Speculation: FA frenzy over - Now the Dogdays begin

[TheTakedown]

Had an interesting discussion today with an NHL insider. Some of his thoughts on different topics were as follows (not that much specific NYR talk):

1) The Subban trade was really really bad. For Montreal. The Contract for Weber is a real killer that will bite them Big time. He is already slowing down and he will likely go downhill fast. The reason for unloading Subban to Nashville is something very personal. I did not get any details but sounded like it was off the ice and outside locker room issues. But this is my personal reflection, not something he actually said.

This trade screams "pennies on the dollar" to me for Montreal. Am I going too far in assuming that he pissed someone off that he shouldn't have? Maybe an issue with a romantic partner?

2) The Larsson for Hall swap might be a great deal. For Edmonton. Larsson has taken huge steps forward last season and will fill a huge hole with a good contract in Edmonton. Hall has issues. With attitude and training. He will be missed on the ice but - not in the locker room. Edmonton had their eyes on Larsson for a long time. They wanted Hall gone. Yakupov is likely next to go. The Lucic deal will be good for 2-3 years, then a huge risk. He will likely deteriorate fast, but will be a good cop next to MvDavid. Puljujarvi will be a huge hit. Edmonton is not done trading. They will likely get good fast now.

Been getting this vibe for awhile. Chia took all of last year to evaluate that team. Yak is a bust, big time. Any ideas what they unload him for? His value is absolutely tanked at this point.

3) L Eriksson to play with the Sedins was an easy call, but how many good years do the twins have left. Maybe the new train leaves the station while the old two stand still? Big rissk and kinda pointless signing.

Pathetic if you ask me. Vancouver is the next Edmonton at this rate.

4) Detroit has a glutton of forwards, some of them young guys on good contracts. Thinking they will flip 2 for 1 or even 3 for 1 for a defender. He did not think they were players any longer for Nash. There was previous interest but they chose Vanek instead. They are trying hard to unload howard as well. Not easy.

Any word that the Rangers could look at acquiring Howard in order to turn him into an asset? Not sure how long he's locked up for but it's something.

5) Shattenkirk for Nash will not happen. No reason for St Louis to do this. To get value for Nash NYR will need to retain $$$ he thought. Something JG has not been willing to do. Yet. His opinion was that Nash is not a Ranger on opening Day. Will go to a West team, maybe San Jose or Anaheim he thought.

Anaheim and San Jose make a ton of sense. The fomer more than the latter since the Boedker signing (really wanted him on this team). Any ideas what the return could be? Or, even more so, what return JG is actually looking for?

6) Nish in Dallas could be dealt. In fact it is likely he will be.

We should be all over this.

7) He thought personally that Matthews is a very good player but that Laine is better. He understood the politics behind the choice though. Winnipeg has a very special talent. Let's see what they do with it.

8) Losing Hagelin was a big blow to the Rangers this season. He is the kind of guy that really helps the team. JG, GS and GC (he said this exactly) decided to keep Kreider over him for evident cap purposes. They are not at all happy with this decision now and he thinks Kreider might get dealt (sorry Bern). Far too inconsistent. Wants a payday now with longer term. Risky move. There are definitely a lot of takers for him, but so far the offers are a bit underwhelming. Patience is vital here he said. He will get a good return - he thought. If he is dealt. He thinks if they deal Kreider, they will sign Miller long term. If not, both him and Hayes will get bridge deals. Lundqvist is not going anywhere. Neither is Dangerous Dan, although there have been attempts to unload him. No takers.

I'm all for moving Kreider at this point. I'm positive AV was a proponent for keeping Kreider. His oozing over him in the beginning of the season that he could be an elite player screamed favoritism to me (when is the last time Kreider saw a demotion?).

I'm all about signing Miller long term. He seems to have the consistency that makes a good 2nd line player in this league. Great possession driver as well.

Is Hayes guaranteed a bridge contract at this point? Hell I'd wager on a 1 year arbitration-like contract for him and then sign him long term if he performs the following year.

I assumed Dan was staying here. What about Staal? There's no WAY JG lets this team start the season with both on this roster.



Interesting thoughts IMO

Signing out... For now

Thanks so much for this! Putting my responses in red font in the quoted post!

 

[silverfish]

It's silly how much better suited Florida is than the Rangers right now.

I'd swap teams with them in an instant.

 

[darko]

Zucc will be 29 by the time the season starts. He'll be declining by the time we're able to contend again, even in a retool situation.

Maybe he won't be one of the players shuttled, but you need to move someone with value. Zuccarello, Brassard, and Klein are probably the easiest contracts on our team to move. No clauses (except Brassard's 8-team NTC), still good players.

Agree.

I don't want to trade Zucca and Brass but like you said by the time we are contending again they'll be 30/30+ so might as well move them while their value is at it's highest.

 

[DanielBrassard]

#TankForLiljegren

I am up for this. I'll get over the team being bad for a year.

At this point with Girardi and Steal in the top-4. Might be the best course for the team.

 

[silverfish]

Choosing Miller over Kreider would be a major mistake.

 

[GAGLine]

Vrbata would be a stopgap. Sign him to a 1 year deal (or 2), hope he tears it up in the early going and trade him at the deadline.

I have no problem with signing stop-gap players. The issue is replacing Nash with Vrbata and claiming the team can actually compete for a cup.

 

[NYR2007]

Lmao.
Like Florida ?

We're already (and still) better than Florida.

This core played more games than any team the last 3-4 years. A longer offseason may be a blessing in disguise for some of these guys.

I think at worst, we'll see some bounce-back efforts from a bunch of guys (Nash, Girardi, Staal) and growth / production from Hayes, Miller, Skjei, McIlrath, Buchnevich, and continued production from Step, Brass, Zucc and a 25+ goal season from Kreider.

We still have Lundqvist.

We're still a 6th/7th/8th seed at WORST, whether we like it or not. Barring injury to Lundqvist, I don't see this team missing the playoffs.

Florida is only gonna get better ,,, unlike us we are getting worse every year

And I'm tired of hearing about how many games of playoff experience our guys have , yes that is great and all but it doesn't mean anything if the team is a lot worse this year and is only trending down rather then up

 

[darko]

I have no problem with signing stop-gap players. The issue is replacing Nash with Vrbata and claiming the team can actually compete for a cup.

Agree there.

This team isn't competing until we fix the blue line (Staal and Girardi).

 

[silverfish]

I have no problem with signing stop-gap players. The issue is replacing Nash with Vrbata and claiming the team can actually compete for a cup.

True. Because all I did in that scenario was swap Vrbata and Nash. I didn't rebuild the defense to rival Pittsburgh's. I didn't bring the Rangers fourht-line back to relevance. I didn't sign a player who will finally give the Rangers a right-handed option on the PP so teams don't have to only defend one side of the ice against them.

Nope. All I did was sign Vrbata and trade Nash for nothing apparently.

Thank you for so aptly describing my off-season plan. I wish I saved my hands and posted that. Would've saved me a few mins off my inevitable carpal-tunnel demise.

 

[rangers1314]

Pittsburgh/Florida/Washington/Tampa is clear top-4 on paper. Then everyone else. If things fall in place Rangers may be the next best team.

thats best case. The Devils are better now. The Flyers have young talent on the way. Buffalo. This team could miss the playoffs next season.

 

[Trxjw]

What a silly thing to say!

...because we've got so many top-pairing RDs, right?!

Girardi?

Klein?

McIlrath?

Who needs Tyson Barrie when you've already got the dream team?

So because we don't have a top pairing RHD, we should go out and trade for another guy who isn't a top pairing RHD? Brilliant. Sign me up.

 

[NYR2007]

The Rangers don't even have cap space to aquire stop-gap players to sign and trade at dead line for picks / prospects

This team is in trouble in so many ways. It's time for some of you guys to get prepared for not being competive if JG isn't gonna blow up certain parts of roster ...

Yeah we make the playoffs with last seed and will get worse and worse with this so called " re tool "

 

[Mac n Gs]

I don't really think it's that outrageous to believe in the younger players on this team. Stepan, McDonagh, Kreider, Miller, Hayes, Skjei, McIlrath, Buchnevich, Lindberg, Fast all provide unique skill sets and different qualities to form a nucleus that you can build around. If you want to re-tool, build around those players. We're never getting the 1OA pick with Hank in net. We were an absolute tire fire of a team the first 30 games of the season, and he carried us at something like an 115-point season pace.

Hope the next wave of young guys like Gropp, Kovacs, Tambo, Nieves, and Graves can provide good depth throughout your bottom-6 lines and MAYBE 2nd pairing defenseman. Maybe we can develop Clendenning and Paliotta into something more too, but we shouldn't be planning on anything from those two for the future until we see how they perform in Hartford.

It's going to suck ass, but you'll get some really good young pieces for a player like Brassard or Zucc. Klein should have good value, and we should retain on a Nash trade to maximize his value. The moves are there for us to make, we just need to find an opposing GM to make the moves with. It takes two to tango.

 

[darko]

The Rangers don't even have cap space to aquire stop-gap players to sign and trade at dead line for picks / prospects

This team is in trouble in so many ways. It's time for some of you guys to get prepared for not being competive if JG isn't gonna blow up certain parts of roster ...

Yeah we make the playoffs with last seed and will get worse and worse with this so called " re tool "

If Nash is traded you a young player on ELC plus picks/prospects we absolutely can sign a stopgap like Vrbata.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Here's my (probably controversial) re-tool idea.

1. Start with a bang by trading Brassard, Zuccarello, and Klein.

My suggestions would be Brassard to NSH for Kamenev + 1st + something else that I don't know.

Zuccarello to Anaheim for Montour + 2nd. Maybe that's too much for Anaheim, I'm not sure. Just a base here.

Klein to ??? I'm honestly not sure but his contract likely entails we don't need to take any salary back.

You need to strip the difference makers if you're trying to lose games. Hank's likely not going anywhere and the defense is extremely likely to get worse. Brassard and Zuccarello gone devastates the Rangers' offense and that's probably for the better. Klein is the 2nd last reliable veteran defender on the team and will pretty much ensure there's a tumor on every pairing.

2. Sign more grinders. Make the bottom 6 a wasteland of offense.

I love the TOR model of making the team "good" but horrifically devoid of talent, in just such a way that you lose lots of games but not in embarrassing, dehumanizing fashion. So to move forward here, expand on the Grabner/Gerbe signings and add lots of good defensive players that can't score worth a damn. This way, you can load up your good players that you want to keep developing with offensive zone time. Aim for a forward group that looks like this

Miller-Stepan-Nash
Kreider-Hayes-Buchnevich
Grabner-Lindberg-Fast
Gerbe-Hrivik-R. Nash/Jensen

You will very rarely get a goal from that bottom 6 which is exactly the goal here. But, those are all good players that can give offensive players in the top 6 a lot of breathing room. This is important because you don't want them to get embarrassed every night or put them in situations they can't handle.

3. Keep Staal and Girardi.

That hurt to type. But if the goal is to suck, those two will lead the charge. Keep Girardi on the top pair, even if it means murdering our poor captain. I hate to stick a promising rookie with Marc but it'll have to be done. BUT

4. Buyout Girardi or expose him at the end of the year.

Girardi's value is very, very likely never going to recover. So just get rid of him by any means once this season is over. His play can't spill into the years where we want this team to turn around.

5. Literally pray Staal's value recovers.

Staal is an albatross and needs to go just as direly as Girardi does, but his name hasn't totally tanked to that point yet and there's a glimmer of hope that he can be moved still. We literally cannot afford to protect him in an expansion draft and need to do everything we can to drop him. The best hope of that right now though, is to let him play out the season and hope he plays better. His buyout or trade now would be too painful.

6. Sell Nash, Kreider, and Holden at the TDL.

Self-explanatory. Retain on Nash if necessary. I feel strongly that his value will recover this year.

7. Sign Kevin Shattenkirk as a FA

Now that we've been garbage for a year, sign Shattenkirk to make the team a little more bearable to watch. Re-evaluate moving forward, especially depending on how the year actually went.

Not perfect but I think this is the most realistic course of action this team can take to move forward.

Not that different from my own thoughts. I'd be on board with this.

 

[Trxjw]

Here's my (probably controversial) re-tool idea.

1. Start with a bang by trading Brassard, Zuccarello, and Klein.

My suggestions would be Brassard to NSH for Kamenev + 1st + something else that I don't know.

Zuccarello to Anaheim for Montour + 2nd. Maybe that's too much for Anaheim, I'm not sure. Just a base here.

Klein to ??? I'm honestly not sure but his contract likely entails we don't need to take any salary back.

You need to strip the difference makers if you're trying to lose games. Hank's likely not going anywhere and the defense is extremely likely to get worse. Brassard and Zuccarello gone devastates the Rangers' offense and that's probably for the better. Klein is the 2nd last reliable veteran defender on the team and will pretty much ensure there's a tumor on every pairing.

*snip*

Not perfect but I think this is the most realistic course of action this team can take to move forward.

Don't agree with all of it, Rasp, but can tell you put a lot of thought into it. Refreshing to see some original ideas.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Thanks BBKers. Appreciate the info.

I totally understand dealing Kreider because of fearing how extending him long term works out.

It all depends on the return. But for me to not be furious it would have to be pretty substantial. How long has it taken for the NYR to develop a homegrown power forward? Why are they cutting bait on young players while riding vets into the dirt? Not just Staal/G/Nash but the NEXT Staal/G/Nash...

 

[TheTakedown]

So because we don't have a top pairing RHD, we should go out and trade for another guy who isn't a top pairing RHD? Brilliant. Sign me up.

Are you Patrick Roy?

 

[GAGLine]

True. Because all I did in that scenario was swap Vrbata and Nash. I didn't rebuild the defense to rival Pittsburgh's. I didn't bring the Rangers fourht-line back to relevance. I didn't sign a player who will finally give the Rangers a right-handed option on the PP so teams don't have to only defend one side of the ice against them.

Nope. All I did was sign Vrbata and trade Nash for nothing apparently.

Thank you for so aptly describing my off-season plan. I wish I saved my hands and posted that. Would've saved me a few mins off my inevitable carpal-tunnel demise.

You're right, you didn't do either of those things. The defense consists of 3 guys who have never played a full year in the NHL, Marc Staal and Kevin Klein both playing more minutes than they probably should, and some mystery defenseman whom some team is going to be nice enough to trade us for Nash.

Whoever that mystery defenseman is, will he be better than Yandle? Because the defense sucked last year with Yandle. Swapping Girardi and Boyle for Skjei and McIlrath isn't going to suddenly make the defense good. These are young players who are still learning, and I have doubts as to whether McIlrath can ever be more than a 3rd pair dman.

As for the 4th line, Lindberg will start on LTIR and didn't finish the last year at all well. Fast played on the 4th line for a good portion of last year. I like him and think he's a good player for his role, but I don't think he'll be any better than he was last year. Hrivik has played 5 NHL games and Gerbe is undersized and coming off a terrible year.

That lineup is at best a playoff bubble team. But hey, anything can happen in the playoffs, right?

 

[darko]

Choosing Miller over Kreider would be a major mistake.

Both should be keepers.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

So because we don't have a top pairing RHD, we should go out and trade for another guy who isn't a top pairing RHD? Brilliant. Sign me up.

1) Barrie isn't a top pairing RHD?

2) Barrie doesn't make us better?

3) If the answer to #1 is "No," then please name me any defenseman with consecutive 50-point seasons who isn't a "top-pairing D." You can include LD and RD.

4) You're not even specifying a proposal so how can you act like it's automatically a bad "trade" when you have no idea who we'd be trading? Does Barrie just carry negative value in your mind?

None of this makes any sense.

 

[Trxjw]

Choosing Miller over Kreider would be a major mistake.

Eh, I don't know about that. I've been a long-time Kreider supporter, but I mentioned a couple months ago that it might be time to cash in on what Kreids "could be" in the eyes of another team. If a team can give us a piece we need because they think Kreider still has 30 goal potential, I think that is a move you can make with confidence.

The team has some major issues on the blue line, we all know that, but we still lack that puck moving defender. With McD, Staal and Skjei likely penciled in on the left, could the Rangers get a RHD who can move the puck in exchange for Kreider? A guy who isn't quite proven, but has the potential to be a 3/4 guy to build around?

I have a lot more faith in Miller giving us what Kreider does, or even his upside, than I do in one of defenders in the system right now turning into an effective offensive weapon from the back end.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Are you Patrick Roy?

Erik Johnson gets buried with zone starts and tougher competition so Barrie can play against second pairings and lower lines. Barrie is a very good player, but c'mon now.

 

[Trxjw]

Are you Patrick Roy?

Yes.

1) Barrie isn't a top pairing RHD?

2) Barrie doesn't make us better?

3) If the answer to #1 is "No," then please name me any defenseman with consecutive 50-point seasons who isn't a "top-pairing D." You can include LD and RD.

4) You're not even specifying a proposal so how can you act like it's automatically a bad "trade" when you have no idea who we'd be trading? Does Barrie just carry negative value in your mind?

None of this makes any sense.

No, he's not a top pairing defensemen. He's an excellent 2nd pairing defender who is tremendous with the puck on his stick, and well below average without it. I don't need to specify a proposal to realize your "Oh we have so many top-pairing RHD's" response was non-sensical, or to realize you're scrambling to move the goal-posts because you realize that now.

 

[GAGLine]

2) Barrie doesn't make us better?

What are you giving up to get him?