FA/Trade Thread 2014-15 Season V.7 - MOD warning post#877

[The Podium]

If the Leafs make Kessel and/or Phaneuf "available" the return will not be there as it wasn't for Luongo imo.

IIRC the asking price for Lou was - Very good young roster player, top prospect and a 1st. This is around(give or take a little) what a lot of people expect Phil or Dion to land.

Multiple suitors doesn't always relate to good offers though, as Luongo's, Nash's situation's showed.

I take it you don't understand how recapture works... If Luongo retires before his contracts up (he will) the team that traded for him will be on the hook for millions of dead cap for IIRC double the remaining years left on the deal. Loungo was difficult to trade because there is a penalty involved for the team that dealt for him. The Nash deal is closer but remember he had a list of only 3 teams he was willing to accept a trade too.

 

[I Believe]

I take it you don't understand how recapture works... If Luongo retires before his contracts up (he will) the team that traded for him will be on the hook for millions of dead cap for IIRC double the remaining years left on the deal. Loungo was difficult to trade because there is a penalty involved for the team that dealt for him. The Nash deal is closer but remember he had a list of only 3 teams he was willing to accept a trade too.

That and goalies are harder to trade. A team only needs one starter.

Kessel to Nashville makes a lot of sense, though i'm not sure they'd part with Jones. Fiala would be much more likely i'd think.

 

[RLF]

Nice revisionist history. Lu trade value was that when Gillis had power. He overplayed his hand though and in the course of a season, that value was lost. It wasn't that he was "available" and then they couldn't get said price. Plus Luongo saying "I will only drop my NTC for this team" sort of kills any real value.

Nash's situation isn't really a great comparable either. Also sort of handcuffed them with an NTC. But he's also only ever hit 70 once, the only year he hit 40 coincidentally (which it really wasn't). People might hate on Kessel but it doesn't change the fact that the guy is significantly more productive than Nash ever has been. But that doesn't fit the narrative right?

How come every time you disagree it's "revisionist history" on my part? Plus, how am I hating on Kessel? I haven't. But, if hate is judged by the fact that I would trade Phil for the right return...then I guess we have a different version of hate.

Bolded...Since they didn't trade Luongo for the offers on the table at the time...doesn't that show they weren't offered what they were asking for? I think it does.

The point I made was that neither Van or CLB got what they hoped for regarding guys with big money, long term contracts. How is that made up or exaggerated to suit a point btw?
Then I related that to if Toronto made Kessel and Phaneuf available they probably won't get what they hope for either "imo". Revisionist history? ok then.

If the Leafs made them "available" then it would be clear they want to move them and they have 6 and 7 years left on big contracts. I don't believe this is a selling feature and other GM's don't usually overpay when they know you want to move a guy...like Luongo and Nash. You don't think the Leafs will have a "asking price"? How about Lecavalier, B. Richards, Campbell, M. Green just for example. What was the return with their big, long term deals? (Yes, I know Green has not been traded, but that is the point...offers were not there they wanted)

Nash was highly sought after. You implying Kessel will be even more sought after then Nash was, therefore will get a higher return? Being a Leaf fan...then yea, let's trade him if that's the case.

Doesn't both Kessel and Phaneuf also have limited NTC? Are you saying they can't pretty much choose where they want to go not unlike Nash and Luongo? I see you omitted the NTC similarity with Kessel/Phaneuf (partial NTC yes, but still similar situations).

 

[ChuckWoods]

Chuckwoods come out wherever you are!

Allegedly Shanny and Dubas have made their initial decisions on player personelle and are ready to pull the trigger.

They allegedly have a few "loose" deals in place which may transpire prior to the deadline pending on a couple dominos which one has already been partially set in motion.

This team WILL get a face lift, and I have faith in Shanny and Dubas to make it at the appropriate time.

I leave Nonis name out for a reason, I dont believe he is pulling the strings or here for the long haul, so he wont factor in long term decisions.

 

[mydnyte]

Allegedly Shanny and Dubas have made their initial decisions on player personelle and are ready to pull the trigger.

They allegedly have a few "loose" deals in place which may transpire prior to the deadline pending on a couple dominos which one has already been partially set in motion.

This team WILL get a face lift, and I have faith in Shanny and Dubas to make it at the appropriate time.

I leave Nonis name out for a reason, I dont believe he is pulling the strings or here for the long haul, so he wont factor in long term decisions.

hello, and thank you! ...let the speculation begin (my spec... Nylander will replace a moved out C by the end of the season)

 

[RLF]

I take it you don't understand how recapture works... If Luongo retires before his contracts up (he will) the team that traded for him will be on the hook for millions of dead cap for IIRC double the remaining years left on the deal. Loungo was difficult to trade because there is a penalty involved for the team that dealt for him. The Nash deal is closer but remember he had a list of only 3 teams he was willing to accept a trade too.

I understand recapture, but they initially tried to trade him before the lock-out and recapture took place. No?
I was referring to their initial failed attempts to trade him. How did recapture effect there ability to trade him when it didn't exist yet?

 

[080]

Allegedly Shanny and Dubas have made their initial decisions on player personelle and are ready to pull the trigger.

They allegedly have a few "loose" deals in place which may transpire prior to the deadline pending on a couple dominos which one has already been partially set in motion.

This team WILL get a face lift, and I have faith in Shanny and Dubas to make it at the appropriate time.

I leave Nonis name out for a reason, I dont believe he is pulling the strings or here for the long haul, so he wont factor in long term decisions.

Any chance of us finding out what the domino in motion is?

 

[ChuckWoods]

Any chance of us finding out what the domino in motion is?

Allegedly one is internal, and some people seem to believe it could be based on the performance of Nylander. He is in Toronto to see if he can be brought in to take a job sooner rather than later.

The other is based on another team and its personelle changes. I believe that would open two doors of opportunity for the Leafs on the trade front.

This team HAS options, has ideas and discussions in place but even if it sounds vague, these moves arnt soley based on Leaf managment decisions since Shanny and Dubas are willing to wait it out until the deadline, allegedly.

 

[yubbers]

I have my money on kadri. Management's as worried as i am about his upcoming contract demands

 

[Da Murf]

Allegedly Shanny and Dubas have made their initial decisions on player personelle and are ready to pull the trigger.

They allegedly have a few "loose" deals in place which may transpire prior to the deadline pending on a couple dominos which one has already been partially set in motion.

This team WILL get a face lift, and I have faith in Shanny and Dubas to make it at the appropriate time.

I leave Nonis name out for a reason, I dont believe he is pulling the strings or here for the long haul, so he wont factor in long term decisions.

Thanks Chuck.. always good to read a post from you

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I have my money on kadri. Management's as worried as i am about his upcoming contract demands

Or, unlike you, management sees the value in a homegrown player, who has taken great strides in his development, and ships out Bozak, which makes Kadri's cap hit a complete non-issue, and allows for a younger, more skilled player, to grow into a prime role on the team.

Just saying, you're going with "the sky is falling" over the hypothetical cap hit of our best centre, when an older, less skilled guy can be moved for a good return and cap relief.

 

[080]

I have my money on kadri. Management's as worried as i am about his upcoming contract demands

For what though?

That leaves us with Holland, Bozak, Santorelli and Smith. Kadri is the last centre I'd want traded.

 

[mydnyte]

Allegedly one is internal, and some people seem to believe it could be based on the performance of Nylander. He is in Toronto to see if he can be brought in to take a job sooner rather than later.

The other is based on another team and its personelle changes. I believe that would open two doors of opportunity for the Leafs on the trade front.

This team HAS options, has ideas and discussions in place but even if it sounds vague, these moves arnt soley based on Leaf managment decisions since Shanny and Dubas are willing to wait it out until the deadline, allegedly.

by 'this team'... you mean the Leafs i presume

 

[pspot]

Thanks Chuck!

is Kessel the 'face' of the team?

 

[ChuckWoods]

Thanks Chuck!

is Kessel the 'face' of the team?

Yes.

You can win with Phil, if hes surrounded by the right players.

The question is, is it easier to move just Phil? The return would be solid and change direction for Leafs...Or find these perfect pieces that make his entire line a game changer and not a liability?

I know which path I personally take.

 

[Menzinger]

I'd absolutely would LOVE for the leafs to get Courtier. Would move any of the defense, save for Rielly. Considering it's an Eklund rumor though, likely not going to happen.

 

[yubbers]

For what though?

That leaves us with Holland, Bozak, Santorelli and Smith. Kadri is the last centre I'd want traded.

Going after a high pick with him IMO.

So we move Bozak and Naz is our number 1 Centre? He's not a number 1. Sorry. So we're kinda back where we started. A number 2 slotting in at number 1 while a talented youngster develops in the 2-3 slot.

 

[Neil Hamburger]

There are only five players I don't want to see moved: Rielly, Nylander, Kadri, Bernier, and JVR. I'd only want to move them if it's in a package for a potential franchise player.

As far as I'm concerned, everyone else should be up for grabs at this point. I'm excited for the shake-up to begin...

 

[080]

Yes.

You can win with Phil, if hes surrounded by the right players.

The question is, is it easier to move just Phil? The return would be solid and change direction for Leafs...Or find these perfect pieces that make his entire line a game changer and not a liability?

I know which path I personally take.

Do you think that this is a question that management is grappling with as well? (I'm not asking whether Phil is going to be moved -- just are these discussions going on do you think).

 

[jmart21]

Allegedly one is internal, and some people seem to believe it could be based on the performance of Nylander. He is in Toronto to see if he can be brought in to take a job sooner rather than later.

The other is based on another team and its personelle changes. I believe that would open two doors of opportunity for the Leafs on the trade front.

This team HAS options, has ideas and discussions in place but even if it sounds vague, these moves arnt soley based on Leaf managment decisions since Shanny and Dubas are willing to wait it out until the deadline, allegedly.

Sounds to me like you could be hinting at Nylander possibly making a guy like Kadri trade bait.

Who is this other team?

Yes.

You can win with Phil, if hes surrounded by the right players.

The question is, is it easier to move just Phil? The return would be solid and change direction for Leafs...Or find these perfect pieces that make his entire line a game changer and not a liability?

I know which path I personally take.

For me I take the keep Kessel path. It's easier to acquire 2 more top line players than it is to move Phil and acquire 3.

Phil is the best player this team has seen in a long time.

 

[Neil Hamburger]

Sounds to me like you could be hinting at Nylander possibly making a guy like Kadri trade bait.

Who is this other team?



For me I take the keep Kessel path. It's easier to acquire 2 more top line players than it is to move Phil and acquire 3.

Phil is the best player this team has seen in a long time.

It's almost impossible to acquire a cornerstone # 1 D or # 1 C anyway but through the draft (usually the first couple of picks in the draft).

Kessel and Phaneuf make us good enough to never really be in the lottery range, but not good enough to even regularly make the playoffs (let alone challenge for the cup). I think we should trade one of the two of them, and try and improve via the draft.

 

[mydnyte]

There are only five players I don't want to see moved: Rielly, Nylander, Kadri, Bernier, and JVR. I'd only want to move them if it's in a package for a potential franchise player.

As far as I'm concerned, everyone else should be up for grabs at this point. I'm excited for the shake-up to begin...

i'm not attached to any player on our team ...would love to keep Nylander, and Rielly ...the rest couldnt care if we got a equal/fair return.

If we can manage to grab Gibson for example, Bernier would be gone in a heartbeat. ...it always depends on what you can get back.

 

[Menzinger]

Or, unlike you, management sees the value in a homegrown player, who has taken great strides in his development, and ships out Bozak, which makes Kadri's cap hit a complete non-issue, and allows for a younger, more skilled player, to grow into a prime role on the team.

Just saying, you're going with "the sky is falling" over the hypothetical cap hit of our best centre, when an older, less skilled guy can be moved for a good return and cap relief.

Yep, given whose controlling the team now (Shanahan and Dubas) i think a lot of the 'favorites' of the old management group (Nonis, Burke, ect) may get moved.

I'd bet money Bozak is shipped out before Kadri.

 

[pspot]

It's almost impossible to acquire a cornerstone # 1 D or # 1 C anyway but through the draft (usually the first couple of picks in the draft).

Kessel and Phaneuf make us good enough to never really be in the lottery range, but not good enough to even regularly make the playoffs (let alone challenge for the cup). I think we should trade one of the two of them, and try and improve via the draft.

i think the point is that they don't have to find just two additional top line players, they have to find two 1st line players that are perfect fits with him.

spend more time trying to cover his shortcomings or just start from scratch under your own vision (Shanny/Dubas)

Chuck, how involved is Hunter? any chance his brother is spotted for some coaching position with the leafs?

 

[ACC1224]

Yep, given whose controlling the team now (Shanahan and Dubas) i think a lot of the 'favorites' of the old management group (Nonis, Burke, ect) may get moved.

I'd bet money Bozak is shipped out before Kadri.

Agreed, I think most would.