I think G.M.G.M played Chevy Like a Banjo.
He bluffed Chevy into negotiations and extracted 11 spot movement in the 1 st round.
Chevy should have said I do not care who you take on exposed list. -Take Dano and we lose a former 2013 1 st rounder.....or
- Take Enstrom and we gain 6 mill in Cap relief and I will replace him in U.F.A . ( by the way Enstrom says he is not waiving his N.M.C for you if he us selected. )
Let me know who you pick........
Still a chance for Maurice to get Chevy to bring Thorburn back...
If the organization wanted to trade Dano, Vegas would have got him and we would have picked 13th.
Because we would have had to add a pick or a prospect to get Vegas to select Dano instead of Toby.... or Myers if that's how the cookie crumbled.
This way we actually get something back for Dano instead of loosing something to get rid of him
Should'a, would'a, could'a. That was then, this is now. We have a few spare parts in addition to Dano. We have a few needs, an upgrade at 3C and at 3RW would be nice. More picks are never a bad thing to have.
Well we have no way of knowing if Vegas was at all Interested in Dano. All the chatter at the time indicated that they wanted Armia pretty badly. Granted Toby waiving made that moot but I still feel there had to have been an agreement to protect him to get him to waive despite what they say.
Logically I'm inclined to agree with the bolded but I just don't think they would have bare face lied. The promise to 'do what they could' may have been stronger than what they implied. I think that's about it.
Of course we can't know with certainty that they would have been interested in Dano but it seems credible relative to what they got and to their current needs. Alternatively Petan might have looked even better to them because of being waiver exempt if nothing else.
Remember that we also lost a 3rd in that swap of draft positions. We tend to gloss over that. Probably in part because it is a '19 pick. Distance reduces its impact. So how about Dano plus that same 3rd? Need more? OK, I'll throw in Kosmachuk and Gennaro, both. Or make it both Dano and Petan and VGK adds something.
We could go on and on. The point is that we had lots of assets that reasonably should have been attractive to VGK and are just spare parts to us.
I don't want to restart the whole XD discussion. What's done is done and Vesalainen still looks like a good prospect. This is about whether or not VGK would give us anything worthwhile for Dano now. Regardless of what was done then, he looks like a player they could have a good spot for and they have assets we could use. How about Jon Merrill? A very good defense, no offense Dman. He could push Chiarot out of the PB spot now and replace Toby on the 3rd pair next year.
We have plenty of other assets we could have added to Dano to make sure it would happen.
The something we got back for Dano could have been Valimaki or Lily instead of Vesa - so we would have got something.
This way - you are assuming we can get something back for him. He may be waived. He may clear waivers. A lot of good players do at this time of year. We may be stuck with him.
If the organization wanted to trade Dano, Vegas would have got him and we would have picked 13th.
Well it seemed that Chevy was trying to work a larger deal with Vegas but it didn't work out. No real way of knowing who or what was involved.
They org may have lied to protect the player. They have gone out of their way to shield players in the past so that wouldn't be surprising. Toby the selfless hero sounds better than Toby the player who would only waive if he was guaranteed not to be taken. Not saying the org lied or not but that could be a scenario.
I think the org is still very high on Petan and may not hqve wanted anything to do with sending him Vegas' s way. Given how he's started preseason I don't really blame them.
Because we would have had to add a pick or a prospect to get Vegas to select Dano instead of Toby.... or Myers if that's how the cookie crumbled.
This way we actually get something back for Dano instead of loosing something to get rid of him
Vegas was interested in Armia, weren't they? If Enstrom hadn't waived, the Jets lose Armia (and Vesalainen) but gain Valimaki or Liljegren? Or maybe they give Vegas something to sweeten the pot to take Dano - probably not as much as moving down 11 spots (the gap between Armia and Dano seems a lot smaller than Enstrom and Thorbz).
We'll see how it shakes out, I guess.
Why does this erroneous premise continue to crop up?
Here are the two scenarios that the Jets could consider...
Enstrom doesn't waive NMC...
Jets protect 4 D and 4 F, leaving Vegas to choose from Lowry, Armia, Copp and Dano (hint: they wouldn't select Dano).
Enstrom waives NMC...
Jets protect 3 D and 7 F, leaving Vegas to choose from Enstrom and Copp or Dano. I still don't think they take Dano, but regardless the Jets absolutely couldn't risk losing Enstrom and have to go back to Chiarot as their #3 LHD. I really doubt that the Jets wanted to lose Copp, either, but the main issue was protecting Enstrom in this scenario.
Because some people think it makes sense - from both sides.
Dano over Lowry, Copp or Armia? I don't think so. What if the Jets added to Dano? Remember there was a 3rd included in what actually happened. That may not have been enough. Add Petan and Vegas sends something back.
The Jets had to make a deal to protect Enstrom. OK, fine. How much should it take to protect a 33 YO pending UFA whose play has declined substantially? How about we offer to add that 3rd on condition they take Dano?
I really don't want to keep rehashing this but there are just too many potential scenarios to be able to dismiss the concept as easily as you do. Stop being dismissive and I'll stop speculating.
The fact is that Chevy did not get the best conceivable result from the XD. Neither did he get taken to the cleaners. We got a good prospect and didn't lose an awful lot.
Apparently Chevy decided that keeping his roster together was very important. IMO he overrated the value of that because some of that roster was of marginal value to us. It may have been of more value to VGK if it was offered to them.
That's why this premise continues to crop up. If Vesalainen turns into a good player for us it will die out. If he busts, it will come back stronger than ever. Maybe even as strong as Stempniak.
Why would Vegas not want a 22 year old player who has had NHL success? They already had 3 first round picks, I doubt that moving up 11 spots on the draft was that important to them to pass up on young NHL talent. If any sweetner was needed from the Jets side it likely would have been pretty minor. Chevy did say in his interview that the draft pick swap happened at the end when "the possibility arose that we didn't have to lose by anyone". Now we might lose Dano for nothing ( although I don't think he's getting waived, knowing the Jets they'll just leave him in the PB). If Dano is not part of the Jets future plans I hope we can somehow recoup the XD value by moving Dano and Vesalainen for Suzuki or Brannstrom as unlikely as that seems
If Dano isn't better than Abramov, Motte and Hannikainen then his value is much lower than I thought. I think he's clearly above those three, especially for a team that is clearly in a "win now" mode.
I think it's pretty obvious that if Vegas would have accepted Dano instead of the #13 pick swap, Chevy would have jumped at it. That wasn't the leverage McPhee was using. If you recall the rumours out of Vegas before the draft, there were indications that they were targeting Enstrom (per Dreger, I think) or Armia / Lowry (if Enstrom didn't waive his NMC). Why would McPhee let the Jets off the hook by taking a player that was a lower priority for the Jets? He used his leverage to get what he wanted... a move up to #13.
I'm stating the facts of the expansion draft options. You are speculating about deals that weren't made, without any evidence that they would have been considered.
The error I am correcting is the notion that the swap of picks was to protect Dano. There just isn't any factual basis because in any scenario the Jets would have had to expose one or more additional players that they valued more highly than Dano (i.e. Enstrom, Armia, Lowry).
Speculation that Vegas would have taken Dano and something else instead of the #13 has no factual basis. This was a hard nosed negotiation. Chevy placed a very high value on playing Enstrom instead of Chiarot on LD, and on keeping Lowry. McPhee is no dummy, and knew he had leverage.
Still in denial that Chevy was played at the expansion draft? He should've dared McPhee to take Toby and his 6mill cap hit over the much younger Dano (maybe include a small add). Methot was flipped for a future 2nd, fair to say Toby would've returned less/no better. Trading down was an act of weakness.
Part of the cost they paid was for vegas not to take mathias also. Who is better then dano.Its never been just about dano and enstrom.We made a deal that vegas reported after the xd that the only players that the jets had excepted in the negotiations for them to take were stuart pavs or Thorburn.Don't get the Dano love. Guy has shown nothing since he's been here. Might not even make the 4th line. There's no way Vegas would have taken him over Enstrom. Enstroms cap hit is a non factor as they are not near the cap limit.
Why does this erroneous premise continue to crop up?
Here are the two scenarios that the Jets could consider...
Enstrom doesn't waive NMC...
Jets protect 4 D and 4 F, leaving Vegas to choose from Lowry, Armia, Copp and Dano (hint: they wouldn't select Dano).
Enstrom waives NMC...
Jets protect 3 D and 7 F, leaving Vegas to choose from Enstrom and Copp or Dano. I still don't think they take Dano, but regardless the Jets absolutely couldn't risk losing Enstrom and have to go back to Chiarot as their #3 LHD. I really doubt that the Jets wanted to lose Copp, either, but the main issue was protecting Enstrom in this scenario.
How was Copp available Whileee?
I agree, moving from #13 to #24 was more about Enstrom than Dano.