where only the top players are athletes? It's an incredibly stupid argument.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

We're back again to the argument that it's a sport, but only at the top level? That doesn't make any sense, if you play tennis at a recreational level, you're still playing a sport. Nobody would deny that. So why would video games be the only "sport" where only the top players are athletes? It's an incredibly stupid argument.

If you want to believe that, go ahead.

But the fact remains if pro atheletes consider these guys atheletes then I’ll agree with them over randos on a message board.

I think it has to do with people who played a sport at one time so they can hang their hat on saying they were an athelete even if they never were good enough to make pro.

There is no minor leagues for esport. You either train as an athlete or your just a guy playing video games. That’s why there’s so few you can actually say are video game atheletes.

I mean, it’s easy to say that your good at a game, look at this one guy who lied saying he was a ranked player until I provided the link that proves he was lying.

 

[Shareefruck]

This dispute has been going on for two full months now.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

This dispute has been going on for two full months now.

Well, there’s a disconnect.

Pro atheletes consider esport gamers atheletes, random people on message boards don’t want to admit they are athletes because then every 12 year old with an aimbot would be considered an athelete and it infringes on their definition of what an athelete is.

Then, you get corny “tiddlywinks, they play tiddlywinks so they’re atheletes” logic which is laughable.

Here’s the truth, coming from a .1% player;

Pro gamers are atheletes. Playing a game doesn’t make you an athelete, being really good at it makes you one. Good enough that an actual esport team considers you good enough to rep their brand.

If you cannot comprehend this, there’s nothing that’s going to change your mind.

My advice; get good.

 

[GreytWun]

At least you admit it now.

progress

I was a top player. As i said before I don't care what you believe. Don't be jelly.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

I was a top player. As i said before I don't care what you believe. Don't be jelly.

Who’s jelly?

You wernt a top player, got called out on it, and now look at you.

Have some dignity

I just linked the rankings.

Post proof and stop embarrassing yourself

 

[Beau Knows]

"Dox yourself or else you can't argue that gamers aren't athletes"

 

[GreytWun]

Who’s jelly?

You wernt a top player, got called out on it, and now look at you.

Have some dignity

I just linked the rankings.

Post proof and stop embarrassing yourself

Aww you mad? I was a top player I can't embarrass myself when I know how good my clan and I was. Like I said you are just some random person on the internet I owe nothing to you. If you don't believe me then don't, I don't care. Those people you linked played well after I was done playing the game. Also I don't know the criteria of how they track data nor do I care.

Our clan on gamebattles was one of the top back in 07/08.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Aww you mad? I was a top player I can't embarrass myself when I know how good my clan and I was. Like I said you are just some random person on the internet I owe nothing to you. If you don't believe me then don't, I don't care. Those people you linked played well after I was done playing the game. Also I don't know the criteria of how they track data nor do I care.

Our clan on gamebattles was one of the top back in 07/08.

Hahahahshahahahahahahahaha

You are not on that list. Stop the facade because that is undeniable proof you are just woofing.

When you get called out for being some great gamer, and it’s an actual great gamer calling you out, you back it up.

As for the criteria of those archived leaderboards, it’s called “being good”. No matter what you want to portray, you or your made up “clan” are invisible and you have absolutely no credibility in this convo moving forward, just saying.

And no offense, this is coming from an actual top 30 ranked player in a PVP game who was ranked 9th in the last season.

This is complete cringe